Ron Paul: All Bubbles Must Pop, the Sooner the Better

cryptocrusher

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Quote from: amicrypto on December 24, 2018, 10:18:16 AM

Quote from: cryptocrusher on December 24, 2018, 08:02:21 AM

I have mixed opinions on this, it's clear to see where the current system fails and how continuously printing more fiat isn't going to end well but bitcoin or any other alternative isn't proven for a whole economies purposes. The aim should be to increase welfare for everyone in the economy, bitcoin wouldn't stimulate growth, it would most probably have the opposite effect and lead to people hoarding.

I see a lot of so called Bitcoin supporters that thrash fiat money because of the ability of a central institution to make more money out of thin air. What they don't understand is that it is the very reason that the world is currently enjoying the longest lasting bull period without any major depression after the 1920's. Everything is up for debate in the hindsight but we have to accept the fact that these are the very measures that have enabled the governments to infuse money (confidence) into the existing system. The ultimate aim is the welfare of the human race and the entire capital market is currently based on the trust on certain institutions (the trust of getting paid, trust of govt and belief in the entire system).

I understand the capital market and its working and know about the current liability situation of all the governments/institutions and all the whitewashing that has happened and continues to happen in the world. But I also believe that it was the best way to bring such widespread economic prosperity to the masses. And Bitcoin/any other cryptocoin cannot solve this problem (problem of managing growth and money supply).

Very well said, it's easy to see that fiat has its shortcomings but hard to argue with any level of conviction that things with 100% be better off with any alternative. I do also believe that eventually it could all go up in smoke, but I struggle to see how that can be mitigated at this point. It's already too far along in the process so might as well just keep chugging along and live out the good times for as long as they last.

rodalutor

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Quote from: nur rochid on December 24, 2018, 09:27:04 AM

Quote from: rodalutor on December 24, 2018, 07:38:16 AM

Quote from: allthingsluxury on December 19, 2018, 04:16:06 PM

Everything artificial must ultimately return to reality. The sooner the return, the better.

Agreed but not with the sooner the better. If the pattern is only going to be the same again next time, with more artificial growth and another bubble, it's best that those bubbles grow as much as possible and are sustained for as long as possible.

but on the one hand, if it is maintained as long as possible, it means consolidation occurs, and it is actually less attractive to traders. high fluctuations like this are opportunities to earn a lot of money

The article was talking about FIAT rather than crypto but either way, traders would still prefer a bullish market than a bearish one. Lots of traders aren't a sign of success, just good conditions for trading. If you're considering welfare as the no 1 objective then the less corrections the better.

1Referee

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Quote from: Xardasim on December 24, 2018, 05:41:59 PM

What if Bitcoin is not traded for anything? Imagine Bitcoin is the single money for the whole world and the value is always the same. I do not know how this is going to happen but even in the present case if BTC's value is not evaluated with USD, BTC=BTC. Huh

I am hoping for that to eventually happen.

It's okay to use fiat as a benchmark to value goods, because that will give you an indication of real world use versus the value something represents. It's close to impossible to figure out what the value of a Bitcoin unit is if you don't want to use fiat as benchmark. In that case it will probably require some sort of an experimental phase where people trade Bitcoin for goods and from there figure out what a Bitcoin unit should represent in value.

In the end, it's important for people to realize that Bitcoin itself isn't a bubble, its highly speculative market can be due to gamblers and get rich quick noobs. Bitcoin's tech is working, provides security, is digital Gold, processes trillions of dollars worth of transactions per year, will become a much better currency with Lightning, etc.

BitHodler

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Quote from: sana54210 on December 25, 2018, 11:55:12 AM

Bubble just means the market crashing all at once, it doesn't mean its not going to recover. Bitcoin was in a bubble and it crashed down, lets hope it will recover like housing market and amazon.

It will recover. People however stick to their logic of when the price is going up Bitcoin does well, and when it goes down it does bad, which is why most of them refrain from buying in right now.

People buy and sell at the wrong times and never does it seem like they understand where their horrible timing comes from, nor does it ring bells that it may be a better idea to sell when you want to buy and buy when you want to sell.

Just doing the opposite of your gut feeling could already make a big difference, especially this year. People expected $20,000 but got levels near the $3000 mark instead...

