Ross Ulbricht: FBI Didn't Have Search Warrant, Violated Fourth Amendment - page 2.

jbreher

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Quote from: coynbyer123 on August 05, 2014, 08:26:14 PM

Quote from: jbreher on August 05, 2014, 06:13:15 PM

The rights enumerated therein are not privilege granted by nature of geography. They are inalienable rights, endowed by the creator.

u just make stuff up?

is just amendment to constitution.

just prevents united states laws that try to restrict right.

has no effect outside.

text only says:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

nothing about "inalienable" or "endowed by the creator".

Ever read the preamble? The Declaration of Independence? The Federalist Papers? The Anti-Federalist Papers? Maybe these foundational texts are too archaic for your tastes. How 'bout the Heller decision (2008) where the Supremes declare that the rights enumerated in the BoR are indeed rights that predate, and are superior to, any possible foundation of the good ol' US of A?

You're out in the weeds on this one.

redHeadBlunder

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Quote from: jbreher on August 05, 2014, 06:13:15 PM

Quote from: iluvpie60 on August 05, 2014, 03:57:52 PM

They don't need a search warrant for Iceland

How 'bout some critical thinking?

The 4th Amendment is part of the Bill of Rights. The rights enumerated therein are not privilege granted by nature of geography. They are inalienable rights, endowed by the creator. If the right applies to any human within the boundary of the USA, it applies to all humans anywhere.

That is not 100% true. Constitutional rights only apply to US citizens regardless of where in the world they are. The constitution does not grant any rights to anyone who is not a US citizen.

jbreher

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Quote from: iluvpie60 on August 05, 2014, 06:34:09 PM

Quote from: jbreher on August 05, 2014, 06:13:15 PM

Quote from: iluvpie60 on August 05, 2014, 03:57:52 PM

They don't need a search warrant for Iceland

How 'bout some critical thinking?

The 4th Amendment is part of the Bill of Rights. The rights enumerated therein are not privilege granted by nature of geography. They are inalienable rights, endowed by the creator. If the right applies to any human within the boundary of the USA, it applies to all humans anywhere.

way to not quote the rest. gg.

Go ahead and quote the rest if you want. Doesn't change a thing. Whether or not Iceland gave their assent to the US to rifle thorough a 'person, house, papers, or effects' does not abrogate the universal right to be free from such usurpations.

counter

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Time is on our side, yes it is!

If they broke the law to catch him I hope he's set free and even recovers the funds they stole. Can't be picking and choosing who goes to jail outside of the legal system we have in place, simple as that.

coynbyer123

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Quote from: jbreher on August 05, 2014, 06:13:15 PM

The rights enumerated therein are not privilege granted by nature of geography. They are inalienable rights, endowed by the creator.

u just make stuff up?

is just amendment to constitution.

just prevents united states laws that try to restrict right.

has no effect outside.

text only says:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

nothing about "inalienable" or "endowed by the creator".

CreationLayer

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A bunch of noise for their newest hire. Stall the case like sabu.

Just like the anonymous sabu got hired by the FIB

Someone like this doesn't just go down without having some of his information encrypted.

Surely he can cut a deal, and they are putting pressure on the guy to release more of what he knows.

They'd rather hire him then throw him in jail, that's what happens.

Also, the datacenter in Iceland doesn't have to require a warrant to see customer property. You would have to look at that companies specific policies. I doubt, with a little pressure, they wouldn't budge. Other hosting companies have done the same.

LouReed

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Nosce te Ipsum

Quote from: iluvpie60 on August 05, 2014, 03:57:52 PM

Quote from: coinfinance on August 05, 2014, 07:38:10 AM

A new statement released by the defense team of Ross Ulbricht, the alleged owner of Silk Road, a DarkNet drug marketplace, accuses the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) of violating the Fourth Amendment of the United States Constitution. They claim that the Bureau did not have a legal search warrant when they found the Silk Road servers, which were located in Iceland. Ulbricht’s defense has requested that the court drop all charges, since the federal government of the United States broke their own laws when seeking out the location of the Silk Road Servers.

