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Topic: Satoshis stash is not as large as some think (Read 1458 times)

hero member
Activity: 2016
Merit: 721
January 28, 2016, 11:01:03 PM
#29
it is fair enough to assume whomever does isn't going to dump them at a high point or they would have at 1000$.
Because everyone knew back then what everyone knows now: of course $1000 is and will forever be the all-time high and all the people who bought at that price or during the dump are dumbasses because hey, $1000 is the absolute top and it shall never be exceeded whatsoever  Roll Eyes.

Any evidence for this prediction or are you just talking outa your ass like alot of dickheads on this forum.....Huh
Sorry, it was sarcasm.


Or is it because saying that Satoshi should have sold at $1000 (admitting that it was his intention to sell at high price, which I'm not implying, only listing amidst all the existing possibilities) when there was no reason to think that the bubble would explode as well as no evidence that bitcoin wouldn't be higher on the graph 6 months later makes more sense to you than admitting that we don't have a clue?

kingcolex seems pretty good at reading the past. Is he at guessing the future now? (Careful: this is another sarcasm).
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1001
Think about it, why would "Satoshi" reference Hal Finney and Wei Dai but not the main key player out of the three people Hal Nick and Wei?

Why would he not reference arguably the most important out of those three people?
...

Once again, can you please post the quote that you are referencing?

Read the references on the bitcoin white paper.

I just did, I don't see Hal Finney mentioned in the references.
There are many other people referenced other than Dai, why couldn't any of them be Satoshi?

What in the Bitcoin White Paper did Satoshi Nakamoto take from Nick Szabo, that he didn't cite him for?
Which is your reasoning to think that Nick Szabo wrote the White paper.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1036
Here's a link to the thread that franky1 is talking about:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/chain-archaeology-answers-from-the-early-blockchain-507458

Take a look at the entire thread and the discussions about which bitcoins Satoshi is likely to own and why.  Then make your own decision as to which assumptions are probably right, and which aren't.  Add up the coins from the decisions you agree with and you can have your own personal estimate of how many bitcoins Satoshi is likely yo have control over.

That is actually a rehash of Sergio Damien Lerner's analysis and a recreation of his graphics from April 2013.

Black = unspent

There was no released version of Bitcoin that "used up" or "wasted" nonces required to create the steep slope. My analysis is that Satoshi did mine them with a special version of Bitcoin as a "heartbeat" miner to keep blocks rolling for testing, but perhaps discarded them, as no generated coins that fit the profile were ever spent.

You can revisit the thread through the link:

Interesting, I was thinking of code to analyze this, who knew miners would pop out like this when graphed! I also am pulling my own stats out with bitcointools, but at a block a second, it takes a while. My stats add nonce, time, a spent status, and # of transactions to the table of extranonces, but I don't thing I will bother with writing my own analysis code.

http://bitslog.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/all10-5.jpg (image is wacky so just a link)

I see an interesting aspect, that the extranonce of the non-spending satoshi miner (if it is correct that red=spent and black=unspent) is increasing about four times as fast as others - it's steeper block finding slope indicates that it is significantly lower at block finding than it should be. Remember, computers are not competing against each other during this whole run, they are competing against the difficulty.

I believe this is because this miner is using different code than the released Bitcoin. It may have a getwork-style mining, where multiple CPUs are mining through it, and part of this increases the nonce faster than the block finding rate of the released Bitcoin. The nonce may increase faster if Satoshi was discarding fast block finds to make the block rate more regular (which they are statistically - pull out and analyse one series of increasing extranonces). Something that we see at about 1/10th, and again at 5/8ths of the chart, that the slope changes (along with a daily block rate change), I think that there was some change made in its code or the number of miners configured, maybe Satoshi added something that made the miner inefficient for few weeks and fixed it, or tweaked code to discard any blocks faster than a "heartbeat".

There is one scenario where I think this makes sense: Satoshi created a special "network-supporting" miner. This special always-on miner with it's own code base may have never created permanent keys or had a wallet - in that NOTHING appears spent from it's mining.

Without an always-on miner for people to try out the currency and keep confirmations rolling (and another node for them to connect to), the money would just plain not work. This miner runs different code than the release others are running, evidenced by the identical slopes of everyone else. This may be the "x" IRC username connecting over Tor - it would listen for IP addresses to connect to but normal bitcoins couldn't get it's IP address from IRC.


