For those of you who are on the fence, you can now get some MasterCoins for free on my giveaway thread: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/paused-giveaway-for-mastercoins-the-new-protocol-layer-built-on-bitcoin-272577
If you get them that way, the only risk is to your reputation.
Topic: SCAM ALERT: "Mastercoin" Official Launch (Exodus address) (read first) (Read 5304 times)
August 12, 2013, 08:29:26 PM
August 07, 2013, 12:38:02 AM
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/06/us-court-sec-bitcoin-idUSBRE97517G20130806
The SEC will go after you for selling an unlicensed and unregistered investment instrument within the US regardless of the currency used. Here's a relevant quote:
The SEC will go after you for selling an unlicensed and unregistered investment instrument within the US regardless of the currency used. Here's a relevant quote:
Quote
Trendon Shavers of Bitcoin Savings & Trust had challenged the Securities and Exchange Commission's case against him, saying the regulator had no jurisdiction to sue him because the Bitcoin investments he offered are not securities or subject to any U.S. regulation.
But U.S. Magistrate Judge Amos L. Mazzant in the Eastern District of Texas ruled on Tuesday that his Bitcoin investments "meet the definition of investment contract, and as such, are securities."
But U.S. Magistrate Judge Amos L. Mazzant in the Eastern District of Texas ruled on Tuesday that his Bitcoin investments "meet the definition of investment contract, and as such, are securities."
August 06, 2013, 01:49:41 PM
What he's doing is almost certainly illegal.
He is selling an investment instrument without complying with any of the regulations. See this article: http://www.pcworld.com/article/2045083/sec-charges-texas-man-with-running-bitcoin-ponzi-scheme.html
Even if you disagree with that assessment he's proposing at minimum to sell a virtual currency directly to consumers without doing any know your customer regulation compliance. See: http://www.paritynews.com/2013/05/26/libertyreservecom-shuttered-founder-arrested-in-spain/
He claims to be based within the US yet follows none of the applicable laws. Even if he doesn't run with the money and actually releases some source code he's going to get a nasty visit from the law eventually.
If he's really released his true identity, I think he's screwed. He still hasn't proved he is who he says he is. Maybe he could take a picture holding a sign saying "Mastercoin is totally not a scam guys"?
Definitely stay away from this one and don't give him any money. Since even if he succeeded at his project he'd be violating the law I think it's far more likely he'll run with the money instead.
He is selling an investment instrument without complying with any of the regulations. See this article: http://www.pcworld.com/article/2045083/sec-charges-texas-man-with-running-bitcoin-ponzi-scheme.html
Even if you disagree with that assessment he's proposing at minimum to sell a virtual currency directly to consumers without doing any know your customer regulation compliance. See: http://www.paritynews.com/2013/05/26/libertyreservecom-shuttered-founder-arrested-in-spain/
He claims to be based within the US yet follows none of the applicable laws. Even if he doesn't run with the money and actually releases some source code he's going to get a nasty visit from the law eventually.
If he's really released his true identity, I think he's screwed. He still hasn't proved he is who he says he is. Maybe he could take a picture holding a sign saying "Mastercoin is totally not a scam guys"?
Definitely stay away from this one and don't give him any money. Since even if he succeeded at his project he'd be violating the law I think it's far more likely he'll run with the money instead.
I believe all applicable laws deal with transfers into and out of U.S. Dollars, which I am not doing.
Also, my LinkedIn profile links to the MasterCoin spec, and I spoke about it on video at the bitcoin conference, so I really doubt anybody is seriously questioning my identity.
You posted a video of someone at a conference. You also posted a LinkedIn profile. That doesn't prove that your forum identity is in any way linked to that real identity.
As far as the applicability of the laws, the first link I posted the guy collected only Bitcoin just as in your proposal.
The creator of Liberty Reserve got taken down by the US govt and you will too. Decentralization and open source are the only thing keeping Bitcoin from being shutdown. Since your project has neither it will be shut down if it ever ends up existing in the first place.
(PS: Again, you can't profit from maintaining an artificial peg so the economics of your system make it a failure before it's even begun. Taking people's Bitcoins and promising them Mastercoin is certainly just as illegal as what the guy from Texas did in the first link. So whether you deliver or not you're still violating multiple US laws.)
August 06, 2013, 08:10:36 AM
What he's doing is almost certainly illegal.