More info at http://coinfinance.com/news/ross-ulbricht-fbi-didnt-have-search-warrant-violated-fourth-amendment

They don't need a search warrant for Iceland, Iceland cooperates with the U.S. as part of a treaty. It was very likely they just let them take it, it was probably Iceland that had the search warrant then gave it over to the U.S. Its not like the U.S. would just show up outta nowhere in Iceland and start "stealing servers" from some guy who hosts the servers. I mean c'mon.

CRITICAL THINKING....

Who cares about Ross he is a scum bag and hurt bitcoin, as my constructive post states he is a destructive character!

Damn bro! Why didn't I think of that!!?? Moreover, why the hell didn't Ross' attorney think of that? I wonder how he became one of the top attorneys in the country when he can't even think of something sooo simple? Huh

If I'm ever in legal trouble, I'll be sure to pm you straight away for legal advice! Roll Eyes

ForgottenPassword

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Go Dread Pirate Roberts. I so hope he gets away with this. Would he also be able to recover the auctioned Bitcoins if he does?

Thats actually quite interesting because the 30,000 BTC that was sold was seized from the Silk Road server which they are alleging LE had no search warrant for. The problem is Ross never put in a claim to say he is the owner of those BTC, so unless he or someone else comes forward to say they belong to them they'll get to keep the proceeds from that auction.

The BTC seized on his actual laptop (100,000+ BTC) is being battled out right now. Ross is claiming they are the proceeds of Bitcoin trading. If he can prove he is the rightful owner and they were obtained legitimately he will get to keep them. He needs to have proof and it's unlikely that he does but how do we know, maybe they were actually from Bitcoin trading. I've read the affidavit and while it's obvious the FBI are not telling us all the facts they haven't come forward yet with a whole lot of proof to backup their claims that he is DPR and ran Silk Road etc. It's possible they don't have any hard evidence at all although I doubt that very much as they have a 99% conviction rate.

mnmShadyBTC

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Quote from: keithers on August 05, 2014, 06:30:27 PM

Quote from: blumangroup on August 05, 2014, 11:29:33 AM

Quote from: keithers on August 05, 2014, 11:05:33 AM

IMO this case is too high profile for a judge to grant a dismissal. They are throwing the book at him to make an example so that others won't think about following in his footsteps

I doubt that trial judge will dismiss the case based on a technicality, however I would say there is a good chance that he can win via the appeals process.

The worst part about it is that it is no skin off the government's back if he wins or loses. It's all funded on our tax dollars

Prosecutors can be held accountable if they bring someone to trial but lose. Judges are held accountable if they make outrageous rulings. The police can be held accountable if they try to bring charges against people and the charges do not stick.

iluvpie60

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Quote from: jbreher on August 05, 2014, 06:13:15 PM

Quote from: iluvpie60 on August 05, 2014, 03:57:52 PM

They don't need a search warrant for Iceland

How 'bout some critical thinking?

The 4th Amendment is part of the Bill of Rights. The rights enumerated therein are not privilege granted by nature of geography. They are inalienable rights, endowed by the creator. If the right applies to any human within the boundary of the USA, it applies to all humans anywhere.

way to not quote the rest. gg.

keithers

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This is the land of wolves now & you're not a wolf

Quote from: blumangroup on August 05, 2014, 11:29:33 AM

Quote from: keithers on August 05, 2014, 11:05:33 AM

IMO this case is too high profile for a judge to grant a dismissal. They are throwing the book at him to make an example so that others won't think about following in his footsteps

I doubt that trial judge will dismiss the case based on a technicality, however I would say there is a good chance that he can win via the appeals process.

The worst part about it is that it is no skin off the government's back if he wins or loses. It's all funded on our tax dollars

Lauda

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Terminated.

Quote from: ?? on ??

Ross will probably get the death penalty. Sad

I highly doubt that people get the death penalty for hosting a service (?).If enough evidence gets dismissed he might end up being free and having a laugh at them.

jbreher

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Quote from: iluvpie60 on August 05, 2014, 03:57:52 PM

They don't need a search warrant for Iceland

How 'bout some critical thinking?

