Apology is more than accepted.
Much appreciated.
Unless the community is apposed, I'd like to keep this thread open. I think it can serve as a warning to those who use alternative messaging services.
Topic: scam scare (Read 493 times)
Much appreciated.
Unless the community is apposed, I'd like to keep this thread open. I think it can serve as a warning to those who use alternative messaging services.
@condoras,
I would like to issue an official public apology. I'm sorry I accused you of being part of this scam attempt.
I would like to issue an official public apology. I'm sorry I accused you of being part of this scam attempt.
Apology is more than accepted. It's a good thing to aknowledge your mistakes and try not to make the same again (that goes to all of us). So everything is good here, no grudge or hard feelings from my side.
Just this morning someone contacted me on Telegram asking me to provide escrow for his collateral so he could a loan from member jbdee. I quickly provided the two an address to use and posted it here on the forum in my escrow thread. The scammer then created an account to impersonate me, started another group discussion with jbdee and the impostor account, and gave jbdee a different address. But since I had already provided an address, jbdee was spared from the scam, and recognized the other account as an impostor.
I now believe that you were lured into a very similar attempt to scam me.
This type of scam is a new one for me. Start a discussion with a reputable member, then impersonate that member in another group discussion. This morning makes at least two instances where I know it failed,I wonder if it has ever worked for this scumbag.
I now believe that you were lured into a very similar attempt to scam me.
This type of scam is a new one for me. Start a discussion with a reputable member, then impersonate that member in another group discussion. This morning makes at least two instances where I know it failed,I wonder if it has ever worked for this scumbag.
Is not the first time (as i said in some of my previous posts in this thread) and as it looks, it wont be the last.
As it seems they try to create an account that looks as much as they can to the original one and establish a "connection-chat group" with the victim. They also try to find and copycat trusted members around so they can persuade the victim easier and send them the funds as fast as they can.
I believe that we can secure it in a way by making some tricks like putting a banner or a small sign in our profile, so to know if the account is the official one.
Ofc if someone have the original account in his TG list, he can verify it in no time.
Considering the amount of time invested in attempting these types of scams, you would think the guy could that much effort into something legitimate, and be profitable and successful.
What time they invest here man? No real time at all. They try to trick others with our "names" alone. Without any need to "create" any documents or paperwork or edit a thing. Just change a digit or a letter and...here we go, let's scam!
To quote a wise man/woman/non-binary person from a page ago:
Stop right there.
I'm often asked "are you this-or-that-person on telegram", which probably means that scammers are impersonating anyone they can, and that telegram is a mess (and I mean Skype-level total shitshow) when it comes to usernames/nicknames.
...
The Other Member.. sent me a PM asking me to connect with him on Telegram
...
The Other Member.. sent me a PM asking me to connect with him on Telegram
...
Stop right there.
I'm often asked "are you this-or-that-person on telegram", which probably means that scammers are impersonating anyone they can, and that telegram is a mess (and I mean Skype-level total shitshow) when it comes to usernames/nicknames.
You are right about the TG mess and the shitshow (lol) but don't blame the tool because it's a tool. If they use it for wrong purposes and goals doesn't make it bad. As long as we use it as we should be and be careful, then is a fine good tool.
P.S: @DW Know you know who is the real me...
To quote a wise man/woman/non-binary person from a page ago:
Stop right there.
I'm often asked "are you this-or-that-person on telegram", which probably means that scammers are impersonating anyone they can, and that telegram is a mess (and I mean Skype-level total shitshow) when it comes to usernames/nicknames.
...
The Other Member.. sent me a PM asking me to connect with him on Telegram
...
The Other Member.. sent me a PM asking me to connect with him on Telegram
...
Stop right there.
I'm often asked "are you this-or-that-person on telegram", which probably means that scammers are impersonating anyone they can, and that telegram is a mess (and I mean Skype-level total shitshow) when it comes to usernames/nicknames.
@condoras,
I would like to issue an official public apology. I'm sorry I accused you of being part of this scam attempt.
Just this morning someone contacted me on Telegram asking me to provide escrow for his collateral so he could a loan from member jbdee. I quickly provided the two an address to use and posted it here on the forum in my escrow thread. The scammer then created an account to impersonate me, started another group discussion with jbdee and the impostor account, and gave jbdee a different address. But since I had already provided an address, jbdee was spared from the scam, and recognized the other account as an impostor.
I now believe that you were lured into a very similar attempt to scam me.
This type of scam is a new one for me. Start a discussion with a reputable member, then impersonate that member in another group discussion. This morning makes at least two instances where I know it failed, I wonder if it has ever worked for this scumbag. Considering the amount of time invested in attempting these types of scams, you would think the guy could that much effort into something legitimate, and be profitable and successful.
