Satoshi forces the price of bitcoin to continue to rise over time

odolvlobo

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Quote from: fuguebtc on April 17, 2024, 11:19:14 PM

Also , I still have a question, even we can know that bitcoin becoming a currency will never happen because the government will never let it happen . The government is still the one who controls this world and they will still be the one who decides what bitcoin will become, this is something that everyone understands and I think Satoshi has definitely thought about this. Satoshi was wise enough to realize that, so it wouldn't be entirely correct if he created bitcoin with the sole purpose of becoming a currency . I still believe he also plans to make bitcoin an asset if it fails to become a currency.

When you write "the government", which government are you referring to? Do you really believe that this government controls the entire world? Anyway, satoshi is gone and his plans are irrelevant, except to those who worship him.

Kelward

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Satoshi Nakamoto, created Bitcoin and disappeared from the scene, I don't think that he has any manipulative influence about what the Bitcoin price will be at anytime, therefore there's no way he could force the price to continue increasing after every halving. The driving force behind Bitcoin price increase after every halving is the forces of supply and demand, and also adoption, if the awareness and adoption of Bitcoin is not increasing and the asset is not in high demand, then there's nothing that halving can do about it. Bitcoin price is increasing geometrically and in high demand because everyday more people are seeing it as a reputable crypto and a store of value.

fuguebtc

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Quote from: Fundamentals Of on April 15, 2024, 09:22:15 AM

Quote from: fuguebtc on April 15, 2024, 08:09:52 AM

Quote from: Fundamentals Of on April 15, 2024, 06:37:26 AM

I think Satoshi didn't include halving in the design of Bitcoin for its price to rise. I guess the design was simply imitating the way gold mining works. As mining goes on, the gold deposits on the earth dwindle, and so the new additional supply also decreases. This is how Bitcoin mining works as well. As mining goes on, the reward decreases over time.

I don't see this as a weakness though. And I also don't agree that public trust on Bitcoin is based on high price. Although there is that portion in the community, they don't represent the public. Bitcoin has features. These features are the main reasons why people are behind Bitcoin.

But if he relies on the principle of gold to create a halving event for bitcoin, then he clearly wants bitcoin to increase in value over time because the scarcity factor also helps gold increase in price over time.

Although in the bitcoin whitepaper , he only mentioned it as a peer-to-peer currency, other than that , we cannot be sure that he does not want bitcoin to become an asset like gold. We cannot know what his thoughts were, but given what was going on, I cannot rule out the possibility that Satoshi also intended to turn bitcoin into an asset and not really a currency.

Probably because Satoshi knew very well how the fiat system would kill the value of money. Scarcity or finitude was there to address this. A fix supply in Bitcoin's design is probably grounded on the fact that money shouldn't be as easy to inflate as fiat. Otherwise he's not really addressing the never-ending rising of prices of goods and services and the devaluation of money.

Satoshi designed Bitcoin to be a currency and a currency is also an asset at the same time. So I guess this isn't something that we should be confused about. Satoshi definitely wanted Bitcoin to be an asset.

Also , I still have a question, even we can know that bitcoin becoming a currency will never happen because the government will never let it happen . The government is still the one who controls this world and they will still be the one who decides what bitcoin will become, this is something that everyone understands and I think Satoshi has definitely thought about this. Satoshi was wise enough to realize that, so it wouldn't be entirely correct if he created bitcoin with the sole purpose of becoming a currency . I still believe he also plans to make bitcoin an asset if it fails to become a currency.

Wiwo

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Quote from: simons_js on April 12, 2024, 05:00:57 AM

Halving is a way for satoshis to force the price of bitcoin to continue to rise over time. The fewer rewards given to miners will make bitcoins harder to obtain and rarer as time goes by. This is a smart strategy that Satoshi had and I just realized it.

The weakness of this strategy is that when Bitcoin fails to reach a high price after the halving until the next halving occurs, this can damage public trust and also harm miners. However, this weakness no longer applies because Bitcoin always has a new ATH at every halving phase that occurs. So, I believe the price of bitcoin will continue to skyrocket in the future.

What do you think?