He is selling an investment instrument without complying with any of the regulations. See this article: http://www.pcworld.com/article/2045083/sec-charges-texas-man-with-running-bitcoin-ponzi-scheme.html
Even if you disagree with that assessment he's proposing at minimum to sell a virtual currency directly to consumers without doing any know your customer regulation compliance. See: http://www.paritynews.com/2013/05/26/libertyreservecom-shuttered-founder-arrested-in-spain/
He claims to be based within the US yet follows none of the applicable laws. Even if he doesn't run with the money and actually releases some source code he's going to get a nasty visit from the law eventually.
If he's really released his true identity, I think he's screwed. He still hasn't proved he is who he says he is. Maybe he could take a picture holding a sign saying "Mastercoin is totally not a scam guys"?
Definitely stay away from this one and don't give him any money. Since even if he succeeded at his project he'd be violating the law I think it's far more likely he'll run with the money instead.
He is selling an investment instrument without complying with any of the regulations. See this article: http://www.pcworld.com/article/2045083/sec-charges-texas-man-with-running-bitcoin-ponzi-scheme.html
Even if you disagree with that assessment he's proposing at minimum to sell a virtual currency directly to consumers without doing any know your customer regulation compliance. See: http://www.paritynews.com/2013/05/26/libertyreservecom-shuttered-founder-arrested-in-spain/
He claims to be based within the US yet follows none of the applicable laws. Even if he doesn't run with the money and actually releases some source code he's going to get a nasty visit from the law eventually.
If he's really released his true identity, I think he's screwed. He still hasn't proved he is who he says he is. Maybe he could take a picture holding a sign saying "Mastercoin is totally not a scam guys"?
Definitely stay away from this one and don't give him any money. Since even if he succeeded at his project he'd be violating the law I think it's far more likely he'll run with the money instead.
I believe all applicable laws deal with transfers into and out of U.S. Dollars, which I am not doing.
Also, my LinkedIn profile links to the MasterCoin spec, and I spoke about it on video at the bitcoin conference, so I really doubt anybody is seriously questioning my identity.
August 06, 2013, 02:41:25 AM
What he's doing is almost certainly illegal.
He is selling an investment instrument without complying with any of the regulations. See this article: http://www.pcworld.com/article/2045083/sec-charges-texas-man-with-running-bitcoin-ponzi-scheme.html
Even if you disagree with that assessment he's proposing at minimum to sell a virtual currency directly to consumers without doing any know your customer regulation compliance. See: http://www.paritynews.com/2013/05/26/libertyreservecom-shuttered-founder-arrested-in-spain/
He claims to be based within the US yet follows none of the applicable laws. Even if he doesn't run with the money and actually releases some source code he's going to get a nasty visit from the law eventually.
If he's really released his true identity, I think he's screwed. He still hasn't proved he is who he says he is. Maybe he could take a picture holding a sign saying "Mastercoin is totally not a scam guys"?
Definitely stay away from this one and don't give him any money. Since even if he succeeded at his project he'd be violating the law I think it's far more likely he'll run with the money instead.
He is selling an investment instrument without complying with any of the regulations. See this article: http://www.pcworld.com/article/2045083/sec-charges-texas-man-with-running-bitcoin-ponzi-scheme.html
Even if you disagree with that assessment he's proposing at minimum to sell a virtual currency directly to consumers without doing any know your customer regulation compliance. See: http://www.paritynews.com/2013/05/26/libertyreservecom-shuttered-founder-arrested-in-spain/
He claims to be based within the US yet follows none of the applicable laws. Even if he doesn't run with the money and actually releases some source code he's going to get a nasty visit from the law eventually.
If he's really released his true identity, I think he's screwed. He still hasn't proved he is who he says he is. Maybe he could take a picture holding a sign saying "Mastercoin is totally not a scam guys"?
Definitely stay away from this one and don't give him any money. Since even if he succeeded at his project he'd be violating the law I think it's far more likely he'll run with the money instead.
August 02, 2013, 01:35:53 PM
dacoinminister can code, he's got some example scripts here:
http://userscripts.org/users/303682
We know next to nothing about him, though. I believe that he checks out as possibly being who he says he is, but I see nothing wrong with spiral alerting people to the high likelihood that coins could be taken and he could run with them. Everything else is just superfluous. People who are sending him coin at this point likely know the risks they are engaging in.
http://userscripts.org/users/303682
We know next to nothing about him, though. I believe that he checks out as possibly being who he says he is, but I see nothing wrong with spiral alerting people to the high likelihood that coins could be taken and he could run with them. Everything else is just superfluous. People who are sending him coin at this point likely know the risks they are engaging in.
August 02, 2013, 12:26:12 PM
why who r u?
