Russians collectively hold about $130b in crypto - page 2.

batang_bitcoin

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Quote from: EdenHazard on May 07, 2022, 11:01:37 AM

They are just showing to us that there is a safe haven .. an escape from the sanctions ... that there is a solution around them . not just showing certain numbers for nothing , could be mean they are holding nothing bbut bullshit , could be a serious one as well as they are planning to accept cryptocurrency as a payment method for the gas & oil exports.

What an extraordinary way in the middle of crypto community uncertainity. wish just it would happened.

We all thought about it and it's no secret so they have an option to avoid sanctions. Or not actually avoid it but an alternative that has been there sleeping and they've not noticed it before.
But now, that they're in an economic downturn, this is what they've leaning on and any country can do that. That's actually a big money that they've got in reserve on crypto.

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This Is huge especially from a country everyone is trying to distance themselves away from even so many crypto affiliated companies, I think right from time Russia has been interested and involved in the digital world so am not surprised that at this moment they are holding that amount.
But what does this signify, firstly we have to note that by this it means Russia are a crypto-Currency crazy country and this leads me to ask does sanctioning a country even it’s innocent citizens from carrying out their crypto-currency activities.

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Quote from: teosanru on May 07, 2022, 03:12:44 PM

I really doubt this data point, because this data would only be formed using the bank transactions of Many Russians which have added their money into the exchanges or wallets like coinbase for purchasing bitcoin, it will largely exclude information of those who have held it on a private key wallet and have received the bitcoins from some other method. Because it's impossible for Russian authorities to differentiate which wallets belong to Russians. and to be honest the private key holders must be the ones having the major chunk. As per an estimate done a few months back only 6% of total bitcoins are there on exchanges so calculating it that way $130B might just be 5-10% of the total Iceberg.

Although its pure speculation that could be what they are going by, or something similar.
i.e. all the exchanges that reported to them came to $13 billion. So multiply by 10 and come up with $130.
Since they will not say how they got the number, if we do believe it to be true, then it's as likely a scenario as any.

-Dave

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Quote from: romero121 on May 07, 2022, 03:50:50 AM

Quote from: Kakmakr on May 07, 2022, 02:56:09 AM

This is only from transactions that are known..... those transactions that went through Russian Exchanges. There are a lot of people that are earning Crypto currencies online and people that are receiving bitcoins and other Crypto currencies through P2P methods. Wink

The only time when bitcoins can be linked to Russian people, is when it touched regulated centralized services... or when those bitcoins are spend on products and services that link those customers to Russian citizens. Wink

I wonder what is going to happen once this war is over...... will we see a sudden dump ....or will it be a slow dump over a longer period. Huh

The war hasn't made a big impact over the market of Cryptocurrencies. Start of the war there is decline in the market and further the gradual growth happened reaching the price from which it dropped down. Further several steps were taken by the world countries to keep Russia isolated from the rest of the world. By the time usage of cryptocurrencies increased and this gave good awareness among the global population as everyone were looking for regular updates on the war. So, this time when war gets ended there won't be much of deviation in the market.

Crypto showed signs of decline before the war occurred, but the protracted war caused a global energy crisis and the world economy was affected by the war. So I think the war has more or less really affected the market today.
If the war ends, I don't dare say the market will grow strongly but surely the market will be much better than now because then the world economy will be somewhat stable.

teosanru

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Quote from: Nerdy doctor on April 27, 2022, 02:25:46 PM

The Russian prime minister has claimed that Russians collectively hold more 10 trillion rubles($130b) in cryptocurrencies like bitcoin. Lots of Russians probably bought bitcoin when it seemed like the ruble was going to nosedive due to the expected sanctions at the early phases of the war while some are buying cryptocurrencies to be able to get money out of the country

I really doubt this data point, because this data would only be formed using the bank transactions of Many Russians which have added their money into the exchanges or wallets like coinbase for purchasing bitcoin, it will largely exclude information of those who have held it on a private key wallet and have received the bitcoins from some other method. Because it's impossible for Russian authorities to differentiate which wallets belong to Russians. and to be honest the private key holders must be the ones having the major chunk. As per an estimate done a few months back only 6% of total bitcoins are there on exchanges so calculating it that way $130B might just be 5-10% of the total Iceberg.

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Quote from: DaveF on May 07, 2022, 06:57:44 AM

I don't see it as a lot of money for a country with a population that large.
There are about 145 million people living in Russia so it's only about $1000 a person.
Obviously most people hold $0 and a few hold $billions.