This could be a wrong assumptioanal thought's because there is no anytime that it is clearly stated that bitcoin halving is aimed and increasing the price of Bitcoin, the whitepaper only mentioned that the block rewards for minners will reduced into half each time bitcoin blocksieze reach a certain blocks.

So we need to understand the difference between the price of Bitcoin and it relationship with the price of Bitcoin and at what time.

Fundamentals Of

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Quote from: fuguebtc on April 15, 2024, 08:09:52 AM

Quote from: Fundamentals Of on April 15, 2024, 06:37:26 AM

I think Satoshi didn't include halving in the design of Bitcoin for its price to rise. I guess the design was simply imitating the way gold mining works. As mining goes on, the gold deposits on the earth dwindle, and so the new additional supply also decreases. This is how Bitcoin mining works as well. As mining goes on, the reward decreases over time.

I don't see this as a weakness though. And I also don't agree that public trust on Bitcoin is based on high price. Although there is that portion in the community, they don't represent the public. Bitcoin has features. These features are the main reasons why people are behind Bitcoin.

But if he relies on the principle of gold to create a halving event for bitcoin, then he clearly wants bitcoin to increase in value over time because the scarcity factor also helps gold increase in price over time.

Although in the bitcoin whitepaper , he only mentioned it as a peer-to-peer currency, other than that , we cannot be sure that he does not want bitcoin to become an asset like gold. We cannot know what his thoughts were, but given what was going on, I cannot rule out the possibility that Satoshi also intended to turn bitcoin into an asset and not really a currency.

Probably because Satoshi knew very well how the fiat system would kill the value of money. Scarcity or finitude was there to address this. A fix supply in Bitcoin's design is probably grounded on the fact that money shouldn't be as easy to inflate as fiat. Otherwise he's not really addressing the never-ending rising of prices of goods and services and the devaluation of money.

Satoshi designed Bitcoin to be a currency and a currency is also an asset at the same time. So I guess this isn't something that we should be confused about. Satoshi definitely wanted Bitcoin to be an asset.

fuguebtc

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Quote from: Fundamentals Of on April 15, 2024, 06:37:26 AM

I think Satoshi didn't include halving in the design of Bitcoin for its price to rise. I guess the design was simply imitating the way gold mining works. As mining goes on, the gold deposits on the earth dwindle, and so the new additional supply also decreases. This is how Bitcoin mining works as well. As mining goes on, the reward decreases over time.

I don't see this as a weakness though. And I also don't agree that public trust on Bitcoin is based on high price. Although there is that portion in the community, they don't represent the public. Bitcoin has features. These features are the main reasons why people are behind Bitcoin.

But if he relies on the principle of gold to create a halving event for bitcoin, then he clearly wants bitcoin to increase in value over time because the scarcity factor also helps gold increase in price over time.

Although in the bitcoin whitepaper , he only mentioned it as a peer-to-peer currency, other than that , we cannot be sure that he does not want bitcoin to become an asset like gold. We cannot know what his thoughts were, but given what was going on, I cannot rule out the possibility that Satoshi also intended to turn bitcoin into an asset and not really a currency.

Fundamentals Of

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I think Satoshi didn't include halving in the design of Bitcoin for its price to rise. I guess the design was simply imitating the way gold mining works. As mining goes on, the gold deposits on the earth dwindle, and so the new additional supply also decreases. This is how Bitcoin mining works as well. As mining goes on, the reward decreases over time.

I don't see this as a weakness though. And I also don't agree that public trust on Bitcoin is based on high price. Although there is that portion in the community, they don't represent the public. Bitcoin has features. These features are the main reasons why people are behind Bitcoin.

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Quote from: Nrcewker on April 14, 2024, 07:54:45 AM

Satoshi isn’t forcing the price to go up, but yes due to basic economics, the price is automatically going up. You need to understand that, Satoshi made a fixed number of Bitcoins and it went into the blockchain or market. Now people started buying the coins. When more people are buying it, and the coins are fixed in number, then due to the basic supply and demand economics, the price also goes up, in order to meet the demand. Directly blaming Satoshi for this is not ideal.

Satoshi has already seen this coming for bitcoin, that’s why he was confident enough that bitcoin will certainly become our future. So it’s given already that bitcoin price will consistently go up, as long as there is higher demand which eventually make its supply low or limited.

