Topic: Runes will be worthless. Don't waste your precious BTC on huge fees. - page 2. (Read 1124 times)

So everyone that said "No" to ordinals was right?

Well not "right", but the siding with ordinals aged like milk I guess if you liked ordinals or supported them.

Only Runes I fuck with are Runescape lmfao.  

Sorry to everyone that got hurt or had their journey fucked up because of the get rich quick hype. Truly. 

<3

I saw through that right from the start -- and I think the majority of app developers did too. But you say an important complementary point to what I said about people manufacturing utility (by creating a solution and then searching for the problem) -- that they also completely lost the plot with Ethereum as a "supercomputer". I agree, they should have just used Ether (gas) to run everything. Their app itself would have made them money but no. They all sold a dream of tokens being traded for demand in whatever half-assed utility they thought up.

That really is all they care about (making money and exiting). Hey, I fell for some of them too.

The worst thing (well, not the worst but) is those suits and ties are now parading as Bitcoiners to sell their Runedinals...

I am really enjoying this... I was hoping this would happen, sometimes I think the only one who got something positive out of this is the creator of the runes... It still surprises me how people keep falling for these scams 

I would not be happy with such a direct blocking, but I think I made my point clear already in other threads.

Of course projects using BRC-20 could now simply switch to Runes (as they could have done before to platforms like OpenAssets, Counterparty, RGB ...). But I think it's better to simply let BRC-20 die alone. I don't discard there could be some waves still but judging from what we've seen in the past weeks since the halving they will be much smaller and do no harm.

Such a measure would be considered arbitrary if there was no technical reason other to block a standard some do not like. Include me of course among those that don't like BRC-20 , but I think Bitcoin never should target any standard, only real vulnerabilities. So I personally would only support such a "direct block" if the OP_FALSE / OP_IF -> OP_ENDIF combination is really technically dangerous, allowing really malicious scripts, but is that a thing in Bitcoin Script? (I'm not knowledgeable enough to answer this question, but IMO the harm which can be done only is related to that the script size limit can be circunvented).

AFAIK from what I have read in the developer mailing list they don't consider this script to be a "bug" which should be "fixed". Except Luke-Jr, of course, but I think with his datacarriersize method he implemented in Bitcoin Knots, he found a reasonable way for nodes to block Ordinals as "data transactions" if they don't want to relay them.

Possibly you're right. What I fear is however that with such a measure you could paradoxically help BRC-20 to keep alive; they could find a way to transact them with a method not including an Inscription. And those having created them in 2023 and early would feel rewarded to be in possession of such "rare" objects. It's only a bad feeling I have, of course it's not sure if this will happen.

For me personally, Runes as a technology isn't that stupid. In the OP I'm referring more to the model to create a token whose only value lies in having a "creative name" and which can then be "minted" by anyone.

But Runes can also be used for things that make more sense, of course, like as a game currency, or as a crowdfunding platform. However, it would not make so much sense to create this kind of currency on Bitcoin due to the fees. The "magic" of Runes is much related to the same (imo stupid) "value proposition" than in BRC-20: having a "valuable" token on the "OG" Bitcoin blockchain. Very much like a NFT, but in a minimally fungible way.

By the way, Runes could be probably transferred via LN if their protocol includes timelocks and hashlocks. I don't know the protocol in detail however. This is something which can be added but adds some complexity to the algorithm (basically they need either a hard-coded way to do those locks or an own "Script language").

The instigators for these things don't have a long-term interest, though.  It's a pump'n'dump.  They hype it up and then sell it ASAP.  Whether it's a bull or bear market, these things aren't designed to retain or increase their value over time.  Anyone still holding it after the initial pump is just a victim who hasn't learned anything yet.

I was thinking about making OP_FALSE OP_IF ... OP_ENDIF non-standard, since BRC-20 usually put data less than 100 bytes.


I think such hype wouldn't last long. And i don't see any problem with miner/pool including non-standard TX, assuming they charge premium cost for it. Miner would earn more money, while Ordinal create less spam.


