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Topic: Satoshi Dice - how to last longer - page 3. (Read 21196 times)

legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1333
July 21, 2012, 12:38:53 PM
#2
Nice post!  There are a couple of things I'd improve about it, and since it's a quality post maybe it's worth fixing/clarifying the OP:

2. Don't use this strategy for games where p > 0.5

Define p before using it.  I'm not sure if it's my chance of winning or losing at this point.

1. Let number of rounds  you want to play = "rounds"

In the previous thread, you were using 'round' to refer to "a sequence of plays ending in a win".  I think now you may be using it to mean "a single bet, win or lose".  Is that right?  With martingale betting each round (a sequence of plays ending in a win) ends with a net win equal to your initial bet.  (-1 + -2 + -4 + -8 + 16 == 1) so people may have a target number of these kinds of rounds, giving a target net win.  Or they may have a certain amount of time, and so a target number of bets.  Best to make it clear which you're talking about.

4. Let the multiplier each round after a loss be "m", m = 1/q

I think I need to multipy by a little more than 1/q to recoup my losses.  If the house edge was 0% then multiplying by 1/q would be enough, but it's not.  To keep the net win the same whenever the win happens, define m = 1/(1 - 1/mult) where mult is the payout multiplier.  This still ignores the fact that you're paid half a percent of your stake when you lose, and are charged 0.0005 BTC on every payout, win or lose).
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I have only one coin to spare and a days to spare
donator
Activity: 2058
Merit: 1007
Poor impulse control.
July 21, 2012, 08:00:11 AM
#1
After this discussion with dooglus about the probability of 'n' coin tosses in a row, and then watching a forum member getting excited abut winning on Satoshi Dice using the Martingale strategy and subsequently losing it all, I thought it a good idea to present a safe way to use the Martingale strategy to minimise your losses, and play the game for longer.

This is not an endorsement of gambling, but a way to gamble more safely and longer. The method does not guarantee a win, but it does make sure you're less likely to lose more than you'd want to.

The basic idea is to determine the number of times you want to gamble and the maximum amount of coin you can stand to lose. Then, using the probability of a win for the game you're playing, calculate the starting gamble and multiplier which will allow you the best chance of lasting the number of bets you'd like to play.

Here's the strategy:

1. Choose a game with a particular price multiplier to play. Let r = the price multiplier
2. Let total number of times you want to make a bet on this game = "bets".
3. Let maximum amount of coin willing to lose = "max"
4. p is probability of winning the game you're playing, q is the probability of losing the same game, q = 1 - p
5. Let the amount by which you multiply each bet after a loss be "m", m = 1/(1 - 1/r)
6. Let expected losses in a row be "n", n  = -log(bets*p + 1)/log(q)
7. Let "init" be the ideal starting amount to gamble (in the absence of transaction fees and 0.5% return on loss = max/sum(m^(1:n))

Generally, transaction fees and return on loss have little effect on the strategy. However, if you would like to take them into account:

7. Let "init" be the starting amount to gamble when taking account fees and 0.5% return on loss,
init = (max - n * 0.0005)/(sum(m^(1:n))*(1 - sum(m^(1:(n-1)))/(sum(m^(1:n)))*0.005))
8. Calculate:
 (1-(init*m^n*r - 0.0005)/(init*m^n*r))*100

This is the percentage of winnings lost to fees after an expected win (after n losses in a row). If this is too high, choose either higher max or lower number of bets and try again.


Warning: This strategy will only prevent you losing more than a maximum amount in the same order of magnitude as the one you selected. There's a lot of variance in the game, and sometimes you may lose much more - especially if p > 0.5 or your maximum is large. It works quite well with small maximum btc amounts.

For example, playing a the price multiplier = 8x  game, wanting to bet 100 times and wanting to lose a maximum of 1 btc, not taking into account fees or returns on losses:


1. r = 8
2. bets = 100
3. max = 1 btc
4. p = 8000/65536, q = 1 - p
5. m = 1 / (1 - 1 / r)
6. n = round(-log (bets * p + 1) / log( q ))
7. init = max / sum( m ^ ( 1 : n ) )
8. % fee loss = (1-(init * m ^ n * r - 0.0005)/(init * m ^ n * r)) * 100


then
m = 1.142857
init = 0.009294345
% fee loss = 0.04653956%

As above, with fees and return on loss:

7. init = max / sum( m ^ ( 1 : n ) )
8. % fee loss = (1-(init * m ^ n * r - 0.0005)/(init * m ^ n * r)) * 100

then
m = 1.142857
init = 0.009241403
% fee loss = 0.04680618%

Below are some simulations of martingale betting on Satoshi Dice using the strategy  outlined in this post. They show the usefulness of the strategy when you use a low max, as compared with the standard nightingale (start with 1btc, double each time you lose).







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