The 4th Amendment is part of the Bill of Rights. The rights enumerated therein are not privilege granted by nature of geography. They are inalienable rights, endowed by the creator. If the right applies to any human within the boundary of the USA, it applies to all humans anywhere.

escrow.dude

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Quote from: Razick on August 05, 2014, 04:07:38 PM

Quote from: dserrano5 on August 05, 2014, 11:36:54 AM

Quote from: keithers on August 05, 2014, 11:05:33 AM

They are throwing the book at him to make an example so that others won't think about following in his footsteps

What footsteps? Publishing his personal email? That is what people should learn not to do.

When I first read about this case it puzzled me why someone so good at keeping himself anonymous would make such a simple mistake.

He made the mistakes very early on. Likely at a time when he did not expect SR to be massively successful. I would also not be surprised if he was able to get some advice along the way.

Razick

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Quote from: dserrano5 on August 05, 2014, 11:36:54 AM

Quote from: keithers on August 05, 2014, 11:05:33 AM

They are throwing the book at him to make an example so that others won't think about following in his footsteps

What footsteps? Publishing his personal email? That is what people should learn not to do.

When I first read about this case it puzzled me why someone so good at keeping himself anonymous would make such a simple mistake.

iluvpie60

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Quote from: coinfinance on August 05, 2014, 07:38:10 AM

A new statement released by the defense team of Ross Ulbricht, the alleged owner of Silk Road, a DarkNet drug marketplace, accuses the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) of violating the Fourth Amendment of the United States Constitution. They claim that the Bureau did not have a legal search warrant when they found the Silk Road servers, which were located in Iceland. Ulbricht’s defense has requested that the court drop all charges, since the federal government of the United States broke their own laws when seeking out the location of the Silk Road Servers.

More info at http://coinfinance.com/news/ross-ulbricht-fbi-didnt-have-search-warrant-violated-fourth-amendment

They don't need a search warrant for Iceland, Iceland cooperates with the U.S. as part of a treaty. It was very likely they just let them take it, it was probably Iceland that had the search warrant then gave it over to the U.S. Its not like the U.S. would just show up outta nowhere in Iceland and start "stealing servers" from some guy who hosts the servers. I mean c'mon.

CRITICAL THINKING....

Who cares about Ross he is a scum bag and hurt bitcoin, as my constructive post states he is a destructive character!

galbros

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First, I don't think a judge would have any issues dismissing this case if he/she wanted to. After all, courts rule against the government (FBI) all the time in the USA.

However, even if this works, I don't think it ends the case. He was apprehended in a public place so no warrant needed for that. So maybe they have a harder row to how, I don't thing the US Govt. case is broken by this.

Of course, I could be wrong, if I was a lawyer I'd be billing people $300 an hour not hanging out on bitcointalk!

arbitrage001

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Interesting case to watch.

Huge ramification for bitcoin related business.

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: blumangroup on August 05, 2014, 11:29:33 AM

doubt that trial judge will dismiss the case based on a technicality, however I would say there is a good chance that he can win via the appeals process.

I wouldn't call an unconstitutional search to be a technicality and I certainly would hope that a judge wouldn't either. That being said we don't really know how strong the claim of a 4th amendment violation is. A judge may disagree and allow the evidence to be presented.

ForgottenPassword

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on August 05, 2014, 11:23:39 AM

Quote from: keithers on August 05, 2014, 11:05:33 AM

IMO this case is too high profile for a judge to grant a dismissal. They are throwing the book at him to make an example so that others won't think about following in his footsteps

People started following in his footsteps within days.

Allegedly there was a procedure in place by Silk Road staff to allow for the easy launch of Silk Road 2 if anything bad ever happened to the original Silk Road.

From what I can tell, all the Silk Road bust has done is provide free advertising for darknet marketplaces. After the bust there was a huge rush of people to sign up on Silk Road 2 and competitors, most of which are running smoothly.

Topic: Ross Ulbricht: FBI Didn't Have Search Warrant, Violated Fourth Amendment - page 2. (Read 2967 times)