I think you forget the fact Runes use OP_RETURN to store the arbitrary data, where OP_RETURN output usually isn't stored on full node UTXO set.

Reading the posts saying Runes are stupid.

Although absolutely true, at least Runes as a protocol for shitcoinery in Bitcoin is better for the blockchain than BRC-20. Runes data are stored directly in UTXOs which means they could be used in LN? Plus it won't be expanding the UTXO set like what Ordinals-based BRC-20 does. That's what many on-chain users want, no? For those spam transactions to be removed on-chain? I believe Runes is the technical development that could do it. The Lightning Network will be spammed though.

Runes and ordinals are the new meme coins, unfortunately some people are stupid enough to buy some and hold, thinking that if Bitcoin made a new all time high they will become rich, if I say that I am wondering who will buy from them it is a lie, when retailers start running back to the market they might start buying too because they are bunch of idiots, it was how we never believe that the past meme coins will gain attention but they did, some turn rich and some turned poor.

The way people are investing in these useless ideas is mind bothering, some people Soley care about meme coins only, since crypto is mostly about hype anything can happen, here is what I think, right now it is too early to say that runes and ordinals are done, some idiots will still come back and buy, but when this bear market is over many will end up with worthless inscriptions.

Let's see how things will go this time, I am expecting one more noise on runes and ordinals before they finally died and forgotten, it is a shame that many people will lose a ton of money because of this madness.

Couldn’t scammers lie about this as well? Even if they failed this time around to make the profits they were expecting, instead of giving up, they may lie about it, trying to create the image they were successful, to hype the next incarnation of this scam to gullible people.

After all, I would have guessed that by now most of those which have been around for a long time would know to recognize a scam by sight, but it seems I am wrong about that.

The solution altcoins provide is to try to make the creators rich quick.

The main problem is the tokens themselves. If Ethereum, for example, actually ran all its apps using Ethereum itself, rather than having thousands of different tokens - a different token for every app, plus entirely useless meme tokens, then these apps would have actually been judged and used on their merit. Instead the only reason people use any of these apps is to try to get rich quick on the pump and dumps of these random tokens.

Why would ANYONE want a different token for every different app they use?! lol. I don't want a different credit card or a different currency for every store I go to. That's where things got stupid with Crypto. But the reason was because that's how founders of these companies, or simply creators of these tokens, could get rich quick, and also fund their company. And that's all they cared about. Why create a business with market fit when instead you can create a business with a token and regardless of if your business succeeds, as long as you can get part of the crypto market to try out your token you can make many millions from selling the premine and continuing to own much of the supply.

The idea of tokenizing the world turned out to be as dumb as the idea of "blockchain, not bitcoin" that business suit types started trying to spread back in like 2018 lol. The right thing was always: Bitcoin, only Bitcoin.

There will be still a lot of snake oil, but my hope is that it wouldn't again concentrate on the Bitcoin chain, at least not on mainchain. Between 2014 (Counterparty/Omni wave) and 2023 (BRC-20 wave) there was a 9 year stretch where token projects weren't popular at all on the Bitcoin platform. And with good reasons: With the exception of a little extra security there is almost no reason not to use a blockchain like Ethereum or Solana - or even LTC or Doge - for a token project.

At least I wouldn't oppose thinking now about limiting the script size to the same value as for non-Taproot scripts.

A potential side effect however could be that the bigger Ordinals get more "rare" then as it would be difficult to create new ones. This could potentially generate another hype, although at least the blockchains wouldn't suffer that much because basically only transfers would happening. The problem is if miners cooperate with Ordinals firms, to launch even "more rare" collections.

I think you're too optimistic here still. Even relatively "well-made" altcoins lose often 90% in a "crypto-winter" style bear market. ORDI lost already 50%, in the middle of a bull market.

