Russia wants to build a new world order with China - page 2.

goldkingcoiner

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Quote from: DVlog on April 01, 2022, 01:40:08 AM

A new economic system is coming to the world and that system will not be dominated by the West. Russian Security Council Deputy Chairman Dmitry Medvedev (former Russian president) said in an interview with Russian media yesterday.

Quote

Medvedev said: "Hellish sanctions imposed on Russia by the United States, the EU, and their allies in the Ukraine conflict have failed to cripple Russia. Now, these sanctions are coming back to the West.

"As the West continues its futile efforts to corner Russia, the world is slowly moving towards a new global economic relationship. We are moving towards improving the financial system ', he added.

"Confidence in the reserve currency is fading like a morning mist and the prospect of the dollar and the euro leaving does not seem unrealistic now," Medvedev said.

High inflation rates weaken USD dominance for sure but are it really possible to replace USD as a reserve currency or the USA will allow that so easily? The era of regional currency is coming?

Russia SAYS it wants to build a new world order with China but lets look at the facts instead of cheap words of politicians, shall we?

Russia's economy is artifically being propped up by its gold reserves and whatever precious few countries which are not abiding by sanction laws. This is why the ruble rebounded. But it won't last long, as it is a temporary fix.

China's economy is completely reliant on the west's purchasing power. If the west were to sanction China and it's over 1.4 Billion people then China would transform into India really fast. And they know this. China is greedy and opportunistic beyond human measure. They are definitely just waiting to take advantage over a weakened Russia.

So, a new world order would be an extremely painful process for both countries. And I very much doubt China is ready to sacrifice itself and it's current cozy economic situation over Russia's hopes and dreams.

darewaller

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Quote from: Sithara007 on April 16, 2022, 10:07:20 AM

Don't underestimate China. In the near future, the Chinese GDP will overtake that of the United States. China may be dependent on the West for exporting finished goods. But at the same time, can the West survive without imports from China? The same goes with Russia as well. Russia gets a lot of it's revenue from exports of oil, gas and metals to the West. But at the same time, can the West replace all these imports from Russia? Already the western citizens are reeling from sky high inflation and in many of the countries there are popular protests.

It is not just about GDP, it is about how you make that kind of money. China is the manufacturer of the world, whereas USA has the things people want to buy. China did created a bit of their own items that they create as well, they are not like just purely manufacturing items for others anymore, they are creating other stuff as well for themselves.

However, it is still mainly a manufacturer nation, so if we move all of that from China to India, then India would be rich, if we move it to Pakistan then Pakistan would be rich, if we move it to Iceland then Iceland will be rich. It is never really about china, it is about wherever people think they will get the cheapest manufacturing. Hence it is not a permanent richness for China.

Mometaskers

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Quote from: retreat on April 14, 2022, 03:12:23 PM

Quote from: Mometaskers on April 14, 2022, 02:17:49 PM

Well time can only tell if those rumors about Russia and China endorsing a return to gold standard or something similar would come to fruition. What's sure is that Russia would definitely be the junior partner in this relationship if they ever push for it. They don't exactly have a strong economy to begin with.

I don't really agree with you, who say Russia doesn't have a strong enough economy. in times of war still raging like now, it has been seen that russia + china has become a strong (economic and war) power. China and Russia have almost the same basic nationalities and both don't like the US and they have a strong motivation to want to drop the dominance of the US dollar.

Russia is more an exporter of fuel and raw resources. How many Russian companies can you think right of the bat? And what's with "same basic nationalities". That statement don't make sense.

DrBeer

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Quote from: Sithara007 on April 16, 2022, 10:07:20 AM

Quote from: DrBeer on April 15, 2022, 11:50:25 AM

How I like it - how selflessly the supporters of the union of "great Russia" and "insidious China" are engaged in neuromasturbation, suggesting to themselves that China, for which Russia is a raw material appendage, and still the holder of China's historical territories, is more important than the developed West!
West - due to which, in fact, the Chinese economy lives!
In terms of shares, economic indicators show that China's profit from relations with Russia is a turnover commensurate, if not with an error, then in no way affecting trade with the West. One word looks comical, illogical, and stupid

Don't underestimate China. In the near future, the Chinese GDP will overtake that of the United States. China may be dependent on the West for exporting finished goods. But at the same time, can the West survive without imports from China? The same goes with Russia as well. Russia gets a lot of it's revenue from exports of oil, gas and metals to the West. But at the same time, can the West replace all these imports from Russia? Already the western citizens are reeling from sky high inflation and in many of the countries there are popular protests.