Oh, apologize but you are so very wrong with that calculation. In Russia, there live about 145 million people but the most important is to calculate the population in Moscow and Saint Petersburg because outside of these cities, there is no life in Russia. The population of Moscow is 12.7 million and in Saint Petersburg - 5.5 million persons. To summarize, the number we got is - 18.2 million - $8000

Okay, I had fun with calculation, let me tell you something:

73 percent of the total adult population of the country, had wealth under 10 thousand U.S. dollars in 2020 - Source: Statista
More than 17 million Russians, or about 12% of the total population, are cryptocurrency owners - Source: tripleA Believe me, majority of them will be from Moscow.
0.2 percent of Russian adults own more than one million USD - Definitely they live in Moscow and Saint Petersburg.

You may ask, why is this person mentioning only two cities? Because the Federal budget funds Moscow and Saint Petersburg while collecting the taxes from all cities.

Also, rule N1: Never trust the statistics of Kremlin!
In Russia, rich people are rich because of their governments, honest persons aren't that rich. Ask yourself, why aren't there any billionaires or millionaires against the war? Against the Putin? Because they benefit from corruption and nepotism. In a more democratic country, they would be fucked.

What if the west bans bitcoins and for the supportive reasons we all give up on it and move on new cryptocurrency? Russia will be left with bitcoins that have zero value in Roubles. They still don't analyze the importance of West economics and put too many hopes in China. No, China will only use Russia if any, they won't feed and keep alive Russia.

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Quote from: SpenserReed on May 07, 2022, 10:32:55 AM

Quote from: Nerdy doctor on April 27, 2022, 02:25:46 PM

The Russian prime minister has claimed that Russians collectively hold more 10 trillion rubles($130b) in cryptocurrencies like bitcoin. Lots of Russians probably bought bitcoin when it seemed like the ruble was going to nosedive due to the expected sanctions at the early phases of the war while some are buying cryptocurrencies to be able to get money out of the country

It seems to me that it is very difficult to make up an exact number of wallets by country, so the amount given doesn't mean anything Sad

They are just showing to us that there is a safe haven .. an escape from the sanctions ... that there is a solution around them . not just showing certain numbers for nothing , could be mean they are holding nothing bbut bullshit , could be a serious one as well as they are planning to accept cryptocurrency as a payment method for the gas & oil exports.

What an extraordinary way in the middle of crypto community uncertainity. wish just it would happened.

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Quote from: speedy963 on May 07, 2022, 02:05:07 AM

I feel you. This amount is quite huge even for a country as big as Russia.

The real number is probably much bigger as you should keep in mind that that estimate (and that's what it is, nothing else) includes all crypto currencies and Russians are very active on the crypto market, both as investors and as developers of various altcoin projects. I mean, just take a look at Russian local board, which is by far the most active board on the forum, despite the fact that they have to use VPN to ban it.

Quote from: Maestro75 on May 07, 2022, 10:21:21 AM

How is that possible? How will Binance know accounts of Russian relatives? Or did this ones submit next of kin to Binance on opening the accounts?

My guess is that those persons went through KYC on their platform so Binance didn't have much issues connecting them with Russian government officials.

Quote from: Maestro75 on May 07, 2022, 10:21:21 AM

I do not think it is true. It is a rumor.

Think again, its true.

Quote from: https://bitcoinist.com/binance-bans-accounts/

Binance said Polina Kovaleva, Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov’s stepdaughter, and Elizaveta Peskova, President Vladimir Putin’s representative Dmitry Peskov’s daughter, were among those barred over the last two months.
The cryptocurrency exchange also said that it had blocked Kirill Malofeyev, the son of Konstantin Malofeyev, a Russian oligarch previously charged with violating US sanctions.

SpenserReed

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Quote from: Nerdy doctor on April 27, 2022, 02:25:46 PM

The Russian prime minister has claimed that Russians collectively hold more 10 trillion rubles($130b) in cryptocurrencies like bitcoin. Lots of Russians probably bought bitcoin when it seemed like the ruble was going to nosedive due to the expected sanctions at the early phases of the war while some are buying cryptocurrencies to be able to get money out of the country

It seems to me that it is very difficult to make up an exact number of wallets by country, so the amount given doesn't mean anything Sad

Maestro75

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Quote from: Ozero on May 07, 2022, 12:10:14 AM

I think that due to the large-scale war unleashed by Russia in the center of Europe, its already obvious military defeat in Ukraine, the application of harsh international sanctions and the need to pay Ukraine the material damage caused by this war, the cryptocurrency reserves of Russian citizens will begin to decline rapidly.

