Russia as an empire has no place at the Olympics

KingScorpio

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Quote from: alexkamillakroy on December 18, 2019, 07:49:54 PM

"An empire" Undecided

maybe since it's not it would have place ~~if not for US geopolitical interests~~

empires can indeed exist like networks overlapping each other in a big planetary city, the problem is, how is the limited financial sovereignty being distributed.

we currently think in geographiy states and laws, made by law writing institution, in europas christian past it was more about the religion and selfappointment.

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"An empire" Undecided

maybe since it's not it would have place ~~if not for US geopolitical interests~~

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Quote from: ProtonBlast on December 16, 2019, 12:25:55 PM

It's kind of sad for all of those athletes that dedicated countless hours into an unknown sports, and are clean but won't get the opportunity to participate because of the actions of others.

It is indeed very sad that this is how other athletes are going to be a good example for all others.
The saddest part is that there are a lot of strong athletes from Russia, in general, and this ban is going to make the whole Olympics less competitive in almost all sports.

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Quote from: KingScorpio on December 17, 2019, 07:28:18 AM

no national flags in olympics anymore ban them all then the money disappears, that is driving the doping competition anyway

I agree completely. The Olympics should be a celebration of human excellence, without nationalities, without borders. The question of which patch of Earth a competitor happened to be born on should have no relevance. We should be cheering the individual, not the flag.

KingScorpio

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Quote from: Cnut237 on December 17, 2019, 05:36:35 AM

The Olympics should be about the individual, rather than the country. I appreciate that elite athletes wouldn't get government funding if they weren't competing under a flag, but really - the Olympics is about individual excellence, is it not?

Russia as a country should be banned because of state-sponsored doping, but Russian athletes should be allowed to compete if they can be proven clean. The idea of banning someone purely because of where they were born seems to go strongly against the Olympic ideal. Last time around there was a 'Refugee' team, which was a brilliant move. Why can't we have a 'Drug-Free Independents' team? Appreciate the team name could use some work...

i was born in russia, and i also am anti doping, but the problem is as soon as money is involved there are others that are doping and the winner in the end becomes the one with the best most invisible doping method.

doping drugs will have a race, that is about stealth as long as there is nationalism and racism still existing, becuase nations try to look good at olympics.

i also think that it would be better if the olympics would become about the athletes again instead about the country, and it wouldnt be politically exploited.

meaning,

lets make olympics neutral again, it should be about the individual not about the organisation pushing those individuals.

lets make olympics bio again

it should be banned to tell an athletes origin, training location and others,

nothing of all that should be allowed to be mentioned, no national flags in olympics anymore ban them all then the money disappears, that is driving the doping competition anyway

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All sportsmen use doping, but just some countries have better ways to conceal it. Silly of you to assume that only the countries like Russia are in it

Cnut237

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The Olympics should be about the individual, rather than the country. I appreciate that elite athletes wouldn't get government funding if they weren't competing under a flag, but really - the Olympics is about individual excellence, is it not?

Russia as a country should be banned because of state-sponsored doping, but Russian athletes should be allowed to compete if they can be proven clean. The idea of banning someone purely because of where they were born seems to go strongly against the Olympic ideal. Last time around there was a 'Refugee' team, which was a brilliant move. Why can't we have a 'Drug-Free Independents' team? Appreciate the team name could use some work...

KingScorpio

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Quote from: zorgo.games on December 13, 2019, 06:32:50 AM

Quote from: Alik Bahshi on December 01, 2019, 05:19:12 PM

Alik Bakhshi
Russia as an empire has no place at the Olympics

The Russian empire was suspended from participating in the 2018 Winter Olympics due to doping, which, at the initiative of Putin, was fed to Russian athletes at the Sochi Olympics in 2014, whose success was to increase, which fell along with the collapse of the USSR, the international prestige of Russia. The victory at the Sochi Olympics according to Putin's plan was to ensure him popularity as a caring leader worthy of popular love and respect. Yes, Putin needed popular support before the planned, with the help of his protege Yanukovych, the return of Ukraine to the fold of the empire. By the way, I warned of this strategic goal of Putin long before the start of the insidious attack on Ukraine (1,2). True, not everything went smoothly, because of the Maidan, the traitor Yanukovych was forced to flee, and instead of all Ukraine, Putin got only the Crimea and the Donbass. The mutiny in Kharkov and Odessa by Ukrainian patriots was able to repay. Of course, the Russian people, known for their imperial worldview, favor President Putin, not taking into account that the lies and evil that have already become Putin's calling card are punishable. You have to pay for everything, the World is so arranged.