Now instead of trying to make Satoshi held responsible of this price increase, let’s just try to be grateful that he discovered bitcoin which offered us a lot of opportunities to grow our finances and help us become financially independent throughout the process.

Nrcewker

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Satoshi isn’t forcing the price to go up, but yes due to basic economics, the price is automatically going up. You need to understand that, Satoshi made a fixed number of Bitcoins and it went into the blockchain or market. Now people started buying the coins. When more people are buying it, and the coins are fixed in number, then due to the basic supply and demand economics, the price also goes up, in order to meet the demand. Directly blaming Satoshi for this is not ideal.

Mrbluntzy

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Quote from: Odohu on April 12, 2024, 05:14:30 AM

It is wrong to use the word force for it and I somehow disagree with you on this. The right way to put it is that Bitcoin was designed in a way that the supply will continue to decrease even in the face of increasing demand thereby creating a kind of imbalance that will spur an increase in price. This is not the same as forcing people to buy Bitcoin but a simple economics.

I agree that OP have used a wrong term on this topic because from when Satoshi created Bitcoin till today, there's nothing that have lead to forcing people into Bitcoin or accepting any Bitcoin rules. Although I have not read the Bitcoin White Paper but from my own thoughts, I don't even think that Satoshi knew that Bitcoin halving was going to be a very great force that will make Bitcoin price to surge during every having season but even if he already knew about it, he still put it there for its importance which is what is still in the favour of every Bitcoiner, he did not force it on us, he did it in our favour.

Solosanz

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Halving reward and mine new Bitcoin aren't the only two sources that miners earn, imagine if in 2140 all Bitcoins has been mined, will miners can't earn anymore? nope, they earn by include the transaction to the block, so they earn the fees that the users made.

Satoshi didn't force the price to increase, but there are many people who believe in Bitcoin. If no one is interested to buy Bitcoin, it will become worthless.

adaseb

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The halving hurts some miners but not all. You need to understand that with each generation the bitcoin ASICS are more advanced and require less power for the same hash rate. Miners find ways around the halving and plan ahead maybe by a year before it happens.

Some miners might get caught off guard when all of a sudden their profits are suddenly halved and their expenses are still a fixed cost. This happens every halving where someone buys an ASIC at an amazing price and see how it’s profitable at the moment only to later find out that it’s profitability will greatly decrease.

odolvlobo

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Quote from: simons_js on April 12, 2024, 05:00:57 AM

Halving is a way for satoshis to force the price of bitcoin to continue to rise over time. The fewer rewards given to miners will make bitcoins harder to obtain and rarer as time goes by.

You are perpetuating a very popular misconception. Despite the halvings, the supply continues to increase, making bitcoins easier to obtain and not as rare. According to your logic, will bitcoins become unobtainable when the subsidy reaches 0?

Here is the simple economic explanation: The rising price is due to increasing demand outpacing increasing supply.

Quote from: Blitzboy on April 12, 2024, 06:26:12 AM

The halving process, its a genius move. Pure economics - you cut supply, demand stays the same, the price goes up.

Same misconception. The supply is not cut. It is always increasing.

Quote from: mk4 on April 12, 2024, 06:55:23 AM

the price increase is only a byproduct due to the decreased new supply.

Same misconception but with a linguistic twist. The term for "new supply" is production. The Laws of Supply and Demand don't apply to production and there are no Laws of Production and Demand.

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Quote from: simons_js on April 12, 2024, 05:00:57 AM

this can damage public trust and also harm miners

Nope, it's not damaging public trust and harm miners. In fact, it's giving more people in the community to be trustworthy with this process because halving is actually a good strategy economically for Bitcoin to thrive more and gain more of its value.

As for the miners, they know what they're doing and have known this for so many years and if they're not in favor of this and been harmed by it, most of them have already stopped mining and the difficulty of mining should have dropdead long ago but it didn't.

Quote from: simons_js on April 12, 2024, 05:00:57 AM

So, I believe the price of bitcoin will continue to skyrocket in the future.

No doubt, thanks to halving and mass adoption that creates more demand.

