Topic: Same topic different year (Read 1770 times)

Would have been appropriate to read the OP or at least focus on comprehension. The main point was the fundamental mindset of bear v bull hasn't changed irrespective of price or anything else.

My opinion was tacked on ie, that the $ invested in the ecosystem should be a positive in the future.


Your comprehension is poor. Never mentioned this as / is a guarantee, rather, I wrote that because something happened in 2011 or 2013 does not mean (guarantee) it will happen again.

You're also questioning comparisons to market caps and whether they are worthwhile; if a digital token / payment system, often compared to digital gold, is adopted by a larger part of the world than it is today, then it is reasonable (or at least just interesting) to map out possible future market caps. Humans are greedy and love to calculate future imagined gains (this also leads people to hold over sell)

Further do any use cases justify a higher market cap? This comes with the assumption that some of the millions in VC money fleshes out answers / alternatives to some issues. Remittance is a 50bn global industry, for one. Smart contracts another. Saving 5% on retail is good enough if you ask me. Content subscription, micropayments etc. All these have issues right now but the friction may be solved soon. Then they will be coupled to the current range of uses mentioned above.

This is true.  Just hit the ignore button.  It's really easy.

Yup. And we are going to be stuck for a long while at a down price just like what happened before the first 1k rally.

I didn't say bitcoin's marketcap is high in absolute terms. Such a thing doesn't make sense. It is high for what it is.
Sure, gold's marketcap is around $8 trillions, bitcoin's marketcap is peanuts compared to that.
The real questions are: "should we make a comparison between the two marketcaps in the first place?"
"Why would rich entities from the financial industry put money into this?"

What use cases are you talking about? Do they justify a high marketcap (think about that twice)?

It's unlikely to boost the price considering its fundamentals and what it is in general.

With you so far, though not sure how to take your failing to mention/sidestepping the obvious unique use scenarios responsible for BTC's initial adoption, e.g. dope, child pr0nz & marketing scams (see:  Securities section of this forum).


This is where you lose me.
Bitcoin's main appeal was its obscurity/irrelevancy/insignificance.  It was a crime against which no laws have been written yet, what's euphemistically referred to as "legal gray area."

Stressing, of course, the word "yet." 'Coz recently Bitcoin did get big enough for authorities to bother with (~2 years ago).  This resulted in ...what's the word for scammers/criminals I'm looking for?  Oh yeah... Bitcoin entrepreneurs[/s] getting owned, and subsequent BTC price tanking.

TL;DR:  This thing's pretty much done.  Why would teh rich want your bag?

No. It is never worth feeding trolls. Shut the fuck up. They can only exist where people take their bait. We have the trolls we deserve, and it is your fault.

Bla bla bla bla, dont you got better things to do in youre schit life than talking trash over and over again?

the only troll really arguing so it is worth an answer.

I think the same argument, that it takes significantly more money to go higher was used in every phase of bitcoin and it was and is true. but it does not really matter.

look bitcoin maybe has 1 million users, maybe little more. the user group is mostly grounded on speculators, libertarians, as well as tech savvy guys.

the next group integrated will probably be from the financial industry or the rich, this alone would boost bitcoin. I think that it is possible that bitcoin fails to integrate new groups, but from an economist perspective it does not make much sense, since there are exclusive use cases in bitcoin.

take a step back and compare the market cap to other financial or precial metals caps and do your conclusions.

bitcoin may fail or is already saturated, but to say it will fail because it is impossible to boost the price since it is already high is complete nonsense.

I wouldn't say "everyone" expects that....a few people that were there in 2011 maybe, not all of them, and not much of the noobs that joined in 2013/14.

Personally I've been shorting BTC since months...and I've never been that anxious.

I agree completely - The only thing that's bothering me is that everyone expects things to play out like 2011+ That means there's still a lot of hope out there. But then again, the bleeding year that lies behind us has done its best to crush everyone's spirits to desperation. We're at a turning point.

If you ask me, the "infrastructure" bulls keep mentioning doesn't sound like a guarantee at all.

I mean, what is this infrastructure anyway? A whole bunch of merchants accepting USD from a payment processor through a bitcoin dump that has the only result to generate more selling pressure out of pure self-promotion?
A bunch of ATMs around the globe with 10% fee among scams or scandals like Robocoin?
ETFs that are taking forever to come out?
Second market investment trust fund that has investors that can't liquidate holding stuck with their bags watching the price go down?
"Regulated exchanges" nobody uses like coinbase with "to the moon" slogans and countdowns that generate pump&dumps like we lately saw?
Bad VC money invested in bitcoin companies that can go puff tomorrow like Neo&Bee and countless others?
Mining companies going bankrupt?

I don't know about all that "infrastructure".

Another note:


About the famous bears you permabulls like to call out like the ones here who said that bitcoin was a bubble in 2011 when prices were around $2-$32 but pumped higher anyway.
The fact that price pumped doesn't mean they were wrong.

Sure, if they clearly said "we are going nowhere but down" they were wrong because price pumped, but their main argument (bitcoin is a bubble) is not proven wrong just because the price was pumped&dumped a few times.

Looking at the current linear all time chart, they kinda had a point right?



remember

all time chart in 2011 ≠  all time chart now


They look similar, but the situation and scale is totally different.
Keep thinking that you should expect a new bull market just because it happened in the past at your own peril  

The more it goes up, the more difficult it is to continue the exponential trend  

Stop it with these topics.


When price was 100X less what it is now, when it was still in its early/novelty phase, when a lot of people around the world who could have been interested in getting involved in bitcoin never even heard of it (they heard of it in november-december 2013, to then become what are now the r/bitcoin bagdholers, that offered a dumping ground for early adopters to cash out), when just a little injection of fiat coming in the space was able to pump it orders of magnitude higher, bitcoin recovered!
Whoop-de-fucking-do!


When are you going to understand that pumping from $2 to the old ATH of $32 in 2011 is no the same as pumping now at $220 to the old current of $1200?
That it takes amounts of new money coming in that are exponentially higher and the landscape that allows for pumps to happen is totally different?

When a bubble/pump&dump reaches an unsustainable level considering existent demand and possible future demand it stops going up, and it crashes back down to never reach that high point ever again. That's how bubbles work.
Clearly that point for bitcoin was not $2. Was it $1200? Who knows, but very possible


Bitcoiners: thinking than bubbles/P&Ds go up forever since 2010.






^^^^^^^^^^
This.


People, just stop saying "it happened in 2011, history will just repeat itself and the bitcoin bubbles will go on forever to 102981 trillions".
It makes you look like a jackass.

Who knows, it might (I doubt it), what I am saying is that y'all should stop taking it for granted or as a very likely scenario just because it happened in 2011  

Fiat money is not stable either. Just a few months ago the dollar was worth 5.5 of my local currency. Today it's 6.6. It has been 7 in the past and may for all any of us know go over that in a little while.

There is money to be made trading this shit. It's completely normal. And it is one of the things that will, do in fact, attract money people.

"always" and "ever" are the best ways to get rid of your money

the men are still there, but things are no more the same ones.

Thats actually not a good thing imo, as a lot of people/merchants decline to  use it because then it becomes a gamble.

What is new is the rise of just like last time topics.

it's not 2011 anymore

To OP's point: Correct, the arguments around here don't change much. One difference vs 2011, though, is that over multi-year timescales, the bulls have now been proven right.