I would like to issue an official public apology. I'm sorry I accused you of being part of this scam attempt.
Just this morning someone contacted me on Telegram asking me to provide escrow for his collateral so he could a loan from member jbdee. I quickly provided the two an address to use and posted it here on the forum in my escrow thread. The scammer then created an account to impersonate me, started another group discussion with jbdee and the impostor account, and gave jbdee a different address. But since I had already provided an address, jbdee was spared from the scam, and recognized the other account as an impostor.
I now believe that you were lured into a very similar attempt to scam me.
This type of scam is a new one for me. Start a discussion with a reputable member, then impersonate that member in another group discussion. This morning makes at least two instances where I know it failed, I wonder if it has ever worked for this scumbag. Considering the amount of time invested in attempting these types of scams, you would think the guy could that much effort into something legitimate, and be profitable and successful.
That is indeed possible. Now that I see the account I thought was Condoras' in the second group discussion has been deleted, and the one in the first is still there (and that's the one I contacted,) it seems quite plausible. The "Client" certainly could have started the second conversation posing as Condoras.
I've removed my negative tag. I now recognize it's impossible to prove that Condoras was part of the second group discussion titled "Escrow," and that's where all the really shady shit happened.
I've removed my negative tag. I now recognize it's impossible to prove that Condoras was part of the second group discussion titled "Escrow," and that's where all the really shady shit happened.
It would be nice to hear a big "sorry" for all this mess, as i would like to thank you for notifying me and get here to explain.
We can prevent all this fuss if you contact me directly, the moment you get a msg from another "Condoras" and tell you to be on another chat room.
Anyway, i don't hold any grudges or bad feelings but please be more carefull when you accuse someone.
P.S: You can say that you sorry with a big meme or pic here...
(jk) @DireWolfM14: is it possible someone was impersonating condoras? There's never been a verified signed message proving it's the real person.
Also: the Zip files contain many files, but Google Drive doesn't let me open messages.html. Can you upload it as text only somewhere?
Also: the Zip files contain many files, but Google Drive doesn't let me open messages.html. Can you upload it as text only somewhere?
That is indeed possible. Now that I see the account I thought was Condoras' in the second group discussion has been deleted, and the one in the first is still there (and that's the one I contacted,) it seems quite plausible. The "Client" certainly could have started the second conversation posing as Condoras.
I will add that the account only just got deleted minutes before I posted this reply. It leads me to suspect whoever is behind "Warum Loan Client" is here reading this topic.
I've removed my negative tag. I now recognize it's impossible to prove that Condoras was part of the second group discussion titled "Escrow," and that's where all the really shady shit happened.
Here are the discussions. The time stamp is based on UTC -8 (Pacific Standard Time.)
First Conversation with the account I contacted:
Code:
Antony️ 🏴☠️
14 November 2019
12:22
Dire Wolf
Hey Condoras, how are you?
12:23
I can cover that loan, but at 120% collateral, that amounts to 0.313 BTC for 55 LTC.
12:24
Antony️ 🏴☠️
Hey man, happy to see you
12:24
120% ofc by all means
12:24
i'm talking with this guy and waiting to reply
12:24
Dire Wolf
If you want to cover part of it, and I can cover the other part we can do it that way
12:24
Antony️ 🏴☠️
as soon as i have news from him, i will let you know
12:25
Dire Wolf
cool, thanks for allowing me to help
12:25
Antony️ 🏴☠️
In reply to this message
Idk if i can cover even a small part since i get scammed today from a "casino" my ass
12:25
Dire Wolf
oh shit, sorry to hear that
12:25
Antony️ 🏴☠️
Sorry for my language
12:26
Dire Wolf
what fucking language?
12:26
Antony️ 🏴☠️
In reply to this message
Yeap,i'm just almost fucked up
12:26
In reply to this message
Ahahaha
12:26
thx man, you make laugh a bit
12:27
So i thought it will be good someone from the ppl that i trust and do lending to get this, if it s legit and not some troll
12:27
How much interest you want me to say to him?
12:28
Dire Wolf
I appreciate it, thanks. My interest for collateral loan is 0.1% per day, 3% per month
12:30
Antony️ 🏴☠️
Ok
12:30
I send him a msg,wait for his reply. I hope to be true...
12:33
You will be here for a long time or you need to leave? I mean go to sleep or something else...
12:34
Idk your zone sorry
12:34
Dire Wolf
I'm at work, it's 12:33 in the afternoon for me
12:34
I do have a couple of meetings this afternoon, but I'll be around
12:34
Antony️ 🏴☠️
ok great
13:01
Antony️ 🏴☠️
Still no reply...😕
13:02
When i have a reply for him, i let you know man
13:51
Antony️ 🏴☠️
Here?