And today, Russian athletes are paying for the deception of their beloved president. The WADA committee recommended that the executive committee of this organization remove Russia for four years from participation in international sports competitions. The fact is that Russia has not yet fulfilled all the requirements for providing the experts with data from the Moscow anti-doping laboratory, and those that were transferred turned out to be changed, which was naturally noticed. As a result, as one would expect, the very status of the Russian Anti-Doping Agency (RUSADA) was in jeopardy. In short, until Russia recognizes the McLaren report, the participation of Russian athletes in international competitions is impossible. In an interview with the BBC, the head of RUSADA, Yuri Ganus, did not ambiguously blame the authorities for this situation, saying that he knew who exactly was behind the substitution of samples for doping. Moreover, he made it clear that he was afraid for his life, on the example of suddenly simultaneously completely dead RUSAD officials Sinev and Kamaev, who knew about Putin’s interference in the sport. (https://www.bbc.com/russian/features-50525144)

In short, until Russia recognizes the McLaren report, the participation of Russian athletes in international competitions is impossible. Putin is well aware that confessing to manipulating samples is tantamount to confessing to a criminal offense committed by him, because in Russia, without Putin’s knowledge, no one would dare to commit such a massive crime. Minister Mutko and the FSB agents involved in the substitution of samples are only executors of the will of the president of all of Russia. (3.4)

Russia should be completely excluded from international sports competitions as an empire that suppresses the sovereign right of other peoples of the empire, besides the Russian, to fly under its national flags. For example, in the UK, Scots and Welsh compete in the World Cup on a par with the British, each under its own national flag.

1. Whose Crimea. https://alikbahshi.livejournal.com/?skip=150#post-alikbahshi-4030
2. Ukraine as a victim of immorality of the West towards Russia. https://alikbahshi.livejournal.com/?skip=50#post-alikbahshi-20891
3. Putin is a felon. https://alikbahshi.livejournal.com/#post-alikbahshi-41952
4. Urine Mutko as a symbol of Russian sport. https://alikbahshi.livejournal.com/#post-alikbahshi-42596
12/01/19

I fully agree with the author. Russia as a state must be banned from all international competitions. Some individuals may be excluded from such a ban after very thorough scrutiny and can be let to participate under different flags. The world should wake up at last and say its' word as for all crimes Russia has been committing during previous years. The proper response must come from all possible sources and sports is just one of them.

there is no single state that hasn't commited so called "crimes" because fundamentally justice is an absurd concept and it doesnt precisely exist

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It's kind of sad for all of those athletes that dedicated countless hours into an unknown sports, and are clean but won't get the opportunity to participate because of the actions of others.

yoseph

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Quote from: tsaroz on December 16, 2019, 04:11:00 AM

It's really a shame for Russia not being able to stop doping within it's sporting communities.

Legalizing doping would increase unhealthy competition as countries would start manufacturing super drugs for themselves. It would be really difficult for less advanced countries in competing with the pharmaceutical technology.

There's also been issues of the sporting regulations banning a certain drug just before the event and failing the drug users for the traces that has been on their body before the ban. For it, every drug should have a 10 years grace period after the decision of ban before testing for it's presence in athletes.

They have been banned before for these doping allegations and it was lifted but they don't seem to stop because I believe that the whole thing was sponsored by the country and not just some individual athletes who wanted to cheat and win some medals. I believe this was the way to go and they should make it even longer since this isn't their first offense.

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It's really a shame for Russia not being able to stop doping within it's sporting communities.

Legalizing doping would increase unhealthy competition as countries would start manufacturing super drugs for themselves. It would be really difficult for less advanced countries in competing with the pharmaceutical technology.

There's also been issues of the sporting regulations banning a certain drug just before the event and failing the drug users for the traces that has been on their body before the ban. For it, every drug should have a 10 years grace period after the decision of ban before testing for it's presence in athletes.

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so what the topic creator is really saying is putin travelled to the olympic gym and himself handed pills to the atheletes for years while they were training from 2008-2014

sounds legit

more like putin said 'you better win' and it was the coaches that handed out the pills out of fear of repurcussion.. as a more plausible scenario

or even the athletes themselves wanted the extra edge vs their competitors.. as an even more plausible scenario

im british and carry no favour for russia or america
but when america acts like 'dont blame us for our dumb president'
but then goes and tars a whole country like russia or china based on media stories of single men.. you kind of have to see the irony in it

especially to then say that any actions done by individuals are then the presidents faults.. lets take american school shootings. lets now pretend trump orchestrated them as a comparable

or lets just declare all of america as orange face wig wearers with small hands. like america tries to define any action done in china as some single combined agenda of every billion people in agreement