Perhaps it will overtake, or maybe not, or maybe internal processes will lead to the destruction of the economy, or maybe they will create an alliance with India, or maybe not, or maybe ... The essence of the discussion is that some have decided, it seems for self-hypnosis, that Russia and China - friends and partners. But the reality is that Russia is only an appendage, raw materials and territorial! China buys Russian resources for a penny, and forces Russia to sell any resources at a price that is beneficial to China!
Oh yes, Russia is still an "errand boy" for China in big politics, where Russia makes idiotic moves, and China calmly reaps the benefits for itself. At the same time, in response, Russia demands almost nothing from China, well, except for talking frankly about Western politics. So China has never led and will not lead it like that

Ozero

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Quote from: Sithara007 on April 14, 2022, 09:52:35 PM

Quote from: be.open on April 13, 2022, 11:40:07 PM

However, they have already done so. China is a difficult ally because it puts its national interests above all else and cherishes plans for the leading role of the Middle Kingdom in the world. The Chinese do not assimilate with the locals, and when the Chinese come to any city, a Chinatown appears in the city. There are relatively few Chinese in Russia just because they don't like cold weather and prefer a warmer climate. Therefore, China's interests in Russia are predominantly resource-oriented. But since resources in Russia are in great abundance, relations between Russia and China are now mutually beneficial - therefore the alliance exists.

China account for around 1/5th of the global population, but in terms of surface area, they account for only around 1/16th of the global total. So naturally, the Chinese appetite for natural resources can't be solely met from within it's borders. In case of Russia, it is the reverse situation. The population is 1/10th of that of China, and the surface area is around 2x larger. So that makes these two countries natural trade partners. But as you said, the dominating attitude of the Chinese can create issues in the long term.

China will definitely take advantage of Russia's current military defeat in Ukraine. Therefore, relations between Russia and China can hardly be called allied. Russia will be greatly weakened economically and militarily due to aggression against Ukraine and international sanctions. China really does not have enough of its own territory, and there they claim to be part of Russian Siberia. Therefore, Russia will soon see for itself how to lose its territory. This will be in the coming years.

Kimonoe

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Quote from: Sithara007 on April 16, 2022, 10:07:20 AM

Quote from: DrBeer on April 15, 2022, 11:50:25 AM

How I like it - how selflessly the supporters of the union of "great Russia" and "insidious China" are engaged in neuromasturbation, suggesting to themselves that China, for which Russia is a raw material appendage, and still the holder of China's historical territories, is more important than the developed West!
West - due to which, in fact, the Chinese economy lives!
In terms of shares, economic indicators show that China's profit from relations with Russia is a turnover commensurate, if not with an error, then in no way affecting trade with the West. One word looks comical, illogical, and stupid

Don't underestimate China. In the near future, the Chinese GDP will overtake that of the United States. China may be dependent on the West for exporting finished goods. But at the same time, can the West survive without imports from China? The same goes with Russia as well. Russia gets a lot of it's revenue from exports of oil, gas and metals to the West. But at the same time, can the West replace all these imports from Russia? Already the western citizens are reeling from sky high inflation and in many of the countries there are popular protests.

both are a good collaboration in my opinion. Western countries will find it difficult to find substitute sources of oil from Russia, while Russia can export to China and be made into finished materials, and finally exported to the rest of the world, from there both economies can develop well, one is a provider of fuel and the other has technology.

19Nov16

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Russia's plan with China of course is an idea that can make the USA and Europe feel competitive, if this plan happens there will be a cold war like the early 80's so that war can happen at any time, of course I hope that Russia and China can learn from the past that made life became difficult and there was a long-term economic recession.