13:53
You want me to put you in our conversation with the client as the escrow of the deal ?
13:55
He is ok to use an escrow btw
13:59
Or you want me to present you as a partner of mine?
14:04
Dire Wolf
hey, sorry I was in a meeting away from my desk.
14:04
Antony️ 🏴☠️
My bad man
14:05
Dire Wolf
No worries, I'm going to be on and off for the next two hours or so
14:05
Antony️ 🏴☠️
So i will put you in our chat with the guy ok?
14:05
Dire Wolf
sounds good
14:07
Antony️ 🏴☠️
Warum Loan client
+381 63 869 6965
14:07
This is the guy
14:07
Idk how i can add you in the chat...
14:07
need to make a new one?
14:07
Dire Wolf
I think so, I've never done that
14:11
he's asking me about the fee, what should I tell him?
14:11
Antony️ 🏴☠️
Whatever i guess 0.5 or 1% tops is the current mid fee for escrow
14:16
He cant know who will loan him
14:17
So i think its better to know that is me that i loan him
14:17
Dire Wolf
okay, no problem
14:21
Antony️ 🏴☠️
See you tomorrow man and thx for the help
14:21
Dire Wolf
see you tomorrow
16:05
Dire Wolf
Hey, I need an address to send the coins, can you please sign a message?
Second Conversation: Titled "Loan."
Code:
Loan Deal
14 November 2019
Antony️ 🏴☠️ created group «Loan Deal» with members Antony️ 🏴☠️, Dire Wolf and Warum Loan client
14:08
Dire Wolf
Hello
14:08
Warum Loan client
Hi there
14:08
Antony️ 🏴☠️
Ok,all good i guess :-
14:09
Warum Loan client
So its about loan eth ltc
14:09
Antony️ 🏴☠️
Oh not BTC - LTC?
14:09
You insist on ETH loan?
14:09
Warum Loan client
Nope check msges
14:09
I mean that about we talked?
14:09
Antony️ 🏴☠️
Ok, my bad indeed...
14:10
I see them now, you want ETH
14:10
Dire its ok with you?
14:10
Dire Wolf
I'm sorry I don't have the ETH to cover that loan, I thought it was BTC
14:11
Antony️ 🏴☠️
Yes and i have problem with ETH too... 😞
14:11
Warum Loan client
Ehh will you have eth tomorow or today?
14:11
Or 2 3 days?
14:12
I can maybe take btc but tomorow i prefer eth
14:12
Antony️ 🏴☠️
Can we talk tomorrow then and check our availability on ETH?
14:13
Dire Wolf
unfortunately I won't have that much ETH, and no plans to
14:13
Warum Loan client
Alright so btc possible eth currently no okay
14:13
Ill probably need it tomorow
14:13
Btc one
14:14
Antony️ 🏴☠️
Btc is more easier for me and Dire as well aas you see
14:14
Besides we are from Bitcointalk...
14:14
Warum Loan client
But just one thing who will be escrow you or dire?and who loan me?
14:14
Dire Wolf
sorry guys, trying to participate in a meeting while I'm chatting
14:15
I'm not ignoring you
14:15
Antony️ 🏴☠️
Ok Dire
14:15
Warum Loan client
So just to confirm 3% interest ltc btc loan
14:15
?
14:15
Dire Wolf
correct
14:15
Antony️ 🏴☠️
per month
14:15
Warum Loan client
And you are escrow or dire
14:15
Repayment 29.12.19
14:16
Antony️ 🏴☠️
I prefer Dire to have the collateral
14:16
Warum Loan client
Oki so tomorrow we can make btc ltc loan right?
14:16
Dire Wolf
I will provide signed messages, and the collateral stays in the address the whole time, on my hardware wallet
14:17
Antony️ 🏴☠️
Sounds good to my ears
14:17
Warum Loan client
All good
14:18
I contact you anthony later ir tomorow for loan
14:18
Until later cya guys
14:18
Antony️ 🏴☠️
Due the "problem" of different time zones you want us to be ready tomorrow at spesific time for the deal?
14:18
Warum Loan client
Like 14 pm cet
14:19
Is that ok?
14:19
Antony️ 🏴☠️
I be here. Dire it's ok with you?
14:19
Dire Wolf
perfect
14:19
Warum Loan client
Okay cya guys
14:19
Antony️ 🏴☠️
Happy to talk to you both, see you tomorrow then Mr Warum
14:20
Warum Loan client
Too
14:20
Antony️ 🏴☠️
You can contact me here Mr Warum so Dire to see it as well
14:20
Thank you in advance
14:20
Warum Loan client
Also
14:21
Dire Wolf
thanks guys, see you tomorrow
Third Conversation: (Second Group Discussion) Titled "Escrow."
