Topic: Sadness (Read 3609 times)

I use dot matrix printers every day.  I need them, and so does everyone who prints on 2-part or 3-part forms.  So your analogy is fitting, since it shows how you declare things worthless when you are blindly ignorant of relevant facts.

Then you dig yourself deeper by talking about the worth of a dot matrix printer in terms of resale value.  I bought it because I needed to use it, and it has already paid for itself many times over by saving the time and ink it would have cost to print everything twice.  I have personally printed hundreds of thousands of 2-part pages on dot matrix printers in the past 10 years.

Plus, dot matrix printers are still the best in terms of speed for certain applications.  Sometimes they are worth more than other printers.  All the companies that still sell ink ribbons aren't doing it because they're delusional.

As for your inability to understand plain logic, I think you're playing dumb.  Yes, 1 bitcoin is 1 bitcoin.  First you act like you don't know that, and then you say it's so obvious that it's not worth saying.  But then you take the time to point out that 1000 minus 800 is 200.  Very good, you can do math when it suits you.  

But you still can't determine the worth of something when you don't have enough relevant information.  And you don't.  

I admit, your hindsight is very good.  You now know that people could've waited and bought bitcoins cheaper.  Good boy, very smart.  But for some uses, such as buying certain altcoins, 1 Bitcoin still buys the same amount as it bought several months ago.  So it turns out that Bitcoin does have value completely separate from its price in dollars.

For me, Bitcoin is like a dot matrix printer.  I bought it because I needed to start using it immediately, I got my money's worth, and I'll buy more as I need them no matter what the current price.  Of course, since I anticipate needing them in the future, I might buy extra if I think I'm getting a good buy.  Maybe I'll be wrong and they'll be even cheaper next month, but either way I still need them for things that are worth more than I paid.

Get it?  Of course you don't.  But if I need 1 dot matrix printer to do $5000 worth of work over the next year, $1000 is a good price.  If the price later changes to $200, that doesn't take away my printer or the value of the work the printer does.  And I don't want to spend 6 months without a printer while I'm waiting for the price to drop, so I still don't regret paying $1000.  It was still a good buy, unless you want to lend me your time machine so I can take a currently-priced $200 printer back to myself last year.

Here's your quiz to see if you learned anything:  If I buy 1 dot matrix printer for $1000, and it saves me $5000 over 1 year, and then the price drops to $200 - how much money have I lost?  How many dot matrix printers do I have left, after the change in market price?

If I buy 1btc for $1000 and use it to place a buy wall on an altcoin exchange, bolstering buyer confidence and driving the price up, allowing me to sell my altcoin for an additional $5000 profit without actually spending any of the 1btc, then I still have 1btc and $4000 extra dollars.  How much did I "lose" using your math?

I just saw a similar situation yesterday at Cryptsy.  Fractalcoin has been at 1999 satoshis for weeks, but somebody put 1BTC at 1997.  It influenced people, even though .96BTC of it is still there, and the price immediately went to 2499 where it still is today.  Fractalcoin is limited to 1 million coins, and block reward is 1 coin.  The only way to get a lot of them is with Bitcoin.  It doesn't matter how much that guy paid for his 1BTC, it served the same purpose and is worth the same to him as it would have been a few months ago.  And that 1BTC can buy more Fractalcoin today than it could buy a few months ago, so for that purpose Bitcoin is worth more than it was worth a few months ago.

I don't think either way is going to make anyone who bought at $1k feel any better about their situation. Although scenario 2 is much more accurate

Just don't check price for month, you will be a lot more happy

you are gonna laugh and laugh and laugh again some more in the near future. don't worry too much about it just laugh some more

Correct.    Stating 'I have 1 bitcoin, which means I still have 1 bitcoin until I decide to sell' is nothing but a philosophical retort.  

I can sit here all day and retort with,  'I still have life until the time I die.'

But just having 1 bitcoin in cold storage...still has a 'real world' dollar and utility purchasing power value less than what you purchased it for (if this is indeed the case)



Placing a sentimental or emotional value higher than that might be an offsetting moral victory for some in the face of financial loss.  That's certainly fine.  

To each their own.

Let's say you had $1000 and you bought one bitcoin and now it is worth $200. There are two ways to look at it without being delusional:

1. You have $0 and 1 bitcoin, but "you don't lose until you sell".

In this case, you lost $1000 when you bought the bitcoin. According to you, you have a bitcoin that has no value until you sell it. You have $0 plus a bitcoin worth nothing, so you lost $1000. You may gain some money back when you sell the bitcoin, but in the meantime you lost $1000.

