Rollbit fishy daily bonuses? | Bitcointalksearch.org

AHOYBRAUSE

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I dont understand why there is even a discussion here.
As I have written here, your reward is actually good!!

Quote from: AHOYBRAUSE on November 30, 2023, 03:07:51 AM

40$ bonus for 27k wager is actually pretty decent in my eyes.
When playing at stake for example a 27k wager will give you maybe 10-15$ tops in rake back, that's it.

Losses are calculated in the weekly/monthly but with only 350$ in losses that would be MAYBE another 10$, if not less. Ending with 20-25 at stake in this case. So I don't see anything to complain about, even if I am really not a fan of rollbit.

Also, as HHampuz pointed out, the OP's calculation is obviously off. Also "up to" doesn't mean you actually get this %.

Different games have different house edge. Not every slot has 3,5% house edge by the way, you can google that.

Hhampuz

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Meh.

Quote from: holydarkness on December 20, 2023, 06:54:38 AM

Quote from: Sheque on December 19, 2023, 10:05:47 PM

Quote from: holydarkness on December 11, 2023, 05:58:21 AM

[...]

But they do deliver, don't they? They gave you a daily bonus, with a percentage of the house edge in the number between zero to fifty? Thus, "up to"? It'll be a different case if they said "daily bonus from 50%" or "daily bonus at least 50%", of which they'll have to give 50% as the lowest.

Its just straight up disgusting, if you go : up to 50% and pay out 4%, thats absolutely disgustingly misleading.
[...]

But that number is not locked, you're not getting 4% the entire time you're playing. The number is constantly changing depending on so many factors during your play, there are possible scenarios where you'll get more than 4%

holydarkness, this guy does not know basic math. He took all of his wagered divided by the rewards and thinks that is what it's all about. I would not bother with this user as he is refusing to even try and understand how it all works.

holydarkness

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Quote from: Sheque on December 19, 2023, 10:05:47 PM

Quote from: holydarkness on December 11, 2023, 05:58:21 AM

[...]

But they do deliver, don't they? They gave you a daily bonus, with a percentage of the house edge in the number between zero to fifty? Thus, "up to"? It'll be a different case if they said "daily bonus from 50%" or "daily bonus at least 50%", of which they'll have to give 50% as the lowest.

Its just straight up disgusting, if you go : up to 50% and pay out 4%, thats absolutely disgustingly misleading.
[...]

But that number is not locked, you're not getting 4% the entire time you're playing. The number is constantly changing depending on so many factors during your play, there are possible scenarios where you'll get more than 4%

Sheque

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M1cha3lM

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holydarkness

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Quote from: Sheque on December 10, 2023, 08:52:22 PM

Quote from: Mahdirakib on December 06, 2023, 05:38:00 AM

Do you know the exact meaning of "up to"? It doesn't mean that you will receive exactly 50% of the house commission always. You will receive the 50% of the house edge if you loss a big amount with a small wager. Compared to your loss of $343 only, $41 from the daily bonus for $28k wager isn’t bad at all. You are also going to get weekly, monthly, rakeback for that wager and losses.

No it isnt, because they say up to 50% of house edge on wagering, House edge on slots is 3,5% wich means i would get up to 50% of 3,5% of what i wagered.

wich would come down to, 30000 / 100 x 3,5 = 1050, up to 50% of 1050.

While they are paying out WAY less then that(not a 10-20% less). wich in my eyes is false advertisement. wich is a scam.

If i tell people give me 100 euro and i will give you up to 1000% back, and then give them 0.50 cent, that aint right.

Up to 50% means they come in between 0% to 50%, not necessarily have to be exactly 50%. Imagine you're in a Black Friday, where the store gave an "up to 99% discount", does it necessarily means every item are sold at 1% of the real price? No. The discount in the entire store are ranging from 0% to 99%.

Further, just to clarify your calculation, as the representative told you, there are so many factors involved in the bonus. You can't simply calculate them by 30,000 / 100 x 3.5 = 1,050, then multiply them with [up to] 50%.

Quote from: Sheque on December 10, 2023, 08:52:22 PM

Quote from: holydarkness on December 06, 2023, 01:21:55 PM

OP, allow me to ask again because my question here was not answered, what's the scam here? Did they stole, voiding your bets, lock you away from your account, or deny you a winning for no legit reason?