Code:
Escrow
14 November 2019
Warum Loan client created group «Escrow» with members Warum Loan client, Dire Wolf and Antony️ 🏴☠️
14:25
Antony️ 🏴☠️
Actually Dire , he want btc loan tonight.can you fill it? Same deal, 55ltc collateral
14:25
Warum Loan client
So repayment datw stay same 29.12.19 with 3% interest
14:26
Antony️ 🏴☠️
How much btc i get exact?
14:26
He*
14:27
Dire Wolf
I will be away from my computer for about an hour, is that okay?
14:27
Antony️ 🏴☠️
Np we will wait for you.but can you fill this loan tonight?
14:27
Warum Loan client
I will be here sure
14:27
Dire Wolf
Yeah, I can
14:28
Warum Loan client
Guys let me know ammount of btc i get exact
14:28
Okay so in 1h we maje this?
14:28
Antony️ 🏴☠️
Good, ill be also online @DireWolfM14 ping us when you are back
14:29
Dire Wolf
55 LTC will allow 0.313 BTC loan
14:29
Antony️ 🏴☠️
55 Ltc -20% in Btc equal ammount
14:29
Thats right 0.313
14:29
Warum Loan client
Oki seems fine i wait you guys
14:29
So not now in 1h?
14:30
Thatw 00 30 cet ?
14:31
Antony️ 🏴☠️
Not correct in minute but @DireWolfM14 comes ~
14:37
Dire Wolf
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256
LTC collateral address for Warum's loan:
MVb8iPpHQrjEKdj1gDo9MvxPTP3Yr2ycYL
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEj+SnoCiYCpIUPy6Tb8DUkPoYYbgFAl3N1yEACgkQb8DUkPoY
YbinVAf+Ll6LR+P45khHZrCV/j96FITNf7/1CPS0ftSCFsVs0vtfj8XA0JNAM+JV
CcT/1iGrHrJdjRGZt+pPjQs+UrT2k0+SX661T0J1syZQkfZvcqzu+WDqjjR2s532
zhWG9IENyK+ChN9LBK7zziflQS5WTbCCR5M84wtcJfdWUiK/WY4ZWWtzziriLmWO
NDNaz/6N8fqWELFQ94MA61lsl42zp6mmDKBalyV0nYCXvi5PyILinJ3OQmAn6dNM
KCI/p2ik3DVnQatT1VXZbStzN/skluGQKTWJ3FP2T0mia/MDdKztM0l23L4xjvxD
kT3Da97ROFWEeJmmdjTW65SoVkN89A==
=zX+Z
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
14:38
PGP Fingerprint: 8FE4A7A028980A92143F2E936FC0D490FA1861B8
14:38
You can verify at keybase
14:40
Warum Loan client
Oki can we proceed now?
14:40
Dire Wolf
I'm still in a meeting, but should be done in about 20 minutes
14:41
Warum Loan client
Ok i wait here
14:41
Dire Wolf
looks like my other meeting got cancelled, but maybe not
14:42
Antony️ 🏴☠️
I m also active more 1h so i guees we will finish this tonight
14:43
As Mr Warum ask he demand you sending BTC to my wallet, he check txid, than he send collateral to you.this is totally fine for me , but say me Dire is this okay with you?
14:44
I understand him as its high value but we are old loaners and btctalk members, anyway Warum i think this should be not problem but wait for Dire to come back
14:45
Warum Loan client
So this is my first time taking loan i send collateral to this adress up?
14:45
Antony️ 🏴☠️
Yes the one Dire sent you
14:46
But wait he come back from meeting
14:46
Dire Wolf
hey guys, I have to step away for a bit, I'll be back in about 40 minutes. So sorry, usually it's not this crazy around here, lol
14:47
Antony️ 🏴☠️
Np you r welcome
14:47
Warum Loan client
Is this for sure 40min? Just asking
14:48
Antony️ 🏴☠️
I guees he said before 20mins , 1 hour he need so it will be arround 40min .Dire take your time if Mr Warum can wait
14:53
Warum Loan client
Ill wait say me when all rdy also whats repayment adress
15:07
Antony️ 🏴☠️
Dire will provide you repayment adress
15:22
Warum Loan client
Im online guys and waiting ready just to know
15:45
Dire Wolf
hey guys, work day is finaly over, I'm here for you
15:45
sorry about the delay
15:45
Antony️ 🏴☠️
No problem take your time so
15:46
So as you wish you Mr Warum, Dire will release btc to me.You will send 55lLtc to him ,once he confirm ,you will receive BTC . 3% monthly interest + 0.5% escrow fees. Dire will provide you repayment adress
15:46
Warum Loan client
Im here also
15:46
Rdy
15:47
Dire Wolf
I'll send you a signed message from the address with the coins
15:47
Warum Loan client
So when dire send to you btc i send ltc to adress he said right?
