Topic: Safest Wallet for BTC without Fee - page 2. (Read 441 times)

Again, I'd argue the opposite. I think paper wallets are one of the hardest to set up properly and securely, and one of the easiest to go wrong with. Lots of people create them on a live website, or an offline website on an internet enabled device, which is hardly much better. Even turning off your internet doesn't do much, as any malware can just send whatever it needs to next time an internet connection is re-established. You need, at a minimum, to download and boot in to what is probably an unfamiliar OS for a newbie, and create your paper wallet on that. You also need to remove traces of the wallet from your printer. After you've made it, it is pretty unique among wallets in that you can lose all your coins permanently if you don't set up your transaction properly.

An airgapped wallet, on the other hand, can be a simple as installing Electrum (or similar) on an old laptop, and creating a watch only wallet on your main computer.

Having said all that, for brand new newbies, I'd probably suggest a hardware wallet in the first instance, since you can just follow the instructions to use one and they require very little technical know how.

For a new user who has never used Bitcoin before (or barely knows about it), isn't it easier to start out with a paper wallet and then moving on to an airgapped one? The latter sounds more complex to be used. I'm only talking from a new user's perspective, not from ours.

Disagree. Permanently airgapped wallets are easy to use. Making a transaction from my airgapped wallets takes me less than a minute longer than doing so from a desktop hot wallet - create transaction on watch only wallet, display QR code, scan QR code to airgapped device, sign transaction, display QR code, scan QR back to live device, broadcast. I can spend any fraction of coin I like, and after I've spent, my airgapped wallet is still fine to be used again and again. With a paper wallet I have to spend everything in it at once, and then create a brand new paper wallet from scratch afterwards. I'd say paper wallets are the least convenient of all.

In addition to the good advice above about offline devices, you also need to use an offline, preferably "dumb" printer, which doesn't have WiFi and doesn't store a history of files it has printed in its memory.

There is a list of good security precautions for paper wallets here: https://bitcoinpaperwallet.com/#security

To clear this up for you, OP: a PROPERLY generated paper wallet means a wallet generated on an offline computer. You can generate an offline wallet on an internet-connected PC, but that puts your private keys at risk. For example, you can boot a Live Linux CD and use the offline paper wallet generator to print your keys. A Linux Live CD resets the system and erases any change or file you've made as soon as you shut down or restart your PC.

The paper wallets aren't very inconvenient in my opinion. They're the free option you have to put your funds in a cold storage. Ledger/Trezor are way better, of course, but they come with a cost you might not want to have unless you have a considerable amount of BTC/alts you own.

Airgapped PCs are way more inconvenient than paper wallets and paper wallets are more inconvenient than hardware wallets.

Remember one thing though: if you choose to use paper wallets, make sure you spend the ENTIRETY of your funds from your paper wallet when sweeping it. When you create a transaction smaller than your balance, there is a "change address" your change goes to. These addresses are generated through your seed. If you only have a private key, you will NOT own the change address your funds will go to! So take care.

EDIT: a shorter explanation of my last statement:
If you send the following funds TO your paper wallet:
- 0.1BTC
- 0.2BTC
Then you will have a balance of 0.3BTC sitting in your paper wallet. When you decide to finally spend money from your paper wallet, send only ONE transaction containing 0.3BTC. Don't send less, because you might lose the change.

A PROPERLY generated, bip38 encrypted paper wallet is defenatetly a secure option if it's generated using a peer-reviewed, offline wallet generator.
However, the big drawback is that a paper wallet is rather impractical to use... Every time you want to use your paper wallet, you need to import the private key into a different wallet, spend, create a new paper wallet, empty out the wallet to fund your new paper wallet, rinse, repeat...

But yes, airgapped wallets, paper wallets and hardware wallets are all considered secure

and paperwallet?

100% safety doesn't exist... However, there's a huuuuuuge²⁵⁶ difference between using an online wallet and a hardware wallet.
Sure, in the past certain attack vectors were found for certain types of hardware wallets, but afaik, those attack vectors were always rather far-fetched. Usually, the attacker has to have physical access to your device to begin with.
There is a big contrast to many other types of wallets, with attack vectors including: "not owning your own keys, phishing, software vulnerability's, seed phrases being sent to a remote server in cleartext,...

It's not because a hardware wallet only offers 99,99% security you should ever consider using a wallet that offers 50% security because 99,99% isn't 100%*

*numbers only shown to make a point, they are not based on measurements...

I am exploring all options safe or paid to store coins or to mine it. I have heard people saying that trezor and other hardware wallets are also not fully safe?

By reading your post history I see you're getting ready for mining and that you have $100k to invest, but at the same time you ask for some free to use wallet? Invest $50 in a hardware wallet and sleep peacefully, and this is the best advice you can get for free. However, if you want to take the risk you can play with Electrum and similar wallets, but keep in mind that free solutions are often the most expensive at the end. One mistake and your coins are in hacker wallet.

Thanks for all insights

The only places that charge additional fees are Exchanges, Gambling Sites and other web-based service providers... who are obviously centralised and use "custodial" wallets.

Get yourself a copy of Electrum here: https://electrum.org/#download

It has a lot of features that allow full control of everything... it's lightweight and relatively user friendly and there is a fairly active community here that will answer any questions you may have: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=98.0

It's also in active development: https://github.com/spesmilo/electrum

So any issues identified with it get fixed promptly.

If you don't mind investing some money in a wallet go for a Ledger or a Trezor hardware wallet.
If you want a wallet you can use as soon as you install and configure it, take a look at Electrum. Download only from the official site and make sure you have verified the signatures before running it.
If you want to help the Bitcoin network and don't mind downloading the entire blockchain and syncing for a few days, (depending on your hardware and internet speed) look into Bitcoin Core.

Make sure you avoid storing your crypto on exchanges and web wallets. If you decide to use a software wallet make sure the device you install it on is clean and malware free. 

Well miner fee is fine but not the additional fee which are charged by exchanges like coinbase etc

and most importantly the security of wallet that it should be completely in my control and 100% safe to store/send/receive BTC

Web based/desktop and mobile

No. All transactions will require a fee to be able to propagate across the network as most nodes will reject 0 fee transactions. Unless you know a miner/mining pool willing to include transactions on your behalf, 0 fee transactions are a thing of the past.

What you want is a wallet that allows completely customisable fees... that way you can set whatever you want (greater than 0 obviously!), like 1 sat/byte. Plenty of good wallets allow this. Are you wanting desktop or mobile or hardware? Full Node or SPV?

There are 2 kinds of fees: fees payed to the wallet developer and fees you pay to the miner to give them an incentive to include your transaction into the block they're currently trying to solve.

AFAIK, there are no popular wallets left that charge a fee that goes to the developer. However, every wallet will add a miner's fee to every transaction you make, simply because a transaction without a fee doesn't get propagated trough the network anymore, and even if it did: no miner would add it to the block they're trying to solve.

Examples of good wallets:
- trezor (any model)
- ledger (any model)
- bitcoin core
- electrum
- https://www.bitaddress.org/

Do realise that if you keep your funds in an ONLINE wallet, or an EXCHANGE, they DO sometimes ask extra fees that go to them (and are not used to pay the miners). This isn't even the worst part of using an online or exchange wallet... The worst part is that you're not in controll of your keys, so you're not in controll of your funds...

Is there any safest, 100% decentralized, and free to use wallet for BTC?