Theb

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Why are members talking about Bitcoin here? When Ron Paul is talking about a different matter not directly related to Bitcon. They are generally talking about how the Feds are creating an "artificial boom" on assets through their centralized power especially by interest rates leaving people who are late in joining in at a loss. Ron Paul is only concerned on how they can change how the Federal Reserve works and how they can limit their manipulation to the markets so I wonder why people are assuming that Bitcoin is the "bubble" they are talking about here?

sana54210

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Bubble doesn't really mean something bad, I know because of the tulipmania and it being called a bubble people keep talking about bubbles and stuff bursting but they don't really go away do they ?

I mean look at the dotcom bubble, people called it a bubble and it was a bubble and because of the burst on that dotcom bubble a lot of companies went bankrupt but afterwards there was a lot of companies like amazon who strives to be better and right now making the owner richest man on earth one point. Look at the 2008 housing bubble, prices of houses tripled in couple years and everyone took out loans to buy houses and their value dropped but do you know what happened afterwards ?

People who had money during that time bought houses for cheap and now made a ton of returns. Bubble just means the market crashing all at once, it doesn't mean its not going to recover. Bitcoin was in a bubble and it crashed down, lets hope it will recover like housing market and amazon.

ecnalubma

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Bitcoin might be the most exciting bubble in the History with a lot of cycles. Bubble just evolved over years and it’s getting more and more interesting as new breed of investors getting involved. As people seek new alternative and fast return investment new bubbles will emerge from out of nowhere, but Bitcoin is typically not an ordinary one.

ephybtctalk

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you are absolutly right. BTC is a bubble.........next bubble formation is imminent

Xardasim

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Quote from: Ozero on December 24, 2018, 05:59:33 AM

I agree with this statement. Bitcoin manifests itself as a financial bubble and in this regard is also no exception. This has partly happened throughout this year. The fall of Bitcoin to the current price had a very sobering effect on those who unconditionally believed in its constant rise in price. Now it is hardly possible to repeat this situation. Bitcoin holders will already partially withdraw their funds from Bitcoin, if it again begins to rise sharply in price. At the same time, its price should already fall rapidly. Thus, the bitcoin bubble will no longer grow so quickly.

What if Bitcoin is not traded for anything? Imagine Bitcoin is the single money for the whole world and the value is always the same. I do not know how this is going to happen but even in the present case if BTC's value is not evaluated with USD, BTC=BTC. Huh

avikz

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Quote from: allthingsluxury on December 19, 2018, 04:16:06 PM

By manipulating interest rates and by generating money out-of-thin-air, the Fed creates an artificial boom. Everything artificial must ultimately return to reality. The sooner the return, the better.

What you are suggesting is that Fed Reserve is playing with their own financial eco system. It's easier said than done mate! Understand one fact that no economy can make money out of thin air. There is a process and every country follows that. If a country prints money out of thin air, the economy will collapse beyond your worst imagination. I hope the below article can help you to understand,

https://www.wisdomtimes.com/blog/printing-money-can-a-country-print-money-and-get-rich/

Nowadays, fiat currency is majorly backed up by debt along with few other backup assets. That's where China is trying to become the next superpower by giving out loans to small and needy countries. I disagree with the whole statement here!

Ewinsane

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The reason why bubbles should burst right away is that after a bubble we start to recover. After 2008 we have seen one of the most promising and profiting stock options we can dream of. Making 20% a year since those days has been quite easy to achieve whereas normally 20% every year would mean you are as good as warren buffet, only difference is he managed to do that over the span of 50 years whereas it was only easy to achieve for about 8 or 9 years.

Now bubbles happen, there is no way of stopping them and things get too ahead to stop sometimes I get that, I wish there was never any bubbles but it happens, however if a bubble lasts for years than we can't really see what will happen when they burst and it just leads us to worse fall, the higher it is the bigger the fall. So, if it bursts quickly at least we can start the recovering process a lot quicker.

amicrypto

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Quote from: cryptocrusher on December 24, 2018, 08:02:21 AM

I have mixed opinions on this, it's clear to see where the current system fails and how continuously printing more fiat isn't going to end well but bitcoin or any other alternative isn't proven for a whole economies purposes. The aim should be to increase welfare for everyone in the economy, bitcoin wouldn't stimulate growth, it would most probably have the opposite effect and lead to people hoarding.