..
as for the solution.
if athletes test positive for drugs. they get put on routine screening. daily or hourly if needs be for the weeks or months leading up to any sport competition.
if they pass the test. then just let them play

the olympic games is suppose to unite countries with finding something common they can all agree and participate in with no violence or threats. just healthy competition
its like war getting downgraded to hunger games, getting downgraded to thunderdome getting downgraded to being good sports

to be honest id prefer all countries do the olympics and where instead of wars. diplomacy is decided on a 100metre sprint instead of by gun fire
there is no need to start making the olympics a weapon to break up diplomacy. its purpose was to create diplomacy

but hey,
most people that disagree with my thoughts here. much prefer the fox new rhetoric of 'bomb them bomb them bomb them' which just goes to show how much diplomacy,humanity and decency they actually dont care about

russia and china: "we want to make weapons for our own defense"
america"bomb them bomb them bomb them"

who sounds more like a radical nutcase

gotta find it equally ironic that america get news worthy about crimea population of under 2mill
yet get tightlipped about americas invasion of syria of over 20mill
syria is not even an american neighbour

zorgo.games

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Quote from: Alik Bahshi on December 01, 2019, 05:19:12 PM

Alik Bakhshi
Russia as an empire has no place at the Olympics

The Russian empire was suspended from participating in the 2018 Winter Olympics due to doping, which, at the initiative of Putin, was fed to Russian athletes at the Sochi Olympics in 2014, whose success was to increase, which fell along with the collapse of the USSR, the international prestige of Russia. The victory at the Sochi Olympics according to Putin's plan was to ensure him popularity as a caring leader worthy of popular love and respect. Yes, Putin needed popular support before the planned, with the help of his protege Yanukovych, the return of Ukraine to the fold of the empire. By the way, I warned of this strategic goal of Putin long before the start of the insidious attack on Ukraine (1,2). True, not everything went smoothly, because of the Maidan, the traitor Yanukovych was forced to flee, and instead of all Ukraine, Putin got only the Crimea and the Donbass. The mutiny in Kharkov and Odessa by Ukrainian patriots was able to repay. Of course, the Russian people, known for their imperial worldview, favor President Putin, not taking into account that the lies and evil that have already become Putin's calling card are punishable. You have to pay for everything, the World is so arranged.

And today, Russian athletes are paying for the deception of their beloved president. The WADA committee recommended that the executive committee of this organization remove Russia for four years from participation in international sports competitions. The fact is that Russia has not yet fulfilled all the requirements for providing the experts with data from the Moscow anti-doping laboratory, and those that were transferred turned out to be changed, which was naturally noticed. As a result, as one would expect, the very status of the Russian Anti-Doping Agency (RUSADA) was in jeopardy. In short, until Russia recognizes the McLaren report, the participation of Russian athletes in international competitions is impossible. In an interview with the BBC, the head of RUSADA, Yuri Ganus, did not ambiguously blame the authorities for this situation, saying that he knew who exactly was behind the substitution of samples for doping. Moreover, he made it clear that he was afraid for his life, on the example of suddenly simultaneously completely dead RUSAD officials Sinev and Kamaev, who knew about Putin’s interference in the sport. (https://www.bbc.com/russian/features-50525144)

In short, until Russia recognizes the McLaren report, the participation of Russian athletes in international competitions is impossible. Putin is well aware that confessing to manipulating samples is tantamount to confessing to a criminal offense committed by him, because in Russia, without Putin’s knowledge, no one would dare to commit such a massive crime. Minister Mutko and the FSB agents involved in the substitution of samples are only executors of the will of the president of all of Russia. (3.4)

Russia should be completely excluded from international sports competitions as an empire that suppresses the sovereign right of other peoples of the empire, besides the Russian, to fly under its national flags. For example, in the UK, Scots and Welsh compete in the World Cup on a par with the British, each under its own national flag.

1. Whose Crimea. https://alikbahshi.livejournal.com/?skip=150#post-alikbahshi-4030
2. Ukraine as a victim of immorality of the West towards Russia. https://alikbahshi.livejournal.com/?skip=50#post-alikbahshi-20891
3. Putin is a felon. https://alikbahshi.livejournal.com/#post-alikbahshi-41952
4. Urine Mutko as a symbol of Russian sport. https://alikbahshi.livejournal.com/#post-alikbahshi-42596
12/01/19

I fully agree with the author. Russia as a state must be banned from all international competitions. Some individuals may be excluded from such a ban after very thorough scrutiny and can be let to participate under different flags. The world should wake up at last and say its' word as for all crimes Russia has been committing during previous years. The proper response must come from all possible sources and sports is just one of them.

Naida_BR

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Quote from: KingScorpio on December 02, 2019, 01:43:37 PM

at olympics doping is normal,

countries have to spend a ton of money for specialised athlets, but why cent they spend a ton of money for drugs or high tech equipment.

at china olympics high tech shark skin suits where banned, as they helped break records.

during communism sport was something more hobbylike professional boxing was banned among others, it is the greed of the paying visiting masses that pushes olympics to the extremes.