Sithara007

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Quote from: DrBeer on April 15, 2022, 11:50:25 AM

How I like it - how selflessly the supporters of the union of "great Russia" and "insidious China" are engaged in neuromasturbation, suggesting to themselves that China, for which Russia is a raw material appendage, and still the holder of China's historical territories, is more important than the developed West!
West - due to which, in fact, the Chinese economy lives!
In terms of shares, economic indicators show that China's profit from relations with Russia is a turnover commensurate, if not with an error, then in no way affecting trade with the West. One word looks comical, illogical, and stupid

Don't underestimate China. In the near future, the Chinese GDP will overtake that of the United States. China may be dependent on the West for exporting finished goods. But at the same time, can the West survive without imports from China? The same goes with Russia as well. Russia gets a lot of it's revenue from exports of oil, gas and metals to the West. But at the same time, can the West replace all these imports from Russia? Already the western citizens are reeling from sky high inflation and in many of the countries there are popular protests.

DrBeer

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How I like it - how selflessly the supporters of the union of "great Russia" and "insidious China" are engaged in neuromasturbation, suggesting to themselves that China, for which Russia is a raw material appendage, and still the holder of China's historical territories, is more important than the developed West!
West - due to which, in fact, the Chinese economy lives!
In terms of shares, economic indicators show that China's profit from relations with Russia is a turnover commensurate, if not with an error, then in no way affecting trade with the West. One word looks comical, illogical, and stupid

Wong Gendheng

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This is a good idea to create global competition, even many experts believe Russia china vs europe USA was the beginning of the cold war and then world war 3, but I hope many countries can refrain from war and always discuss to be able to resolve the problem, because if it happens war and tension is certainly more destruction and destruction of the world.

Sithara007

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Quote from: be.open on April 13, 2022, 11:40:07 PM

However, they have already done so. China is a difficult ally because it puts its national interests above all else and cherishes plans for the leading role of the Middle Kingdom in the world. The Chinese do not assimilate with the locals, and when the Chinese come to any city, a Chinatown appears in the city. There are relatively few Chinese in Russia just because they don't like cold weather and prefer a warmer climate. Therefore, China's interests in Russia are predominantly resource-oriented. But since resources in Russia are in great abundance, relations between Russia and China are now mutually beneficial - therefore the alliance exists.

China account for around 1/5th of the global population, but in terms of surface area, they account for only around 1/16th of the global total. So naturally, the Chinese appetite for natural resources can't be solely met from within it's borders. In case of Russia, it is the reverse situation. The population is 1/10th of that of China, and the surface area is around 2x larger. So that makes these two countries natural trade partners. But as you said, the dominating attitude of the Chinese can create issues in the long term.

Fortify

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Quote from: DVlog on April 01, 2022, 01:40:08 AM

A new economic system is coming to the world and that system will not be dominated by the West. Russian Security Council Deputy Chairman Dmitry Medvedev (former Russian president) said in an interview with Russian media yesterday.

Quote

Medvedev said: "Hellish sanctions imposed on Russia by the United States, the EU, and their allies in the Ukraine conflict have failed to cripple Russia. Now, these sanctions are coming back to the West.

"As the West continues its futile efforts to corner Russia, the world is slowly moving towards a new global economic relationship. We are moving towards improving the financial system ', he added.

"Confidence in the reserve currency is fading like a morning mist and the prospect of the dollar and the euro leaving does not seem unrealistic now," Medvedev said.

High inflation rates weaken USD dominance for sure but are it really possible to replace USD as a reserve currency or the USA will allow that so easily? The era of regional currency is coming?

The thing with heavily centralized organizations is the can often appear strong, they may even be strong, during times of relative peace and prosperity. However they are often very inflexible societies built around certain hierarchies which often result in nepotism. There is less and less opportunity for the brightest people to move up the ranks, as they are sullied by corruption and bureaucracy that lays around the bottom level. Many people are afraid to speak out, which can stifle sensible ideas which advance the world, they just sit in the grind. However free societies are often much more dynamic and able to solve problems because people are less afraid of speaking the truth.

retreat

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Quote from: Mometaskers on April 14, 2022, 02:17:49 PM

Well time can only tell if those rumors about Russia and China endorsing a return to gold standard or something similar would come to fruition. What's sure is that Russia would definitely be the junior partner in this relationship if they ever push for it. They don't exactly have a strong economy to begin with.