2. Mark-to-market: you have $0 and $200 worth of bitcoins.

In this case you effectively have $200 because you can exchange the bitcoin for $200. You lost $800.

I will agree there.  But as per their function and utility as a unit, they are a far cry from 2+ decades ago.  But damn, at the time...dot matrix printers was like wizzardry compared to typewriters lol.

They are awesome parts sources for 3D printers, especially the wide carriage ones.

I have no idea what you just said.

If you sell 1 bitcoin for $500 but purchased it at $1,000, you took a net loss of $500.

1 bitcoin is 1 bitcoin if you hold it.  Is this a philosophical attempt at logic?  

That's like saying 1 dot matrix printer is 1 dot matrix printer.  It still doesn't detract from the fact it's damn near worthless in both utility and resale price from when it was originally purchased.

Your 'my 1 bitcoin is still 1 bitcoin' mentality is nothing but a hoarder mentality.  Meaning, you will be the first to catch fire once the train leaves the station, because you bought a ticket, but never used it.  Thus, it's basically worthless, because you never even used it for its intended use.  It's worth simply the intrinsic value of the piece of paper itself (or in your case, a few bytes of data on a harddrive).

I think you have a hard time distinguishing between sentimental worth and purchasing power.  Perhaps you should have straightened that out before you 'invested' in bitcoin.  

People HODLING for ages remind me of those people hoarding retro release Air Jordans and call themselves shoe heads.  They say they're the best shoes ever made, hype them to the moon on forums, but have not even so much as taken the wrapping off the package, for fear they'll destroy 'future resale value.'   That's not a belief or use of technology, that's blind hype investing.  

There's a fine, fine difference between the two, and it's easy to tell who's who in this bitcoin game simply by what they type.  Guess which category you and the OP fall?

1 - 0 = "it depends"

+1
I think you nailed it.

No, what I said doesn't assume anything.  It's plain English and logic.

If you want 1 Bitcoin for $1000, you lose $1000 and gain 1 Bitcoin when you buy.

If you don't sell the 1 Bitcoin, the changes in the market don't magically take away your 1 Bitcoin.

If you sell that 1 Bitcoin for $2000, you have lost 100% of your Bitcoin.

If you want to talk about opportunity costs, compare it to a vacation that costs you $1000 and 180 hours of your time.  Can you later sell that vacation for $500, or get back any of your lost time?  No, but if you sell your 1 Bitcoin for $500, then you're $500 richer than if you had spent that $1000 on a vacation. 

> assuming the price will ever recover to the same levels you bought in at
> assuming you'll have the sanity to actually sell when/if that point ever comes, seeing as many of you didn't sell the first time around when you should have




So riddle me this dillusional HODLERS...if this is nothing more than a long term 'belief' in technology, but you aren't even using the technology, and just codling it like a baby in cold storage, then what is the point of you even having bitcoin?  I thought the entire purpose was for its usage.  That's not using it.

And oh wait, it gets better! To actually use it, means its purchasing power is still tied directly to fiat...meaning you're taking a loss at current market levels.  So in essence, what you're really waiting for is 'TO DA MOON,' meaning some unrealistic messiah shill levels of like "$100,000 per coin...I guarantee it!!!!!"




TL;DR:

ITT: shill 'investors' hiding behind a guise of belief in technology and 'changin da system yo!'

Good luck with that pipe dream lolllllllllll.

I feel you a little.

If you bought and now your stuff is worth more according to market prices. You are in safe position and don't need to worry about the future, and if something bad happens or a better investing opportunity appears, you won't be in a loss position

If you bought and now is at loss, then if something bad happens and you have to cash out then you will be at loss. And there is always a chance the value will never recover.

I understand why OP is sad and worried.

I couldn't agree more mate .
That's true , you won't lose anything unless you start selling which you shouldn't do of course , just hold your coins and wait till the price rise like crazy 

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=analogy

Well that's not how every hodler looks at it. People owning bitcoin before the boom of 2013 regret selling before the price rise. I can see where the guy saying You don't lose till you sell. is coming from. He's clrarly a believer into the longterm success of bitcoin. I wouldn't call that delusional.

You think you're being sarcastic, but your actual advice is to buy high and sell low "so you won't lose it".

It's bad when your mocking scorn is the same thing as your own investment strategy.

"You don't lose till you sell."
So right! Are you interested in my super-guaranteed toilet fund?

Instructions to invest:
1) put your money in the toilet
2) flush
3) ?
4) profit

The fund is 100% guaranteed, you will not lose anything until you sell!