The rise of doping started to happen when a lot of companies started to spend a lot of money to athletes for endorsements.
Having said that, athletes started to try making more money as if they were on the top they could get more endorsements and make advertisements. It not about winning it is about making more money.

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Olympics turns into a pride of country than games which is the reason why countries pushing their players at any extinct to win the games and chase records for that they are training people from their childhood by giving the right diet for the game and also they give doping to boost up their performance.

KingScorpio

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Quote from: TwitchySeal on December 05, 2019, 02:48:45 PM

Quote from: squatz1 on December 05, 2019, 10:12:47 AM

Quote from: Rikafip on December 02, 2019, 01:49:05 PM

Quote from: KingScorpio on December 02, 2019, 01:43:37 PM

during communism sport was something more hobbylike professional boxing was banned among others.

I beg to disagree, DDR was notorious for their doping. Communist countries saw sport as a way of propaganda, so they really went all in( not just them ofc) . Those were different times though, less money in sports.

Oh yeah. Most (if not all) of the communist countries would dope the hell out of their athletes because if they were to bring a medal back home they'd be able to continue the whole 'we're still the best in the world, obviously'

Yup. In China they have special sports schools potential Olympic athletes. There are lots of interesting articles out there about the process (Ping Pong, Canoeing and Gymnastics have all been covered). If a child shows they might be capable of winning a medal when they grow up they're placed in one. (I think I read they have about 200k - 300k athletes under 18 in these schools) No education, just training for a single sport for their entire childhood. Their parents have no say in the process and neither do the athletes. And they don't get to decide when they retire either, China decides for them. And when they do retire, the only thing they are qualified to do is train younger athletes since they were never educated in anything else.

i am one oppinion with muslims on this actually and many russians too, sports for perfectionism is pointless, olympics is not about maintaining human health, it has become just a spectacle, chasing records.
those athletes are a pointless waste of money, those that created the olympics did it in order to have some kind of international cooperation but science, engineering, police, farming and other anti terror networks do even better not to mention the cyber gaming networks.

olympics is outdated perfectionism, and doping perverted it, but it is not a russian thing doping is widespread among all athletes of the world.

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Quote from: squatz1 on December 05, 2019, 10:12:47 AM

Quote from: Rikafip on December 02, 2019, 01:49:05 PM

Quote from: KingScorpio on December 02, 2019, 01:43:37 PM

during communism sport was something more hobbylike professional boxing was banned among others.

I beg to disagree, DDR was notorious for their doping. Communist countries saw sport as a way of propaganda, so they really went all in( not just them ofc) . Those were different times though, less money in sports.

Oh yeah. Most (if not all) of the communist countries would dope the hell out of their athletes because if they were to bring a medal back home they'd be able to continue the whole 'we're still the best in the world, obviously'

Yup. In China they have special sports schools potential Olympic athletes. There are lots of interesting articles out there about the process (Ping Pong, Canoeing and Gymnastics have all been covered). If a child shows they might be capable of winning a medal when they grow up they're placed in one. (I think I read they have about 200k - 300k athletes under 18 in these schools) No education, just training for a single sport for their entire childhood. Their parents have no say in the process and neither do the athletes. And they don't get to decide when they retire either, China decides for them. And when they do retire, the only thing they are qualified to do is train younger athletes since they were never educated in anything else.

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Quote from: Rikafip on December 02, 2019, 01:49:05 PM

Quote from: KingScorpio on December 02, 2019, 01:43:37 PM

during communism sport was something more hobbylike professional boxing was banned among others.

I beg to disagree, DDR was notorious for their doping. Communist countries saw sport as a way of propaganda, so they really went all in( not just them ofc) . Those were different times though, less money in sports.

Oh yeah. Most (if not all) of the communist countries would dope the hell out of their athletes because if they were to bring a medal back home they'd be able to continue the whole 'we're still the best in the world, obviously'

Quote from: Ms.Fungible on December 04, 2019, 08:51:35 PM

UN is obsolete and you can't deny hard working people who dedicated their life to sport just because you don't like their country. Fortunately your anger has no power.
God Bless!

What? Russia does have no place at the Olympics and the OP is right. You shouldn't be allowed to continue to participate in international sports like this if you're going to be doping on a country level and trying to hide it, skirting rules through bribes and so on. This should be open and shut.

BADecker

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But anybody can deny the Olympics. Simply don't watch or take part.

Cool

Ms.Fungible

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UN is obsolete and you can't deny hard working people who dedicated their life to sport just because you don't like their country. Fortunately your anger has no power.
God Bless!

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