The death toll from this war on both sides is what sanctions can not bring back to life, no matter how severe the sanctions are going to be. Putin must face genocide persecution if he escapes being killed in the war.

Quote from: speedy963 on May 07, 2022, 02:05:07 AM

And just a while ago, I have also read a post saying that binance has also went and took this banning thing a bit further by banning some relatives of Russian people that they can find despite it having nothing to do or not even being in the country of Russia instead.

How is that possible? How will Binance know accounts of Russian relatives? Or did this ones submit next of kin to Binance on opening the accounts? I do not think it is true. It is a rumor.

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Quote from: DaveF on May 07, 2022, 06:57:44 AM

I don't see it as a lot of money for a country with a population that large.
There are about 145 million people living in Russia so it's only about $1000 a person.
Obviously most people hold $0 and a few hold $billions.
Then you have all the scam exchanges (yobit and similar) all the scam casinos operating out of there. Add in all the money the state sponsored Russian ransomware gangs took in and it gets up there.

Russia also has (had? a lot have fled) a lot of really smart tech people. How many of them are sitting on 1000s of dollars of crypto? It does add up.

And a big question, does that number include Russians who are no longer in Russia? Ex pats who are living elsewhere.

-Dave

Is $1000 per capita not a lot, though? It's 7.5% of the total crypto market capitalization (if we take the total marketcap from a website like Coingecko). I think it's a very significant amount if it's actually true, but I have no idea how this could be calculated because I don't think Russians would actively report their crypto holdings to their government which is not very crypto-friendly and where cryptos are sort of in the gray area. By the way, about the $1000 per capita: if we divide the total marketcap by the total population of Earth, the number is $220 per capita. So the number for Russia is significantly above that.

DaveF

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I don't see it as a lot of money for a country with a population that large.
There are about 145 million people living in Russia so it's only about $1000 a person.
Obviously most people hold $0 and a few hold $billions.
Then you have all the scam exchanges (yobit and similar) all the scam casinos operating out of there. Add in all the money the state sponsored Russian ransomware gangs took in and it gets up there.

Russia also has (had? a lot have fled) a lot of really smart tech people. How many of them are sitting on 1000s of dollars of crypto? It does add up.

And a big question, does that number include Russians who are no longer in Russia? Ex pats who are living elsewhere.

-Dave

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Quote from: Nerdy doctor on April 27, 2022, 02:25:46 PM

The Russian prime minister has claimed that Russians collectively hold more 10 trillion rubles($130b) in cryptocurrencies like bitcoin.

Even if I don't believe this kind of news without a proof, I'm nearly convinced that's true since the governments like Russia know everything about their citizens. Previously, we had a Binance scandal wherein the CEO sold the personal data of the Russians to Putin. Now that.

Quote from: Nerdy doctor on April 27, 2022, 02:25:46 PM

Russians probably bought bitcoin when it seemed like the ruble was going to nosedive

But, do they? I'm sure most still use centralized exchanges, even though they recently got censored by Coinbase.

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Quote from: Kakmakr on May 07, 2022, 02:56:09 AM

This is only from transactions that are known..... those transactions that went through Russian Exchanges. There are a lot of people that are earning Crypto currencies online and people that are receiving bitcoins and other Crypto currencies through P2P methods. Wink

The only time when bitcoins can be linked to Russian people, is when it touched regulated centralized services... or when those bitcoins are spend on products and services that link those customers to Russian citizens. Wink

I wonder what is going to happen once this war is over...... will we see a sudden dump ....or will it be a slow dump over a longer period. Huh

The war hasn't made a big impact over the market of Cryptocurrencies. Start of the war there is decline in the market and further the gradual growth happened reaching the price from which it dropped down. Further several steps were taken by the world countries to keep Russia isolated from the rest of the world. By the time usage of cryptocurrencies increased and this gave good awareness among the global population as everyone were looking for regular updates on the war. So, this time when war gets ended there won't be much of deviation in the market.

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Quote from: speedy963 on May 07, 2022, 02:05:07 AM

centralized exchanges are now banning Russian people from using their services. And just a while ago, I have also read a post saying that binance has also went and took this banning thing a bit further by banning some relatives of Russian people that they can find despite it having nothing to do or not even being in the country of Russia instead.