Your case is you're feeling underappreciated for your wager and you thought you're being misled by an up to 50% bonus. The nature of that bonus and the wordings has been explained numerous times. May I suggest you, again, to simply leave rollbit, look for other gambling site and lock this thread? Because unless any of the questions on the paragraph above is a yes, there's no case here, they did nothing wrong thus far.

I feel that if you advertise with a daily bonus of up to 50% of the house edge on wagering and you dont deliver, ur running a scam.
and i understand the part where they say "Up to", but that doesnt make it right when ur not even getting close to that number. the difference between 4% and 50% is ridiculous.

But they do deliver, don't they? They gave you a daily bonus, with a percentage of the house edge in the number between zero to fifty? Thus, "up to"? It'll be a different case if they said "daily bonus from 50%" or "daily bonus at least 50%", of which they'll have to give 50% as the lowest.

Hhampuz

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Meh.

Your math is off @Sheque. That's not how you calculate it.

Sheque

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Quote from: Mahdirakib on December 06, 2023, 05:38:00 AM

Quote from: Sheque on December 05, 2023, 09:10:29 PM

did you even read the post?
its not about the 41 dollars, i have wagered 30000 dollar, and they advertise with "up to 50% of house edge on wagering" wich should be a shit ton more then 41 dollars.

Do you know the exact meaning of "up to"? It doesn't mean that you will receive exactly 50% of the house commission always. You will receive the 50% of the house edge if you loss a big amount with a small wager. Compared to your loss of $343 only, $41 from the daily bonus for $28k wager isn’t bad at all. You are also going to get weekly, monthly, rakeback for that wager and losses.

Quote from: Sheque on December 05, 2023, 09:10:29 PM

i lost 700 yesterday and got 28 dollar for it back. while wagering maybe 1000.

You got more than 50% of the house commission as daily bonus in this case, isn’t it? Casinos won't be able to generate profit if they always give you 50% of the house commission as the daily bonus only by ignoring your gameplay activity (wager and PnL).

No it isnt, because they say up to 50% of house edge on wagering, House edge on slots is 3,5% wich means i would get up to 50% of 3,5% of what i wagered.

wich would come down to, 30000 / 100 x 3,5 = 1050, up to 50% of 1050.

While they are paying out WAY less then that(not a 10-20% less). wich in my eyes is false advertisement. wich is a scam.

If i tell people give me 100 euro and i will give you up to 1000% back, and then give them 0.50 cent, that aint right.

Quote from: holydarkness on December 06, 2023, 01:21:55 PM

OP, allow me to ask again because my question here was not answered, what's the scam here? Did they stole, voiding your bets, lock you away from your account, or deny you a winning for no legit reason?

Your case is you're feeling underappreciated for your wager and you thought you're being misled by an up to 50% bonus. The nature of that bonus and the wordings has been explained numerous times. May I suggest you, again, to simply leave rollbit, look for other gambling site and lock this thread? Because unless any of the questions on the paragraph above is a yes, there's no case here, they did nothing wrong thus far.

I feel that if you advertise with a daily bonus of up to 50% of the house edge on wagering and you dont deliver, ur running a scam.
and i understand the part where they say "Up to", but that doesnt make it right when ur not even getting close to that number. the difference between 4% and 50% is ridiculous.

holydarkness

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OP, allow me to ask again because my question here was not answered, what's the scam here? Did they stole, voiding your bets, lock you away from your account, or deny you a winning for no legit reason?

Your case is you're feeling underappreciated for your wager and you thought you're being misled by an up to 50% bonus. The nature of that bonus and the wordings has been explained numerous times. May I suggest you, again, to simply leave rollbit, look for other gambling site and lock this thread? Because unless any of the questions on the paragraph above is a yes, there's no case here, they did nothing wrong thus far.

Mahdirakib

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Quote from: Sheque on December 05, 2023, 09:10:29 PM

did you even read the post?
its not about the 41 dollars, i have wagered 30000 dollar, and they advertise with "up to 50% of house edge on wagering" wich should be a shit ton more then 41 dollars.

Do you know the exact meaning of "up to"? It doesn't mean that you will receive exactly 50% of the house commission always. You will receive the 50% of the house edge if you loss a big amount with a small wager. Compared to your loss of $343 only, $41 from the daily bonus for $28k wager isn’t bad at all. You are also going to get weekly, monthly, rakeback for that wager and losses.