This is why it surprises me that we already see such a big decline. I seriously thought Runes hype would last a little longer. Of course they have not disappeared and still there is significant minting/etching, but the difference to BRC-20, where the initial wave didn't end until at least 6 months later is striking.

Thing with alts (and runes/ordinals really are just very poor versions of alts, themselves generally poor implementations of cryptocurrency) is they've always done things counter logical.

Bitcoin's utility lay in its solution to existing money problems. Altcoins utility lay in creating solutions, then searching for problems to fit into the solution.

Not to say there isn't past success in manufacturing utility. But these collectibility utility is getting really quite old.

Crypto tokens and NFTs and all that sort of stuff are generally worthless. These things only have worth is they have use. For 99% of this stuff the "use" is for the creator to try to market the thing to get rich quick. Once that is done the use is gone.

After people get burnt by this useless worthless stuff enough times they either leave the cryptocurrency space entirely or they realize that Bitcoin is the only thing they should be concerning themselves with. And of course I mean actual bitcoin, not random NFT data stuffed into a transaction of a single Sat or whatever.

Sentimentality has never had a place in ANY industry. Period. Full Stop.

You can make some money off of other peoples sentimentality and sell things to them based on that. But long term it will not work. And no business should ever base itself on it.'

-Dave

Sentimentality never had its place in this industry, and everytime someone tries to bank on this concept they fail horribly.

Ordinals tried it with their Inscriptions, NFTs tried it, only thing that really stuck around is the ethereum name service but only because it serves a purpose higher than its sentimental value. Runes are no different from the its predecessors, and it's no surprise it's fucking up quite royally nowadays. Projects like these is what further drives the agenda of Real World-Backed Assets and why I think it's going to become the next biggest narrative in this bull season.

The fact alone that these clowns think we're schmucks who would flock upon the next snake oil is just a massive insult to me, and I'm quite glad people are becoming more and more skeptical when it comes to these things, degens and ape-ing on a coin is still going to be a thing, but for the rest of us who want more out of the coin that we invested upon, RWA is going to be the answer.

the scrypt algo of ltc and doge is very profitable for mining and has been this way for almost 7 years in a row.

even pull away the false boost doge to  had 70 cents and you can still see that doge does well for mining.

That saying "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me" is obviously not valid in the world of cryptocurrencies, and there is a high probability that we will see the next ordinal stupidity as soon as investors forget how "smart" they were with their investments the first two times. I hope that the developers will do something before that - let the children play in the playground, not in the place for adults.

If there are no urban legends about how someone got rich minting Runes, there is a high probability that they will stop there.
An obvious example was Dogecoin, where many people got rich from nothing, and later we would have a flood of meme tokens for almost every breed of dog. If there isn't much talk of big money on the tokenization of the Bitcoin network, that trend could end up in history.

And one month later they keep minting them, reminds me of gold miners digging for gold 100 years after the mine was depleted.



Interestingly enough the more the fees go down the more cheap it becomes for everyone to get some of these, creating an artificial floor, probably there are enough who didn't want or were unable financially to get in the first wave and now they are trying their luck when it becomes affordable to gamble with those on their value.


I think those grapes are a bit misleading, it would look like runes have gone 1% of their activity but when you check the percentage of tx or the numbers they still make 20% of them:




Of course, there will be a new thing, I doubt we won't have one in a few months, just give them time to unload completely this crap to users so they don't end up with unsold merchandise and they will invent the new big thing, if jpg monkeys sold that well what wound't sell?

Haha, yes BRC-20 is definitely lacking in terms of feature rich functionality, something that other protocols offer so I don't think BRC-20 will be around. I for one am very intruiged by the new coined term "Epic Sats" & also I think it is quite a fun development in the space drawing new attention & adoption towards bitcoin's cause. I think you can definitely partake in the fun now and make some sats if you do a little research & find some good projects to get into. Personally I like bitmaps I think the concept is cool and they seem to have a lot of application in their own way. I have yet to delve more into the runes protocol & project & see all the other side rune projects - there is still much to learn in this area.