Another thing interesting is that you can see other black lines in the graph, other people mined for a while with release code and have never spent their generates. We know some people have early 50BTCs, but we can also surmise a few of these lines may be lost coins.

What you see are different THREADS of the same PC. Possibly two or four threads were running concurrently.
Each thread has it own ExtraNonce, but all threads are started almost at the same time.
There is no evidence to support this. In fact this disagrees with your discovery that most mining was done by one rolling extranonce. It may have been Bitcoin #1 + xMiner, as referenced in my previous posting thread. Remember, Bitcoin 0.1.0 doesn't mine unless it has a node connected to it - it counts the nodes, and if the number is 0 or has changed to 0, mining is disabled.

The Satoshi super miner might not have started until Satoshi's normal Bitcoin or another regular Bitcoin user was also connected. Satoshi may have a wallet with his own coins, but never will use the backbone miner's coins. New miner at #64 may be Hal getting Bitcoin working.
sr. member
Activity: 686
Merit: 270
FREEDOM RESERVE
Think about it, why would "Satoshi" reference Hal Finney and Wei Dai but not the main key player out of the three people Hal Nick and Wei?

Why would he not reference arguably the most important out of those three people?
...

Once again, can you please post the quote that you are referencing?

Read the references on the bitcoin white paper.
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1001
Think about it, why would "Satoshi" reference Hal Finney and Wei Dai but not the main key player out of the three people Hal Nick and Wei?

Why would he not reference arguably the most important out of those three people?
...

Once again, can you please post the quote that you are referencing?
sr. member
Activity: 686
Merit: 270
FREEDOM RESERVE
Why are you denying the obvious facts in front of your faces?

Satoshi Nakamoto is Nick Szabo.

Think about it, why would "Satoshi" reference Hal Finney and Wei Dai but not the main key player out of the three people Hal Nick and Wei?

Why would he not reference arguably the most important out of those three people?

It doesn't take Hercule Poirot to see that Satoshi is Nick Szabo.
legendary
Activity: 1848
Merit: 1009
Next-Gen Trade Racing Metaverse
I don't really think it really matters how much he has.
I doubt he will dump them all at a time as that would crash bitcoin

Well quite frankly I think if he's still out there he doesn't have access to those wallets anymore.
sr. member
Activity: 686
Merit: 270
FREEDOM RESERVE
Well, seeing that my post that satoshi nakamoto is nick szabo just got deleted by the forum mods then I can only assume there is a conspiracy of silence around the fact that satoshi nakamoto is nick szabo.


It's veen confirmed satoshi is nick azabo and forum mods are trying to cover up the truth.


Satoshi nakamoto is nick szabo its obvious now.
legendary
Activity: 4410
Merit: 4766
I don't really think it really matters how much he has.
I doubt he will dump them all at a time as that would crash bitcoin

not crash bitcoin.. the protocol wont be affected miners will still mine.. it would just be a temporary price drama, and effectively a great oppertunity for people to buy cheap coin..

but with that said im more concerned with the mtgox stash and the mintpal stash and the cryptsy stash, and not so much the early miner stashes
hero member
Activity: 1106
Merit: 521
it is fair enough to assume whomever does isn't going to dump them at a high point or they would have at 1000$.
Because everyone knew back then what everyone knows now: of course $1000 is and will forever be the all-time high and all the people who bought at that price or during the dump are dumbasses because hey, $1000 is the absolute top and it shall never be exceeded whatsoever  Roll Eyes.

Any evidence for this prediction or are you just talking outa your ass like alot of dickheads on this forum.....Huh
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
I don't really think it really matters how much he has.
I doubt he will dump them all at a time as that would crash bitcoin
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1001
...
Think about it, why would "Satoshi" reference Hal Finney and Wei Dai but not the main key player out of the three people Hal Nick and Wei?
Why would he not reference arguably the most important out of those three people?
...