I see a lot of so called Bitcoin supporters that thrash fiat money because of the ability of a central institution to make more money out of thin air. What they don't understand is that it is the very reason that the world is currently enjoying the longest lasting bull period without any major depression after the 1920's. Everything is up for debate in the hindsight but we have to accept the fact that these are the very measures that have enabled the governments to infuse money (confidence) into the existing system. The ultimate aim is the welfare of the human race and the entire capital market is currently based on the trust on certain institutions (the trust of getting paid, trust of govt and belief in the entire system).

I understand the capital market and its working and know about the current liability situation of all the governments/institutions and all the whitewashing that has happened and continues to happen in the world. But I also believe that it was the best way to bring such widespread economic prosperity to the masses. And Bitcoin/any other cryptocoin cannot solve this problem (problem of managing growth and money supply).

nur rochid

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Quote from: rodalutor on December 24, 2018, 07:38:16 AM

Quote from: allthingsluxury on December 19, 2018, 04:16:06 PM

Everything artificial must ultimately return to reality. The sooner the return, the better.

Agreed but not with the sooner the better. If the pattern is only going to be the same again next time, with more artificial growth and another bubble, it's best that those bubbles grow as much as possible and are sustained for as long as possible.

but on the one hand, if it is maintained as long as possible, it means consolidation occurs, and it is actually less attractive to traders. high fluctuations like this are opportunities to earn a lot of money

sinkfish

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short pain is better than long. let it be done, pick up and continue the works. no point go around with old.

cryptocrusher

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I have mixed opinions on this, it's clear to see where the current system fails and how continuously printing more fiat isn't going to end well but bitcoin or any other alternative isn't proven for a whole economies purposes. The aim should be to increase welfare for everyone in the economy, bitcoin wouldn't stimulate growth, it would most probably have the opposite effect and lead to people hoarding.

rodalutor

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Activity: 364

Merit: 105

WPP ENERGY - BACKED ASSET GREEN ENERGY TOKEN

Quote from: allthingsluxury on December 19, 2018, 04:16:06 PM

Everything artificial must ultimately return to reality. The sooner the return, the better.

Agreed but not with the sooner the better. If the pattern is only going to be the same again next time, with more artificial growth and another bubble, it's best that those bubbles grow as much as possible and are sustained for as long as possible.

jjjfff

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Crypto.BI

Problem is we're looking at a U$ 200 trillion bubble here.

The debt is unpayable. It's nonexistent money they printed. Nobody's going to pay all this debt, ever.

If this bubble bursts, it's the end of capitalism as we know it.

HODL2090

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No market ever goes constantly in one direction. Some might not bubble up to unsustainable levels but cycles of pumps and dumps are prevalent in any market.
In relation to bitcoin, i believe we are yet to know the true value of one bitcoin. So i do not yet call price pumps, bubble, with increased adoptions we would see consolidations in the value

Yaunfitda

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Quote from: Ozero on December 24, 2018, 05:59:33 AM

I agree with this statement. Bitcoin manifests itself as a financial bubble and in this regard is also no exception. This has partly happened throughout this year. The fall of Bitcoin to the current price had a very sobering effect on those who unconditionally believed in its constant rise in price. Now it is hardly possible to repeat this situation. Bitcoin holders will already partially withdraw their funds from Bitcoin, if it again begins to rise sharply in price. At the same time, its price should already fall rapidly. Thus, the bitcoin bubble will no longer grow so quickly.

Of course, if you have experience how trading works, everything won't go on a parabolic rise, including cryptocurrency. That's why the madness in December was so deafening because majority of us have seen the bubble and obviously it needs to be busted.

And now the whole year bear market has proven time and again that it's a cycle so I do hope that we all learn our lessons well and be prepared for the next coming years.

Ozero

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Chainjoes.com

I agree with this statement. Bitcoin manifests itself as a financial bubble and in this regard is also no exception. This has partly happened throughout this year. The fall of Bitcoin to the current price had a very sobering effect on those who unconditionally believed in its constant rise in price. Now it is hardly possible to repeat this situation. Bitcoin holders will already partially withdraw their funds from Bitcoin, if it again begins to rise sharply in price. At the same time, its price should already fall rapidly. Thus, the bitcoin bubble will no longer grow so quickly.

Topic: Ron Paul: All Bubbles Must Pop, the Sooner the Better (Read 317 times)