15:47
Ye but i prefer that i know btc is at him
15:47
Antony️ 🏴☠️
I think we can make it like he ask but he will cover double transaction fees
15:47
If you agree Dire we can start now
15:48
Warum Loan client
Ok np i cover that fees
15:48
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256
LTC collateral address for Warum's loan:
MVb8iPpHQrjEKdj1gDo9MvxPTP3Yr2ycYL
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEj+SnoCiYCpIUPy6Tb8DUkPoYYbgFAl3N1yEACgkQb8DUkPoY
YbinVAf+Ll6LR+P45khHZrCV/j96FITNf7/1CPS0ftSCFsVs0vtfj8XA0JNAM+JV
CcT/1iGrHrJdjRGZt+pPjQs+UrT2k0+SX661T0J1syZQkfZvcqzu+WDqjjR2s532
zhWG9IENyK+ChN9LBK7zziflQS5WTbCCR5M84wtcJfdWUiK/WY4ZWWtzziriLmWO
NDNaz/6N8fqWELFQ94MA61lsl42zp6mmDKBalyV0nYCXvi5PyILinJ3OQmAn6dNM
KCI/p2ik3DVnQatT1VXZbStzN/skluGQKTWJ3FP2T0mia/MDdKztM0l23L4xjvxD
kT3Da97ROFWEeJmmdjTW65SoVkN89A==
=zX+Z
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
15:49
Here i send ltc?
15:49
Antony️ 🏴☠️
Thats right, Dire do you agree to start?
15:49
Dire Wolf
sure, that's ok with me, Condoras, can you send me a signed message on the forum for the address?
15:50
Antony️ 🏴☠️
Sure why not . i know that this is not how usually works loan but he inssist
15:50
There is attached to my profile
15:50
Warum Loan client
Im waiting you guys i got ltc
15:50
Dire Wolf
ok, great
15:51
In reply to this message
yes, here: MVb8iPpHQrjEKdj1gDo9MvxPTP3Yr2ycYL
15:51
Warum Loan client
Ok
15:51
Antony️ 🏴☠️
qrqcf7ymhg55u0t9pcexj9k8qrrd3hu385uxj9hu5u , but Warum you will receive btc when Dire confirm ltc
15:52
Warum Loan client
Ok i know im ok with it
15:53
Antony️ 🏴☠️
Btw Warum you can check my and Dire feedback , there is no need for this complication as you lose transaction fees
15:53
Anyway you pay it so repayment 29.12.19 3% interest
15:54
@DireWolfM14 provide you repayment adrress
15:54
Warum Loan client
All clear
15:54
I just need txid so i see btc is real and im on sending ltc
15:54
Sry its high value for me
15:55
Dire Wolf
-----BEGIN BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----
This is DireWolfM14 confirming funds
14 NOV 2019
-----BEGIN SIGNATURE-----
33rhSk8iYGzkwDWSjYEWaRR4nf2bW9Zpqa
H96d7fXLHPrU1Ib0nqahnD12GQJjI8nd7LMjSdVCmxLGERLmDh2YXhV1hdljz25dwjFbl0ADGMoluJEoWAEh0bU=
-----END BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----
15:55
this is the address with the coin
15:55
you may have to use Electrum to verify
15:56
this will be repayment address: 348XXjbpXwg37JYd8knLnHRSMajLbteSbJ
15:56
Warum Loan client
I never done this before idk how i check
15:56
Ok repayment got it
15:56
Dire Wolf
do you have electrum?
15:56
Warum Loan client
Nope but i may make it
15:56
Why
15:57
Dire Wolf
it's a desktop wallet, it will allow you to check the signed message
15:57
Antony️ 🏴☠️
@DireWolfM14 i think its simpliest to make as he want as all long night he ask for this demand
15:58
Dire Wolf
no problem, I can send to condoras
15:58
Antony️ 🏴☠️
But only when ltc have all confirmation i will release btc to you Warum
15:58
Warum Loan client
Ye thats all i need ti see txid and all good
15:58
Warum Loan client
Dire Wolf 14.11.2019 15:58:11
no problem, I can send to condoras
15:59
Antony️ 🏴☠️
@DireWolfM14 here it is: 1s1yBtD16SurC1x8QAWnQswwnT5oS6fAd feel free to put transaction fees to high due time as he cover it
16:00
Warum Loan client
So 3% plus 0.5% or just 3%?