August 02, 2013, 12:10:35 PM
xxxxxxxxxxxxx
your an annoying semi-retarded cock mate
August 02, 2013, 11:54:58 AM
He's probably just deleting your posts because he thinks your an annoying semi-retarded cock mate
August 01, 2013, 03:46:38 PM
I don't think it's a bad investment because it is a scam, I think it is a bad investment because he has nothing to back it up. This concept would be great to be used as local currencies. They are better than alt coins, because they would have the Bitcoin Network to provide stability to transaction propagation.
August 01, 2013, 03:07:14 PM
Quote
+1, but who cares?
How about the people who you're asking to send you money blindly? They probably should care. This is a crap idea so you have to try and make it look like its the best thing since sliced bread to ignite people's greed.
You've been astroturfing to make it seem like it's a "risky investment" rather than just sending you cash for nothing.
As bvt said a lot of things add up to make your project total shit. (I've already listed them)
August 01, 2013, 02:57:55 PM
...calling your paper "the second bitcoin whitepaper"
That's quite the hubris.
+1, but who cares? That's quite the hubris. I agree, but it starts to add up on everything else.
August 01, 2013, 02:45:20 PM
I disapprove of spiral_mind and this thread.
+1...calling your paper "the second bitcoin whitepaper" That's quite the hubris.
+1, but who cares? That's quite the hubris. August 01, 2013, 02:38:06 PM
Are you guys really all my sock puppets?? Dang, I wish I had known - I could have used you a lot of times in the past!
While I personally don't care about the sock puppet account accusations, it's quite clear that you're removing any criticism from your own thread. You've "launched" (put up an address for people to send you bitcoins) a severely flawed and rigged project.
Hopefully more people will see this and not send you any more bitcoins. EVEN if you're trying to make this at the best of your abilities the whole thing is useless because you control the "exodus" address and you used it to buy with your own bitcoins at zero risk. At the very least you should put up the same risk as anyone else when you're asking us to "trust" you based on a short written paper. And how about some transparency?
And calling your paper "the second bitcoin whitepaper"
That's quite the hubris. August 01, 2013, 02:21:29 PM
Spiral_mind, shut up please. Just because something uses the kickstarter model instead of the bitcoin or opencoin model does not make it a scam. There have been hundreds of projects in the development forum here that have asked for money before having source code available for inspection. JR's identity is public, so it is highly unlikely he is scamming.
I think his project has major flaws and a bunch of his ideas will never work. Why don't you contribute to the discussion instead of screaming scam about something that is clearly not a scam?
I think his project has major flaws and a bunch of his ideas will never work. Why don't you contribute to the discussion instead of screaming scam about something that is clearly not a scam?
You generate "coins" by giving him money directly. That's his project idea. Anyone who doesn't think this is a scam isn't thinking it through. As you said, it will never work yet he's asking for money RIGHT NOW QUICK SEND IT.
if you think his idea is not worth exploring click here
There's no way in hell I'm clicking your random fucking links. I give it 99% chance odds that's some malware he's trying to infect people with.
Here's a list of his (very likely) sockpuppets:
AdamstgBit
Ripper234
Notme
hmmstrange
cbeast
With both AdamstgBit and Ripper234 he's been asking pre-scripted questions and answering them himself from another account to give the appearance of legitimacy. One thing they never ask about is why the money has to go directly into his account. They focus on the economics instead because he knows that most people will get lost in something that complicated.
View their post history yourself if you don't believe me. The vast majority of their posts are one line and add nothing to the conversation. It's also possible these accounts were legit at one point and then were purchased. Dacoinminister has over 120k in Bitcoins in his account so buying a few would be a trivial task.
August 01, 2013, 02:14:30 PM
Here's an exchange that was just deleted in his other thread.
Quoted for truth
Quote
He keeps dodging all the substantial questions such as "why are you the only one who can make mastercoins if you plan to release the source code eventually? Why does the money go directly into your account (other than "I deserve it !!").
Now someone's sent 1,222 Bitcoins into his stupid "exodus address". My guess is that these are his own funds that he's transferred to make it seem as there are actual investors into his scam.
he answered that question
hes using the funds to work on the project.
at 1million $ worth of bitcoin he quits his day job and makes this project his lifes work
LOL. So once everyone sends you a million dollars then you'll actually devote your time to the project(you say). What a fucking total joke. I think it more likely that you just take off with whatever people are stupid enough to send you.
Now someone's sent 1,222 Bitcoins into his stupid "exodus address". My guess is that these are his own funds that he's transferred to make it seem as there are actual investors into his scam.