I don't really agree with you, who say Russia doesn't have a strong enough economy. in times of war still raging like now, it has been seen that russia + china has become a strong (economic and war) power. China and Russia have almost the same basic nationalities and both don't like the US and they have a strong motivation to want to drop the dominance of the US dollar.

RealMalatesta

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Quote from: bustabitsboy on April 13, 2022, 01:15:01 PM

Could we imagine a few years ago what we see today? It is profitable for any country in the world to sell their goods for their own currency. This saves a lot of money and contributes to the development of the country as a whole. I think that in the near future, it is clear that there will be four major powers - the USA, China, Russia and India. The rest of the countries will have to join them and be under their protection. Each group will have its own system of monetary relations and the order of interaction between countries.

I would have to say that you could never leave Europe out of this. They are not one nation but they do act as if they are one nation and they are already a super power and I do not think that we are going to see them start doing badly.

We will have Europe, the USA, China, Russia and India at the same time, we already have china and the USA as the world powers right now, Europe used to be considered as a world power but not so much right now after their sanctions to Russia did absolutely nothing and turns out they needed Russia more than Russia needed them. This gave Russia a new founded power and they will abuse this until there is nothing left to abuse.

Mometaskers

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Well time can only tell if those rumors about Russia and China endorsing a return to gold standard or something similar would come to fruition. What's sure is that Russia would definitely be the junior partner in this relationship if they ever push for it. They don't exactly have a strong economy to begin with.

stompix

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Quote from: be.open on April 13, 2022, 11:40:07 PM

There are relatively few Chinese in Russia just because they don't like cold weather and prefer a warmer climate.

Muahahaha, look where the real nazis are.
So, you think Chinese people are some fire people from the fire nation in Avatar that don't like cold or disintegrate at dusk?
I've never heard anything so stupid in my life, what's next, you're going to tell me that there are no black men in Canada or Alaska, because black people turn to popsicles in winter?

Let me clear some things for you, you little racist Putin:
- Canada has 1.6 million people of Chinese origin
- Harbin is home to about 10 million Chinese citizens alone, that's 1/3, of the population of Siberia
- here is a graphic on the temperatures in the above-mentioned cities and others
- as you can see there are 10 million people in that city alone and 30 million in the province that don't mind far colder weather than you have in Moscow or Vladivostok

Not a surprise you're not understanding while the whole world is shunning you when you come up with such nonsense.
Oh, btw, how come Russian people are living in Brazil or Israel, don't they melt?
Do Australians have to wear weights on their feet because if they leave the southern hemisphere they would be walking with their heads down?

be.open

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Quote from: Sithara007 on April 13, 2022, 10:50:52 PM

Quote from: ningrum on April 13, 2022, 06:00:42 AM

Quote from: Pejoh Asu on April 13, 2022, 03:57:52 AM

China and Russia are 2 countries that have strong economic power at this time, although Europe's plan to impose sanctions on Russia due to the invasion of Ukraine but I'm sure this will not have any impact because they have a strong ally, namely China. the plan to create a new world order is certainly a good idea to make the global economic position more stable.

Yes, after all Russia and China besides having strong economic power they are also big countries,
the two countries can be said to be able to stand alone without depending on other countries because they have a strong economy and sufficient resources,
this is interesting to discuss and let's see if the plan will materialize or not

Two countries alone can't make up a major trading bloc or come up with a new world order. Right now, only a handful of countries are on their side and these are mostly pariah states such as North Korea, Zimbabwe, Venezuela and Syria. Even traditional allies of Russia, such as Serbia and Bulgaria have now joined the NATO bloc. Fastest growing economies, such as Brazil, India, Indonesia and Nigeria remain opposed to the Russia-China alliance due to varying reasons (in case of India, as a result of the ongoing border dispute with China on Aksai Chin region).