16:01
Dire Wolf
since I'll be holding the collateral, it's just 3%, but I have to take tx fees from the LTC when I send back
16:01
Warum Loan client
Fine
16:01
What if i pay befire 29.12? Different interest?
16:01
Antony️ 🏴☠️
3% per month
16:02
Dire Wolf
0.1% per day, so if you pay early I'll calculate it to the day
16:02
Warum Loan client
Oki that is fine
16:02
Dire Wolf
all my info is here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5132594.msg50633585#msg50633585
16:03
repayment address is also on that page
16:03
Warum Loan client
Im waiting for you guys ,so when i send ltc i wait until all confirm than i receive btc from condoras?
16:03
Antony️ 🏴☠️
Correct
16:05
Warum Loan client
Ok so im rdy all conditions are fine
16:05
Antony️ 🏴☠️
Alright wait for txid as you wish as Dire use physical wallet need little time
16:07
Warum Loan client
Ok so i send yoy now my btc adress where you send me after ltc right
16:08
Dire Wolf
you can send it now
16:08
Warum Loan client
Ok sec , so can we proceeed?
16:09
Im just waiting for you guys
16:09
Antony️ 🏴☠️
@DireWolfM14 how long you need ?
16:09
Dire Wolf
I'm sorry I got confused, I need an address
16:10
condoras, can you please send me a signed message with the address on the forum?
16:10
Warum Loan client
Hah i understand he want another way of loan
16:11
Yes sure but just one second isnt it easier like always to make loan? Usually Warum we proceed like send collateral get loan no txid and so
16:11
This is what cond wrote me
16:12
I am couruous as its high value for me
16:12
I just wanna really know its all legit
16:12
Antony️ 🏴☠️
Antony️ 🏴☠️ 14.11.2019 15:59:59
@DireWolfM14 here it is: 1s1yBtD16SurC1x8QAWnQswwnT5oS6fAd feel free to put transaction fees to high due time as he cover it
16:13
Antony️ 🏴☠️
There is signed on my profle check
16:13
Dire Wolf
no address in your profile:
16:13
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=740502
16:14
Warum Loan client
Or even make txid with 10% of loan so i can see your current walet stat
16:14
This is also ok for me
16:14
Dire Wolf
https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/address/33rhSk8iYGzkwDWSjYEWaRR4nf2bW9Zpqa
16:16
ok, how about this; I send you 0.0001 BTC to your wallet, then you send the LTC, then I send the rest, ok?
16:16
Warum Loan client
From same wallet?
16:16
Dire Wolf
yes, of course
16:16
Warum Loan client
Or like send 0.001 to cond and post txid im alsi ok with it
16:17
Dire Wolf
that works too
16:17
Warum Loan client
Fine for me just wanna see txid
16:17
And can y resend me ltc adress
16:19
Dire Wolf
8897eccf11c3e6ddb5735726053ce7df8c9a6821d009c4a127289e7850b91d23
16:19
Warum Loan client
Hmm but how can i be sure you have all btc i want to loan 0.001 is like 10usd. I just checked and my loan is near 3k usd
16:20
Sec i check txid
16:21
Can we just make like i asked before? Once i see cond really have all btc for my loan im instant sending ltc
16:21
Antony️ 🏴☠️
Ah @DireWolfM14 i said hes too complicated
16:22
But lets just finish this.once more you will cover all transaction fees
16:22
Dire Wolf
Condoras, I'm not seeing this address on the forum: 1s1yBtD16SurC1x8QAWnQswwnT5oS6fAd
16:23
Antony️ 🏴☠️
Btw warum check my and dire adress we have big volume trade
16:23
I can sing it np but this goes too complicated
16:24
Dire Wolf
I think I'm going to back out of this deal, I'm sorry but I'm not comfortable with what's going on.
16:24
Warum Loan client
What about he sent 0.01 btc i send equal ltc and small stepz
16:24
This is fine?
16:24
I know sry guys i lost 300usd yesterday
16:25
Antony️ 🏴☠️
If you go out im gonna refund but maybe wecan do this last?
16:25
Antony️ 🏴☠️
Warum Loan client 14.11.2019 16:24:22
What about he sent 0.01 btc i send equal ltc and small stepz
16:25
Antony️ 🏴☠️
@DireWolfM14 i think this is reasonable
16:26
Warum Loan client
I lost 300usd yesterday seeking loan thatz why i do this
16:26
Antony️ 🏴☠️
If you agree last one dire we can go otherwise we cancel i refund your btc
16:28
Dire Wolf
Yeah, I think I would rather cancel. I'm sorry I'm just not comfortable with this anymore
16:28
Antony️ 🏴☠️
We understand but this is not how usuallt works
16:28
Antony️ 🏴☠️
Warum Loan client 14.11.2019 16:26:19
I lost 300usd yesterday seeking loan thatz why i do this
16:28
Antony️ 🏴☠️
Sorry Warum trade is canceled
16:28
Warum Loan client
Hmmm......