Quote from: Sheque on December 05, 2023, 09:10:29 PM

i lost 700 yesterday and got 28 dollar for it back. while wagering maybe 1000.

You got more than 50% of the house commission as daily bonus in this case, isn’t it? Casinos won't be able to generate profit if they always give you 50% of the house commission as the daily bonus only by ignoring your gameplay activity (wager and PnL).

Sheque

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Quote from: Hhampuz on December 01, 2023, 04:48:35 PM

Quote from: rohang on December 01, 2023, 04:44:11 PM

Quote from: Hhampuz on December 01, 2023, 11:08:26 AM

Quote from: rohang on December 01, 2023, 10:58:03 AM

Whatever it is, it certainly cannot be more complicated then the provably fair games themselves

I am quite confident that yes, it is more complicated since it's individually calculated. Provably fair is just provably fair across everything, for everyone. One user won't have a more provably fair hash than any other user whereas someone's gambling habits will differ A LOT between all users.

Besides that, just showcasing exactly how they'd calculate rewards would never be a good idea since casinos operate on a customer retention basis and giving your competitors fuel to take those customers from you would basically be suicide.

You make a good point there about customer retention.
Even if they dont disclose full formula its in their interest of 'fairness,transparency' points these casino advertise themselves on , to atleast give some sort of standardised calculator so people dont feel like they getting the short stick

I mean, you can always ask the support of any site you play at and they will give you your pnl and stats over a period of time. These rewards are just like a bonus anyways, no fiat casinos or sportsbook have anything close to what crypto casinos do in terms of rewards. This guy lost $350 and got ~$49 in rewards - that's not a bad deal.

did you even read the post?

its not about the 41 dollars, i have wagered 30000 dollar, and they advertise with "up to 50% of house edge on wagering" wich should be a shit ton more then 41 dollars.

you can say w/e you want, but its ridiculous, i lost 700 yesterday and got 28 dollar for it back. while wagering maybe 1000.

so if you do some calculations, this aint matching at all... its one big ass scam, and im done with that site, i will empty that retarded calendar and never play there again.

And i strongly advice anyone else to stay far away from these greedy criminals.

Sheque

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Quote from: rohang on December 01, 2023, 04:44:11 PM

Quote from: Hhampuz on December 01, 2023, 11:08:26 AM

Quote from: rohang on December 01, 2023, 10:58:03 AM

Whatever it is, it certainly cannot be more complicated then the provably fair games themselves

I am quite confident that yes, it is more complicated since it's individually calculated. Provably fair is just provably fair across everything, for everyone. One user won't have a more provably fair hash than any other user whereas someone's gambling habits will differ A LOT between all users.

Besides that, just showcasing exactly how they'd calculate rewards would never be a good idea since casinos operate on a customer retention basis and giving your competitors fuel to take those customers from you would basically be suicide.

You make a good point there about customer retention.
Even if they dont disclose full formula its in their interest of 'fairness,transparency' points these casino advertise themselves on , to atleast give some sort of standardised calculator so people dont feel like they getting the short stick

Exactly this.

Its absolutely ridiculous that you spend your hard earned money, wagered a shit ton, and then get a shit cashback where they take 80% from to force you to come back every single day,

And on top of that, cant answer a simple question.

There is no way that they can/will pay out the 50% house edge on wagering, so why even advertise with it?

Rollbit is a site that literally doesnt care how they scam their clients, aslong as their pockets are being filled. its absolutely disgusting, and then i havent even talked about the scummy ass calendar they have.

abusing the addiction some ppl have to take even more, greedy fucks.

im done with this shitshow, thats for sure.. i rather burn my money then give more to these criminals.

Hhampuz

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Meh.

Quote from: rohang on December 01, 2023, 04:44:11 PM

Quote from: Hhampuz on December 01, 2023, 11:08:26 AM

Quote from: rohang on December 01, 2023, 10:58:03 AM

Whatever it is, it certainly cannot be more complicated then the provably fair games themselves

I am quite confident that yes, it is more complicated since it's individually calculated. Provably fair is just provably fair across everything, for everyone. One user won't have a more provably fair hash than any other user whereas someone's gambling habits will differ A LOT between all users.

Besides that, just showcasing exactly how they'd calculate rewards would never be a good idea since casinos operate on a customer retention basis and giving your competitors fuel to take those customers from you would basically be suicide.

