Topic: <<SatoshiCircle>> 30 BTC Giveaway! Party w/ Penguins & Balloons, Aliens & UFOs!! - page 126. (Read 140305 times)

1HCDxqvztNYDQKPMVXAJQCfTAfcwYCfusM

thank you much.

Account funded, good luck

1M82f6oVATXAdGHFY8EAHY5SMcXTKnGiJ1

Looks fun can't wait to try!

thank you

Hey thanks for showing us this. For the convenience of readers of this thread I'll post the message here:
I must admit this all goes over my head as I'm not a developer, but here's the response from my tech team:

"If SatoshiCircle performed this theoretical cheat and claimed that one PRNG was the "right" one, then it would have to work with every past and present outcome as well. If different algorithms were used for different bets, the outcomes would not match up on all bets. So it is still "provable" that they are not cheating"

The point is that the information is visible to all to see, and if we were cheating we would risk it being discovered. We encourage anyone to test our system and try to discover anythings, past or present, one to substantial a claim of cheating.

Also, we will gladly respond to, and work with anyone who has questions, suggestions, or concerns.

______________________

Original message from user Yurock:

Satoshi Circle game is NOT provably fair.

They use the following model:
1. The outcome of the game is fully determined by initial data in a way, known to the player.
2. Part of the initial data is provided by the player ("Client Seed").
3. For every possible variant of server's data, there exists a variant of player's data that makes player win.
4. The server proves that it didn't change its data after the player revealed his part of the initial data.
5. After the game, the player can compute the outcome himself and verify that it matches the actual outcome of the game.

I will show that the outcome is determined in an unknown way, which invalidates the provision (1).

Here is an excerpt from the algorithm published by Satoshi Circle:

Code:
function seedShuffle( $items, $seed ) {
  
    if (is_numeric($seed)) {
        $seedval = $seed;
    } else {
      $seedval = crc32($seed);
    }

   srand($seedval);

   for ($i = count($items) - 1; $i > 0; $i--) {
      $j = @rand(0, $i);
      $tmp = $items[$i];
      $items[$i] = $items[$j];
      $items[$j] = $tmp;
   }

   return $items;
}
This function is central in determining the outcome. It uses PHP functions rand and srand. The underlying PRNG algorithm has roughly as much influence on the outcome as the initial data.

This is the implementation of rand in PHP 5.5.0 (ext/standard/rand.c):
Code:

PHP_FUNCTION(rand)
{
        long min;
        long max;
        long number;
        int  argc = ZEND_NUM_ARGS();
        
        if (argc != 0 && zend_parse_parameters(argc TSRMLS_CC, "ll", &min, &max) == FAILURE)
                return;
        
        number = php_rand(TSRMLS_C);
        if (argc == 2) {
                RAND_RANGE(number, min, max, PHP_RAND_MAX);
        }

        RETURN_LONG(number);
}
Code:
PHPAPI long php_rand(TSRMLS_D)
{
        long ret;

        if (!BG(rand_is_seeded)) {
                php_srand(GENERATE_SEED() TSRMLS_CC);
        }

#ifdef ZTS
        ret = php_rand_r(&BG(rand_seed));
#else
# if defined(HAVE_RANDOM)
        ret = random();
# elif defined(HAVE_LRAND48)
        ret = lrand48();
# else
        ret = rand();
# endif
#endif

        return ret;
}

As you can see, it uses one of 4 possible PRNG functions. Which one is actually used, depends on the PHP build. One of the back-end functions, rand (as defined by C standard), has implementation-dependent algorithm.

So, we have many possible PRNGs, and in fact, many different algorithms for computing the outcome.

How it theoretically can be used by Satoshi Circle to cheat. Suppose, a player makes one large bet, and it is his first bet. After the player discloses his "client seed", the server tries several PRNGs and uses one that gives the worst outcome for the player. Then Satoshi Circle claims that it is "the" PRNG they use.

Also, even if PRNG algorithm was known to the player, it is still difficult to verify the outcome.

1. When I try to select the hash of the server data to copy-paste it, the "client seed" entry form pops up and the text that I try to select goes to background.
2. The scheme used to compute the outcome is excessively complex. There exists a scheme that would provide at least the same level of security for the Satoshi Circle and the player, do better randomization of the outcome, and is easy to compute by an average player.
3. To verify the outcome using the current scheme, the player needs exactly the same PRNG. It may be a considerable hassle to get one for some OSes.

That all discourages players from verifying the fairness themselves. Most will hope that someone else will find it out if Satoshi Circle is cheating.

Everyone playing this game should read this post. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2674444

Account Funded, Good Luck

Personal Deposit Address
17AaKkLCzg3f76grDuqp9TWTXrSR7NPpZT

thank you

Account Funded, Good Luck

You're welcome. Hope you enjoy the game.

1CZAkvvYp6Ut6225ThZucamoP84dNgKUWL

Thanks

Thanks a lot, that's nice of you.

Sorry for the delay, account is now funded. Enjoy

I don't mean to sound annoying, but when will my account be funded?

You're Welcome. Glad you enjoyed it!

1L5mZFv8EoprvErvVCNBRcoJgVQJUsC9fP Thanks a lot guys.

    "After 100 spins reply back to this forum stating your gaming Alias and what you like about SatoshiCircle and on September 1st we'll pick the most creative response and shoot them back 1 BTC as a prize."

BiggusDickus - I know what you're thinking. "How much did he just win?" To tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself. But being as this is a SatoshiSpin, the most powerful roulette wheel in the world, and would blow your wallet clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?


Thank you again. 'twas really fun

Sorry we can only fund once per Bitcoin Forum account.

1FFU1PgC9ePQcgFLA9uHWXgEtZ7CLfSnJC

ty

Hi! Please note that we've been approved by MEM's gambling list as provably fair.

Thanks for you interest in our game.

Perfect, account funded. Enjoy the game and thanks for your comments