16:28
I wait wholw day but ok
16:29
Is there any way we can go?
16:29
I rly need
16:29
Dire Wolf
make an account on the forum, and post here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5132594.msg50633585#msg50633585
16:30
Antony️ 🏴☠️
@DireWolfM14 can you cover 0.005 btc to me? I repay in 2days i am gonna giv3 him loan with all i have
16:30
Dire Wolf
but you have to be willing to send the collateral directly to me first. I'm sorry but that's the only way I will proceed.
16:30
Warum Loan client
Let me read about this on forum
16:31
Antony️ 🏴☠️
?
16:31
Antony️ 🏴☠️
Antony️ 🏴☠️ 14.11.2019 16:30:09
@DireWolfM14 can you cover 0.005 btc to me? I repay in 2days i am gonna giv3 him loan with all i have
16:32
Antony️ 🏴☠️
Willing to share 60% of my interest with you
16:34
Let me know
16:34
And if not sendme your refund adress
16:37
Dire Wolf
you can send back here, I'll cover the tx fees, slow is fine: 348XXjbpXwg37JYd8knLnHRSMajLbteSbJ
@DireWolfM14: is it possible someone was impersonating condoras? There's never been a verified signed message proving it's the real person.
Also: the Zip files contain many files, but Google Drive doesn't let me open messages.html. Can you upload it as text only somewhere?
@condoras: I disagree with (negative) retaliation feedback. Please reconsider, this is not helping your case, and can only lead to you being excluded from DT.
Also: your explanation is a bit chaotic, which doesn't help your case either.
And: check https://bitcointalk.org/myips.php, see if someone else has accessed your account.
Also: the Zip files contain many files, but Google Drive doesn't let me open messages.html. Can you upload it as text only somewhere?
@condoras: I disagree with (negative) retaliation feedback. Please reconsider, this is not helping your case, and can only lead to you being excluded from DT.
Also: your explanation is a bit chaotic, which doesn't help your case either.
And: check https://bitcointalk.org/myips.php, see if someone else has accessed your account.
I also disagree with accusing me based on false or misunderstood things and call them evidence. There is no retaliation here, i will remove it when he removes it.
Besides if he see it, maybe he can see and his mistake. Also there is no case since he post the pics, it's perfectly clear, at least to my eyes.
They try firstly with DW, it could be easy being me their first choise to try and scam. As i said it's been done in the past.
You can understand though that i cannot let DW to mark me based on false things...
Can you tell me what from my story is chaotic? What thing is uncleared?
EDIT: Noone access my account besides me. All these years is only me and me alone. You can also check my TG, a lot people here can.
EDIT2: Negative feedback removed.
@DireWolfM14: is it possible someone was impersonating condoras? There's never been a verified signed message proving it's the real person.
Also: the Zip files contain many files, but Google Drive doesn't let me open messages.html. Can you upload it as text only somewhere?
@condoras: I disagree with (negative) retaliation feedback. Please reconsider, this is not helping your case, and can only lead to you being excluded from DT.
Also: your explanation is a bit chaotic, which doesn't help your case either.
And: check https://bitcointalk.org/myips.php, see if someone else has accessed your account.
Also: the Zip files contain many files, but Google Drive doesn't let me open messages.html. Can you upload it as text only somewhere?
@condoras: I disagree with (negative) retaliation feedback. Please reconsider, this is not helping your case, and can only lead to you being excluded from DT.
Also: your explanation is a bit chaotic, which doesn't help your case either.
And: check https://bitcointalk.org/myips.php, see if someone else has accessed your account.
First of all idk a thing about any kind of teck in this, so i dont know what "doctored" means...
Secondly my time zone and IP etc can easily verified so we can see what time i suppose to send him any msg, since i was not in a PC or in any internet point.
Finaly i repeat that i never send any msg to DW regarding sending me any kind of funds and so i NEVER msg him ANY address of mine.
I insisting to check the name of the guy who send to DW the msg with "my" addy and the words that i want him to send me any funds. Any change in that username/ profile will clear the case.
I think i'm clear enough.
Secondly my time zone and IP etc can easily verified so we can see what time i suppose to send him any msg, since i was not in a PC or in any internet point.
Finaly i repeat that i never send any msg to DW regarding sending me any kind of funds and so i NEVER msg him ANY address of mine.
I insisting to check the name of the guy who send to DW the msg with "my" addy and the words that i want him to send me any funds. Any change in that username/ profile will clear the case.
I think i'm clear enough.
We can't really verify any IPs or timezones here and that wouldn't prove anything anyway.