You make a good point there about customer retention.
Even if they dont disclose full formula its in their interest of 'fairness,transparency' points these casino advertise themselves on , to atleast give some sort of standardised calculator so people dont feel like they getting the short stick

I mean, you can always ask the support of any site you play at and they will give you your pnl and stats over a period of time. These rewards are just like a bonus anyways, no fiat casinos or sportsbook have anything close to what crypto casinos do in terms of rewards. This guy lost $350 and got ~$49 in rewards - that's not a bad deal.

rohang

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Quote from: Hhampuz on December 01, 2023, 11:08:26 AM

Quote from: rohang on December 01, 2023, 10:58:03 AM

Whatever it is, it certainly cannot be more complicated then the provably fair games themselves

I am quite confident that yes, it is more complicated since it's individually calculated. Provably fair is just provably fair across everything, for everyone. One user won't have a more provably fair hash than any other user whereas someone's gambling habits will differ A LOT between all users.

Besides that, just showcasing exactly how they'd calculate rewards would never be a good idea since casinos operate on a customer retention basis and giving your competitors fuel to take those customers from you would basically be suicide.

You make a good point there about customer retention.
Even if they dont disclose full formula its in their interest of 'fairness,transparency' points these casino advertise themselves on , to atleast give some sort of standardised calculator so people dont feel like they getting the short stick

holydarkness

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Quote from: rohang on December 01, 2023, 10:58:03 AM

Quote from: holydarkness on December 01, 2023, 10:10:57 AM

How do you propose they do this, to disclose bonus calculation? I can only imagine so many factors involved in that calculation which made it ever changing.

you are right ,there are certainly many factors involved for sure.

However, as i said , talking about stake here, they have big fairness page where they explain the provably fair implementation as well have a calculator where u can verify results by entering hash,nonce etc.

I think you are taking it way too technical, its probably as simple as them calculating users PnL , the house edge amount his bets generated and his total wager.

Whatever it is, it certainly cannot be more complicated then the provably fair games themselves

Quote from: Hhampuz on December 01, 2023, 11:08:26 AM

I am quite confident that yes, it is more complicated since it's individually calculated. Provably fair is just provably fair across everything, for everyone. One user won't have a more provably fair hash than any other user whereas someone's gambling habits will differ A LOT between all users.
[...]

Hhampuz said some of what I wanted to say, quoted above, about how provably fair is limited.

Provably fair utilize limited factor, it's an absolute, "if this then win, if that then none" you win or you lose, hence a provably fair, it's this or that. Bonus utilize so many factors [even the provably fair itself is technically one of the factor being calculated into their equation], they constantly varies and change depending on the user's activity. One winning or one decision to switch from poker to blackjack to slot will bring different outcome.

I am quite sure I am not taking it way too technical, it is that technical.

You can always prove me wrong though by providing simplest way to calculate users PnL, house edge, and total wager, in a day, where he probably played a lot of game, if you're sure it's that simple and not too technical. The illustration I mentioned earlier is still there, you're free to propose the formula that should be given by live support when that person in illustration asked for the exact formula of his daily bonus.

Hhampuz

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Meh.

Quote from: rohang on December 01, 2023, 10:58:03 AM

Whatever it is, it certainly cannot be more complicated then the provably fair games themselves

I am quite confident that yes, it is more complicated since it's individually calculated. Provably fair is just provably fair across everything, for everyone. One user won't have a more provably fair hash than any other user whereas someone's gambling habits will differ A LOT between all users.

Besides that, just showcasing exactly how they'd calculate rewards would never be a good idea since casinos operate on a customer retention basis and giving your competitors fuel to take those customers from you would basically be suicide.

rohang

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Quote from: holydarkness on December 01, 2023, 10:10:57 AM

Quote from: rohang on November 30, 2023, 02:40:28 PM

Quote from: holydarkness on November 30, 2023, 12:40:14 PM

I don't think that's the reason, so they can reduce it at will. It's more [like the representative explained] it is determined by the system and was calculated by many different factor that they can't specify it down. For example, for user A, the bonus is calculated from 10% of his loss because he's currently losing <10,000 USD, 3% of his wager because he wagered 250,000 USD, and x% of the house edge and other factors. As you can see, his number will constantly change depending on these three factors only, it'll change with the game he played, with the outcome of his bet, and the amount he placed. Can someone really zeroing on the exact formula to calculate a bonus if it kept changing?