Quote
he answered that question
hes using the funds to work on the project.
at 1million $ worth of bitcoin he quits his day job and makes this project his lifes work
LOL. So once everyone sends you a million dollars then you'll actually devote your time to the project(you say). What a fucking total joke. I think it more likely that you just take off with whatever people are stupid enough to send you.
Quote
It's silly that he even allows himself to buy "mastercoins". Talk about rigging the system from the get-go, if it even is a real project. This whole thing seems rushed and questionable, at best.
He's able to buy these coins at -ZERO- risk while everyone else risks losing their entire investment for the same potential reward.
It's quite clear he's purely financially motivated and not interested in a fair and properly decentralized model.
I suggest ignoring this one and wait for something better and less shady.
He's able to buy these coins at -ZERO- risk while everyone else risks losing their entire investment for the same potential reward.
It's quite clear he's purely financially motivated and not interested in a fair and properly decentralized model.
I suggest ignoring this one and wait for something better and less shady.
Quoted for truth
August 01, 2013, 02:06:24 PM
Here's some of the posts he's deleted reposted for your viewing pleasure:
Quote
(this one's from his sockpuppet Adam)
you really don't get it?
he can take off with the coins
it won't matter
he will have left us with his idea and we can implement it ourselves. we'll get our MasterCoins one way or another.
the coins are going to his address because he deserves them
you made your point quite clear over and over, thank you.
now, good day!
He can take off with the coins and it won't matter? What about releasing the source code? What about all the people whose money he would have stolen?
The idea alone is worth everyone sending him Bitcoins in advance in exchange for nothing? Actually it does matter if you steal people's coins.
He (or should I say you?) deserves them simply for writing a paper that says he should get the coins?
You still haven't answered my question. That's why I keep posting it. Tell us what will keep you honest and I'll stop.
you really don't get it?
he can take off with the coins
it won't matter
he will have left us with his idea and we can implement it ourselves. we'll get our MasterCoins one way or another.
the coins are going to his address because he deserves them
you made your point quite clear over and over, thank you.
now, good day!
Quote
He can take off with the coins and it won't matter? What about releasing the source code? What about all the people whose money he would have stolen?
The idea alone is worth everyone sending him Bitcoins in advance in exchange for nothing? Actually it does matter if you steal people's coins.
He (or should I say you?) deserves them simply for writing a paper that says he should get the coins?
You still haven't answered my question. That's why I keep posting it. Tell us what will keep you honest and I'll stop.
Quote
Increasing supply to decrease price is the easy part. Decreasing supply to increase price is the impossible part.
Indeed even if you ignore the glaring issue with sending cash in exchange for nothing but a promise with no source code his economics are way off base. However that's totally irrelevant until the creator addresses the nigerian prince scheme he's trying to sockpuppet down people's throats.
Indeed even if you ignore the glaring issue with sending cash in exchange for nothing but a promise with no source code his economics are way off base. However that's totally irrelevant until the creator addresses the nigerian prince scheme he's trying to sockpuppet down people's throats.
Quote
Willet chose a valid way to bootstrap his idea.
It is not identical to the way Satoshi bootstrapped his idea, but as we all know Satoshi made quite a profit nonetheless.
Ripple/OpenCoin also choose a different way to bootstrap their idea, and as far as I know it's working well (they got investments from Google and Peter Thiel for one).
I believe Colored Coins was left in relative stagnation in the last year precisely because it lacked a good bootstrapping model that would pay for the cost of development (although it is seeing some increased usage today).
I summarized my thoughts on the matter on a blog post I just wrote about MasterCoin.
Having everyone send their money to the creator's personal address is not bootstrapping.
Both Ripple and Bitcoin gave out their coins for free to bootstrap their projects. Since so many people had them they began using them as money and they became valuable. This "project" is totally different in that it asks for money to be sent directly to the creator. This will not give it value in and of itself. This does nothing to "bootstrap". You're actually doing the exact opposite of what Bitcoin and Ripple did to bootstrap themselves.
How convenient that you posted a link to a blog post about how Mastercoin is "the new high yield investment". This whole thing stinks of a scam so hard.
It is not identical to the way Satoshi bootstrapped his idea, but as we all know Satoshi made quite a profit nonetheless.
Ripple/OpenCoin also choose a different way to bootstrap their idea, and as far as I know it's working well (they got investments from Google and Peter Thiel for one).
I believe Colored Coins was left in relative stagnation in the last year precisely because it lacked a good bootstrapping model that would pay for the cost of development (although it is seeing some increased usage today).
I summarized my thoughts on the matter on a blog post I just wrote about MasterCoin.