Centralized exchanges would always work in this way, you can't use them and not expect to be censored, locked out of your funds, banned/account blocked for one reason or the other, even if you are not from Russia, and even if this war didn't happen, as long as you use centralized exchanges and store your funds in them, the funds are not yours, and they can pull up one policy against you at absolutely anytime, and you lose your funds, not to even talk of hacks. Overall Russian citizens who use Bitcoin/crypto should stay away from centralized exchanges, at least for now, if they want to buy and sell crypto they should do so through p2p outside of a centralized exchange.

Quote from: Kakmakr on May 07, 2022, 02:56:09 AM

I wonder what is going to happen once this war is over...... will we see a sudden dump ....or will it be a slow dump over a longer period. Huh

Or no dump at all.

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This is only from transactions that are known..... those transactions that went through Russian Exchanges. There are a lot of people that are earning Crypto currencies online and people that are receiving bitcoins and other Crypto currencies through P2P methods. Wink

The only time when bitcoins can be linked to Russian people, is when it touched regulated centralized services... or when those bitcoins are spend on products and services that link those customers to Russian citizens. Wink

I wonder what is going to happen once this war is over...... will we see a sudden dump ....or will it be a slow dump over a longer period. Huh

Fortify

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Quote from: Nerdy doctor on April 27, 2022, 02:25:46 PM

The Russian prime minister has claimed that Russians collectively hold more 10 trillion rubles($130b) in cryptocurrencies like bitcoin. Lots of Russians probably bought bitcoin when it seemed like the ruble was going to nosedive due to the expected sanctions at the early phases of the war while some are buying cryptocurrencies to be able to get money out of the country

It's a bit funny really, how politicians in Russia are caught between banning Bitcoin because it's something they cannot control in the economy and allowing people to use Bitcoin because it takes some of the pressure of sanctions off of the average Russian citizen. In Putin's style of authoritarian government, they like to have maximum control of peoples lives when possible, so they can exert all kinds of pressure - like freezing bank accounts, if it looks like somebody will not support them. It makes sense for the average person there to use Bitcoin because they are banned from the rest of the financial system, unless they want to trust some rather shady banks in other countries and the Ruble certainly won't go as far.

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Quote from: so98nn on May 07, 2022, 01:22:12 AM

Wow that is lot of rubles actually. I’m not surprised with the numbers considering the bitcoins trend. Since ruble is falling badly against USD the number could be different at the time of publication or calculation. Most of them might have identified with exchangers and bank transfer to the crypto accounts.

I don’t think their government has any issues with such amount being invested in the crypto. After war situations even escalated to another level, like we have crypto we have secured funds (May be?). Like we do Gold in the crisis.

I feel you. This amount is quite huge even for a country as big as Russia. It would have been better though had they not announced this since it maybe because of this being publicized that major centralized exchanges are now banning Russian people from using their services. And just a while ago, I have also read a post saying that binance has also went and took this banning thing a bit further by banning some relatives of Russian people that they can find despite it having nothing to do or not even being in the country of Russia instead. And so, I guess crypto really isn't something that we should see as an all around solution but instead, one of the other alternatives to secure funds.

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Wow that is lot of rubles actually. I’m not surprised with the numbers considering the bitcoins trend. Since ruble is falling badly against USD the number could be different at the time of publication or calculation. Most of them might have identified with exchangers and bank transfer to the crypto accounts.

I don’t think their government has any issues with such amount being invested in the crypto. After war situations even escalated to another level, like we have crypto we have secured funds (May be?). Like we do Gold in the crisis.

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Quote from: Nerdy doctor on April 27, 2022, 02:25:46 PM

The Russian prime minister has claimed that Russians collectively hold more 10 trillion rubles($130b) in cryptocurrencies like bitcoin. Lots of Russians probably bought bitcoin when it seemed like the ruble was going to nosedive due to the expected sanctions at the early phases of the war while some are buying cryptocurrencies to be able to get money out of the country

No doubt with cryptocurrency as best investment assets and not come from usually investor but also many politician interested with bitcoin and altcoin as future investment assets. But better when giving some information exactly holding more 10 trillion rubles($130b) have source information link, will make some member here believe with your statement about there have Russia person hold bitcoin assets with higher amount, become worth when around countries believe with bitcoin as best investment way and make price will back higher.

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