These sites highly advertise themselves as being provably fair and have detailed algorithms/calculations as to how their games are fair

If they wanted to disclose the bonus calculations they can easily do so as well

How do you propose they do this, to disclose bonus calculation? I can only imagine so many factors involved in that calculation which made it ever changing.

you are right ,there are certainly many factors involved for sure.

However, as i said , talking about stake here, they have big fairness page where they explain the provably fair implementation as well have a calculator where u can verify results by entering hash,nonce etc.

I think you are taking it way too technical, its probably as simple as them calculating users PnL , the house edge amount his bets generated and his total wager.

Whatever it is, it certainly cannot be more complicated then the provably fair games themselves

holydarkness

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Quote from: rohang on November 30, 2023, 02:40:28 PM

Quote from: holydarkness on November 30, 2023, 12:40:14 PM

I don't think that's the reason, so they can reduce it at will. It's more [like the representative explained] it is determined by the system and was calculated by many different factor that they can't specify it down. For example, for user A, the bonus is calculated from 10% of his loss because he's currently losing <10,000 USD, 3% of his wager because he wagered 250,000 USD, and x% of the house edge and other factors. As you can see, his number will constantly change depending on these three factors only, it'll change with the game he played, with the outcome of his bet, and the amount he placed. Can someone really zeroing on the exact formula to calculate a bonus if it kept changing?

These sites highly advertise themselves as being provably fair and have detailed algorithms/calculations as to how their games are fair

If they wanted to disclose the bonus calculations they can easily do so as well

How do you propose they do this, to disclose bonus calculation? I can only imagine so many factors involved in that calculation which made it ever changing. If you have a good idea to simplify it yet keeping it realistic and appealing, maybe many casino will consider to do that.

Let's make an illustration, let's say someone played today, 1st of December 2023, from 00.00.00-23.59.59, within that time, he played a lot of game, which house edge were as following it [I just throw random numbers] blackjack [5%] 8 times in a row, roullete [7%] 15 times, several slots [2%, 6%, 2.5%] 5, 12, 10, another blackjack [5%] for 8 times, poker [9%] 3 times, different kind of poker [3%] 1 time, another different kind of poker [7%] for another 1 time, bacarrat [12%] 4 time, going back to blackjack [5%] for 20 times.

Certainly, that number also depending on the membership level, but let's say he stayed on that level. Another factor will be total loss, you're free to make up the scenario where he won or loss each of those bets, as well as determining the percentage earned from each result. Let's go with just these three factors and assuming ceteris paribus.

rohang

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Quote from: holydarkness on November 30, 2023, 12:40:14 PM

Quote from: rohang on November 30, 2023, 12:10:08 PM

sites like rollbit,stake etc will never tell you the exact calculation they use to calculate bonuses ;; so that they can reduce these whenever they feel like it.

[...]

I don't think that's the reason, so they can reduce it at will. It's more [like the representative explained] it is determined by the system and was calculated by many different factor that they can't specify it down. For example, for user A, the bonus is calculated from 10% of his loss because he's currently losing <10,000 USD, 3% of his wager because he wagered 250,000 USD, and x% of the house edge and other factors. As you can see, his number will constantly change depending on these three factors only, it'll change with the game he played, with the outcome of his bet, and the amount he placed. Can someone really zeroing on the exact formula to calculate a bonus if it kept changing?

These sites highly advertise themselves as being provably fair and have detailed algorithms/calculations as to how their games are fair

If they wanted to disclose the bonus calculations they can easily do so as well

holydarkness

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Quote from: rohang on November 30, 2023, 12:10:08 PM

sites like rollbit,stake etc will never tell you the exact calculation they use to calculate bonuses ;; so that they can reduce these whenever they feel like it.

[...]

I don't think that's the reason, so they can reduce it at will. It's more [like the representative explained] it is determined by the system and was calculated by many different factor that they can't specify it down. For example, for user A, the bonus is calculated from 10% of his loss because he's currently losing <10,000 USD, 3% of his wager because he wagered 250,000 USD, and x% of the house edge and other factors. As you can see, his number will constantly change depending on these three factors only, it'll change with the game he played, with the outcome of his bet, and the amount he placed. Can someone really zeroing on the exact formula to calculate a bonus if it kept changing?

Topic: Rollbit fishy daily bonuses? (Read 412 times)