What are you referencing that from?
Can you provide the Satoshi quote you are referencing?
member
Activity: 66
Merit: 10
quote author=kingcolex link=topic=1343260.msg13697744#msg13697744 date=1453928716]
I don't see the point to really care, we can assume all we want but I don't think it matters. Even if Satoshi doesn't have 1,000,000 coins it is fair enough to assume whomever does isn't going to dump them at a high point or they would have at 1000$.
[/quote]

I'm quite sure they (cause satoshi is not a single person) dumped it a while ago. There would be no reason for they to know it would explode in price like it did. If you had 500k of something worth nothing that suddenly was worth 100 bucks, would you still hold it? It's very hard to have that level of cold blood.
legendary
Activity: 4410
Merit: 4766
Why don't you just email Nick Szabo and ask him how many bitcoins he has.
its not nick..
but i do love some of the theories and 'proofs'

the funniest one is using the letters of his name
someone said nicks middle name was thomas

NICK THOMAS SZABO

take the C and the B change them to numeric (c=3 b=2)
3x2=6
6= 1 and 1 and 1 and 1 and 1 and 1
1=A and 1,1,1,1,1     (A and five 1's)
keep the A, we will use that later


1,1,1,1,1= 3 and 2
3x2=6
6=3 and 3
3x3=9

take the Z and change it to numeric (z=26)
26+9=35

dont take these out, just note that the missing letters are O=15 T=20   =35

so numerically we can see there is a conversion method for ZBC=AOT
now take out the CBZ and add in the AOT

NICK THOMAS SZABO
NIK THOMAS SAOAOT

now mix them letters up from:
NIK THOMAS SAOAOT

to:

S   (NIK THOMAS AOAOT)
SA   (NIK THOMAS OAOT)
SAT   (NIK HOMAS OAOT)
SATO   (NIK HMAS OAOT)
SATOS   (NIK HMA OAOT)
SATOSH   (NIK MA OAOT)
SATOSHI   (NK MA OAOT)
SATOSHI N  (K MA OAOT)
SATOSHI NA  (K M OAOT)
SATOSHI NAK  ( M OAOT)
SATOSHI NAKA  ( M OOT)
SATOSHI NAKAM  (  OOT)
SATOSHI NAKAMO  (  OT)
SATOSHI NAKAMOT  (  O)
SATOSHI NAKAMOTO

i know nick is not, but i just liked this bit of speculation and wordplay.. put a smile on my face
sr. member
Activity: 686
Merit: 270
FREEDOM RESERVE
Why don't you just email Nick Szabo and ask him how many bitcoins he has.
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1014
In Satoshi I Trust
he will never move these coins so i dont care. but nice analysis, thx  Smiley
legendary
Activity: 4410
Merit: 4766
mark keples is in jail, he can not retrieve those, if those are not retrievable in any case, there is no proof that those coins are still at his disposal


but those coins are somewhere.. and so. they posess more of a threat. as they are more recent and more unknown.. it just takes one phonecall, even for jail to kerpeles's partner in crime (also unknown) to push the coins out.

imagine he appeals and requests a large fine.. thats more incentive to push put coins. and more realistic than the worry of satoshi coming back with keys which are more likely lost in wallet deletions each time he changed the sourcecode.
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
The thing is the total ammount hold by him may be lower then people expected,but he had bought his bitcoin to others soo some people sold their portfolio.
sr. member
Activity: 574
Merit: 250
Here's a link to the thread that franky1 is talking about:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/chain-archaeology-answers-from-the-early-blockchain-507458

Take a look at the entire thread and the discussions about which bitcoins Satoshi is likely to own and why.  Then make your own decision as to which assumptions are probably right, and which aren't.  Add up the coins from the decisions you agree with and you can have your own personal estimate of how many bitcoins Satoshi is likely yo have control over.

So the coins people are sure he has mined are still untouched to this day? Woah.
legendary
Activity: 3248
Merit: 1070
even if he have only 100k, and by the look of those data he can not have less than that, since at 500k coins they were only in 9, and he was the first, so it's easy to assume that he own at least 100k

still that is a dangerous amount, if he decide to dump... but anyway i don't think he will ever dump his coins, if he truly believe in bitcoin, and he should because you know he is the one behind the idea of bitcoin...then he should wait until bitcoin is adopted and use it directly

dangerous?

mark kerpeles secret hoard of upto 600k-900k coins is more dangerous. and more chance of popping up one day.

but ultimately it wont kill bitcoin, it would just be a temporary bit of drama where the price tanks (temporarily).. blocks will still be mined people will still make transactions. yes there will be some losers. but on the flip side lots of winners, people will get the chance to buy some cheap coin. so its ultimately just price drama that doesnt hurt bitcoin as it ultimately doesnt hurt the 21m bitcoin cap..(think long term picture not the short term drama)

mark keples is in jail, he can not retrieve those, if those are not retrievable in any case, there is no proof that those coins are still at his disposal
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