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Quote from: simons_js on April 12, 2024, 05:00:57 AM

Halving is a way for satoshis to force the price of bitcoin to continue to rise over time. The fewer rewards given to miners will make bitcoins harder to obtain and rarer as time goes by. This is a smart strategy that Satoshi had and I just realized it.

Let's say he intentionally design that the coins be 21 million and it will be halved every 4 years.

Quote from: simons_js on April 12, 2024, 05:00:57 AM

The weakness of this strategy is that when Bitcoin fails to reach a high price after the halving until the next halving occurs, this can damage public trust and also harm miners. However, this weakness no longer applies because Bitcoin always has a new ATH at every halving phase that occurs. So, I believe the price of bitcoin will continue to skyrocket in the future.

What do you think?

No, I don't think that there is weakness in terms of the miners and it harm them. Miners are going to make money as certain point, they could be break even in the bear market, but once we are in a bull run, their business will continue to operate. Although there could be some miners that might close their business in the incoming bull run because their machine will have to adjust to the difficulty because of the halving.

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Quote from: Alone055 on April 12, 2024, 07:14:02 AM

There is absolutely no guarantee for that to happen. We think that Bitcoin will have a new all-time high after each cycle but this is just based on what we have seen in the history of Bitcoin, things can be different in the future, maybe Bitcoin will reach a price point and then drop after it and doesn't manage to go above that point next time.

I will not deny this point completely because there are some sense of truth and fact in it. Satoshi never designed bitcoin to have new all time high value after every halving. It is just what the system sees that’s it’s obeying. If the demand for it was short and more supply is coming into the market, I don’t think it would have survived till date but will be short lived. The price cycle is something that even Satoshi don’t have control over.

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Quote from: mk4 on April 12, 2024, 06:55:23 AM

It's to slow down the supply distribution/inflation; the price increase is only a byproduct due to the decreased new supply.

And I don't know if you actually think that (though I think it's likely just language barrier), but saying "forces" is not the right word to use in this case lol.

I couldn’t agree more. Halving is a crucial event for bitcoin that majority benefit from it. And I also think the term “forces” is not well suited to be used in the thread. It’s like you are trying to create a negative vibe towards Satoshi when in reality, everything that Satoshi did creates a major benefit for everyone that develops interest in bitcoin. Bitcoin is designed to rise its value over time, no doubts about it.

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If actually halving was a strategy that Satoshi embedded into Bitcoin for the price to continue to skyrocket, then it's not a bad strategy at all. Also, since it was never a "force," you could say that it must have been a strategy that he knew would make the price attain a great value over time. Just like @mk4 has already said, with which I agree, the idea of halving was actually to slow down the supply of Bitcoin, and if you take note of the high value of Bitcoin, supply and demand actually play an important role.

If Bitcoin had an unlimited supply, there's no way the value would have gotten to where it is today, but with Bitcoin being a proof of work with new Bitcoin being mine and the halving system in the picture, which reduces miners reward, that's why the value keeps going; Satoshi did not force the system in.

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Quote from: decodx on April 12, 2024, 01:31:17 PM

The way I see it, Satoshi didn't possess some special power to control prices like magic. Basic economics says if something gets more scarce but people still want it, value should go up and that's how halvings reduce new bitcoin entering the market - lower supply, potentially higher demand. But don't go thinking every halving guarantees a price jump either. Markets are complicated things with lots going on at once to push prices all over the place. The past dont determine the future.

This is why Satoshi is very correct in terms of limiting the supply, and expect the price to pump as long as there is a big demand. I agree that not all halving can have the same result, we might not see a big pump in the coming halving so better not to be complacent and stay focus with your position. Though the halving this year is still the same as we already reached a new peak, maybe in the next four years we will see again.

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LE ☮︎ Halving es la purga

This isn't exactly the help and knowledge board, but they tell you features and you ignore them.

Speculation board: anyway, we already had an ATH, a few days before the "Satoshi Forces," 'sorry' I say Halving, therefore, how the strategy you mention remains, if nothing happens in 8 years (e.g) with the price, for You means goodbye trust, goodbye bitcoin.

Well, in SN reality, what motivates us above any result is trust, and that cannot be forced.

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