However, they have already done so. China is a difficult ally because it puts its national interests above all else and cherishes plans for the leading role of the Middle Kingdom in the world. The Chinese do not assimilate with the locals, and when the Chinese come to any city, a Chinatown appears in the city. There are relatively few Chinese in Russia just because they don't like cold weather and prefer a warmer climate. Therefore, China's interests in Russia are predominantly resource-oriented. But since resources in Russia are in great abundance, relations between Russia and China are now mutually beneficial - therefore the alliance exists.

Sithara007

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Quote from: ningrum on April 13, 2022, 06:00:42 AM

Quote from: Pejoh Asu on April 13, 2022, 03:57:52 AM

China and Russia are 2 countries that have strong economic power at this time, although Europe's plan to impose sanctions on Russia due to the invasion of Ukraine but I'm sure this will not have any impact because they have a strong ally, namely China. the plan to create a new world order is certainly a good idea to make the global economic position more stable.

Yes, after all Russia and China besides having strong economic power they are also big countries,
the two countries can be said to be able to stand alone without depending on other countries because they have a strong economy and sufficient resources,
this is interesting to discuss and let's see if the plan will materialize or not

Two countries alone can't make up a major trading bloc or come up with a new world order. Right now, only a handful of countries are on their side and these are mostly pariah states such as North Korea, Zimbabwe, Venezuela and Syria. Even traditional allies of Russia, such as Serbia and Bulgaria have now joined the NATO bloc. Fastest growing economies, such as Brazil, India, Indonesia and Nigeria remain opposed to the Russia-China alliance due to varying reasons (in case of India, as a result of the ongoing border dispute with China on Aksai Chin region).

Ozero

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Quote from: Pejoh Asu on April 13, 2022, 03:57:52 AM

China and Russia are 2 countries that have strong economic power at this time, although Europe's plan to impose sanctions on Russia due to the invasion of Ukraine but I'm sure this will not have any impact because they have a strong ally, namely China. the plan to create a new world order is certainly a good idea to make the global economic position more stable.

On the Russian Federation as an economically strong state, you can already put a big and bold cross. All Russia's imperial ambitions are slowly fading into the past, and this will become more and more noticeable over time. Putin and his entourage made a big strategic mistake by launching a military attack on Ukraine. Massive war crimes and the genocide of the Ukrainian people caused almost one-flock support for Ukraine by the world community. Russia has almost suffered a military defeat in Ukraine thanks to the help of weapons from countries that condemn such a large-scale aggression in the center of Europe.
In addition, sanctions, and especially the forthcoming embargo on energy resources from Russia, will throw this country almost back to the Middle Ages. China will not be Russia's partner. This country simply uses Russia for its own purposes and then abandons it, taking even larger territories of Russia, which it has long claimed.

bustabitsboy

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Quote from: DVlog on April 01, 2022, 01:40:08 AM

A new economic system is coming to the world and that system will not be dominated by the West. Russian Security Council Deputy Chairman Dmitry Medvedev (former Russian president) said in an interview with Russian media yesterday.

Quote

Medvedev said: "Hellish sanctions imposed on Russia by the United States, the EU, and their allies in the Ukraine conflict have failed to cripple Russia. Now, these sanctions are coming back to the West.

"As the West continues its futile efforts to corner Russia, the world is slowly moving towards a new global economic relationship. We are moving towards improving the financial system ', he added.

"Confidence in the reserve currency is fading like a morning mist and the prospect of the dollar and the euro leaving does not seem unrealistic now," Medvedev said.

High inflation rates weaken USD dominance for sure but are it really possible to replace USD as a reserve currency or the USA will allow that so easily? The era of regional currency is coming?

This is currently happening. Could we imagine a few years ago what we see today? It is profitable for any country in the world to sell their goods for their own currency. This saves a lot of money and contributes to the development of the country as a whole. I think that in the near future, it is clear that there will be four major powers - the USA, China, Russia and India. The rest of the countries will have to join them and be under their protection. Each group will have its own system of monetary relations and the order of interaction between countries.

Topic: Russia wants to build a new world order with China - page 2. (Read 848 times)