Quote
Having everyone send their money to the creator's personal address is not bootstrapping.
Both Ripple and Bitcoin gave out their coins for free to bootstrap their projects. Since so many people had them they began using them as money and they became valuable. This "project" is totally different in that it asks for money to be sent directly to the creator. This will not give it value in and of itself. This does nothing to "bootstrap". You're actually doing the exact opposite of what Bitcoin and Ripple did to bootstrap themselves.
How convenient that you posted a link to a blog post about how Mastercoin is "the new high yield investment". This whole thing stinks of a scam so hard.
Quote
Your proposal has so many flaws that you've refused to answer time and time again, deleting posts instead. That's a sure sign of a scammer, self moderate the thread to create an appearance of positivity. First of all we have to send Bitcoins directly into your pocket in order to get "master coins". That's the biggest one. You still haven't addressed that concern.
The other is that you don't understand how economics works. You can't maintain a fixed asset price against the market's wishes without losing money. You're proposing to act as a central bank to a fundamentally flawed system just because you know you'll be able to get a few suckers to give you real money.
There's absolutely nothing that will ever make Mastercoins valuable within your proposal. Just because people spent money on an asset doesn't guarantee that what they buy with it will be worth anything. You're making no goals, no guarantees, and still haven't even proved you are who you say you are.
Nobody should be treating this as legitimate.
The other is that you don't understand how economics works. You can't maintain a fixed asset price against the market's wishes without losing money. You're proposing to act as a central bank to a fundamentally flawed system just because you know you'll be able to get a few suckers to give you real money.
There's absolutely nothing that will ever make Mastercoins valuable within your proposal. Just because people spent money on an asset doesn't guarantee that what they buy with it will be worth anything. You're making no goals, no guarantees, and still haven't even proved you are who you say you are.
Nobody should be treating this as legitimate.
August 01, 2013, 01:26:12 PM
Spiral_mind, shut up please. Just because something uses the kickstarter model instead of the bitcoin or opencoin model does not make it a scam. There have been hundreds of projects in the development forum here that have asked for money before having source code available for inspection. JR's identity is public, so it is highly unlikely he is scamming.
I think his project has major flaws and a bunch of his ideas will never work. Why don't you contribute to the discussion instead of screaming scam about something that is clearly not a scam?
I think his project has major flaws and a bunch of his ideas will never work. Why don't you contribute to the discussion instead of screaming scam about something that is clearly not a scam?
You generate "coins" by giving him money directly. That's his project idea. Anyone who doesn't think this is a scam isn't thinking it through. As you said, it will never work yet he's asking for money RIGHT NOW QUICK SEND IT.
August 01, 2013, 10:57:12 AM
Spiral_mind, shut up please. Just because something uses the kickstarter model instead of the bitcoin or opencoin model does not make it a scam. There have been hundreds of projects in the development forum here that have asked for money before having source code available for inspection. JR's identity is public, so it is highly unlikely he is scamming.
I think his project has major flaws and a bunch of his ideas will never work. Why don't you contribute to the discussion instead of screaming scam about something that is clearly not a scam?
I think his project has major flaws and a bunch of his ideas will never work. Why don't you contribute to the discussion instead of screaming scam about something that is clearly not a scam?
August 01, 2013, 05:25:41 AM
I'm not sure if this really is a scam -- seems too obvious to be one... but...
The best way to do this is for him to STFU until he has at least a semi-working client. Everyone has ideas. Having and executing ideas is what makes the difference. That doesn't preclude collaboration on the protocol, which is very important... but that's very different from an "OFFICIAL LAUNCH" thread.
For funding -- fair enough to ask for funding if this will be a group effort, but this isn't the way to do it. There are plenty of crowdfunding sites where dacoinmeister could be more open and accountable. If he wants to be sent money directly, then he could create contracts which we could sign and release using multisig transactions.
Still a hell of a risk though. The only difference between this being valuable and worthless is a single flaw in the code. And there isn't any code yet.
The best way to do this is for him to STFU until he has at least a semi-working client. Everyone has ideas. Having and executing ideas is what makes the difference. That doesn't preclude collaboration on the protocol, which is very important... but that's very different from an "OFFICIAL LAUNCH" thread.
For funding -- fair enough to ask for funding if this will be a group effort, but this isn't the way to do it. There are plenty of crowdfunding sites where dacoinmeister could be more open and accountable. If he wants to be sent money directly, then he could create contracts which we could sign and release using multisig transactions.
Still a hell of a risk though. The only difference between this being valuable and worthless is a single flaw in the code. And there isn't any code yet.
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