The best I can figure out from your explanation is that you're claiming that the person in the group chat is not you. How did that person know everything about the deal?
And who is the "client"?
I'm just saying that you can check the log files of my real account there and see if i was on the time that DW gets the msgs and create a NEW chat with these guys.
As i said earlier, because it happen again in the past some scammers to try and "copy cat" lenders around here in TG, i'm most that certain that those guys try to scam DW.
Btw if an account is deleted from a chat, is deleted from everywhere and my account is still on his list, plus the chat that i create....
Idk who is he, only the username "Warum".
First of all idk a thing about any kind of teck in this, so i dont know what "doctored" means...
Secondly my time zone and IP etc can easily verified so we can see what time i suppose to send him any msg, since i was not in a PC or in any internet point.
Finaly i repeat that i never send any msg to DW regarding sending me any kind of funds and so i NEVER msg him ANY address of mine.
I insisting to check the name of the guy who send to DW the msg with "my" addy and the words that i want him to send me any funds. Any change in that username/ profile will clear the case.
I think i'm clear enough.
Secondly my time zone and IP etc can easily verified so we can see what time i suppose to send him any msg, since i was not in a PC or in any internet point.
Finaly i repeat that i never send any msg to DW regarding sending me any kind of funds and so i NEVER msg him ANY address of mine.
I insisting to check the name of the guy who send to DW the msg with "my" addy and the words that i want him to send me any funds. Any change in that username/ profile will clear the case.
I think i'm clear enough.
We can't really verify any IPs or timezones here and that wouldn't prove anything anyway.
The best I can figure out from your explanation is that you're claiming that the person in the group chat is not you. How did that person know everything about the deal?
And who is the "client"?
Ok, as you wish. I strongly advice you to know better before accusing someone and at least, learn how to verify people on TG.
I did but i don't see pics or the msgs itself. Can you make a pic of the msg that i say to you to send me the funds first?
Interesting, all of the sudden both accounts seem to have been deleted.
Still though, my real account remains and you can send him a msg now...
It's more than clear that someone use my username which can be done, in order to scam you and accuse me.
EDIT: So can you please remove the false neg?! Omg man, you can't see your own image?
My account is STILL active... Yes i message him after he message me. That includes Warum (client). If you mean if this msg send by me, no i didnt send any msg like this one.
So you're basically saying that DireWolfM14 doctored the chat logs? I just want you to be absolutely clear about it.
First of all idk a thing about any kind of teck in this, so i dont know what "doctored" means...
Secondly my time zone and IP etc can easily verified so we can see what time i suppose to send him any msg, since i was not in a PC or in any internet point.
Finaly i repeat that i never send any msg to DW regarding sending me any kind of funds and so i NEVER msg him ANY address of mine.
I insisting to check the name of the guy who send to DW the msg with "my" addy and the words that i want him to send me any funds. Any change in that username/ profile will clear the case.
I think i'm clear enough.
I did but i don't see pics or the msgs itself. Can you make a pic of the msg that i say to you to send me the funds first?
Interesting, all of the sudden both accounts seem to have been deleted.
Yes i message him after he message me. That includes Warum (client). If you mean if this msg send by me, no i didnt send any msg like this one.
So you're basically saying that DireWolfM14 doctored the chat logs? I just want you to be absolutely clear about it.
Is this your address: 1s1yBtD16SurC1x8QAWnQswwnT5oS6fAd
No its not.
EDIT: @DW: Is there any way to take a pic from the account that name itself like me and send you anything related to this? Because it happen again in the past and i believe that this is the case here as well.
What chat logs? Can you please show me the msg that i say that any funds to be sent to me?!
Quote
I m also active more 1h so i guees we will finish this tonight
As Mr Warum ask he demand you sending BTC to my wallet, he check txid, than he send collateral to you.this is totally fine for me , but say me Dire is this okay with you?
I understand him as its high value but we are old loaners and btctalk members, anyway Warum i think this should be not problem but wait for Dire to come back
As Mr Warum ask he demand you sending BTC to my wallet, he check txid, than he send collateral to you.this is totally fine for me , but say me Dire is this okay with you?
I understand him as its high value but we are old loaners and btctalk members, anyway Warum i think this should be not problem but wait for Dire to come back
Your message or not?
Yes i message him after he message me. That includes Warum (client). If you mean if this msg send by me, no i didnt send any msg like this one.
I did but i don't see pics or the msgs itself. Can you make a pic of the msg that i say to you to send me the funds first?
EDIT: Sorry for the edit's.
Sorry but i can't see any of them. Can you please post them as a link?
The "client" account in Telegram has been deleted, but the conversions are still there. The files I posted are the backups, you'll have to download the zip file, and extract the conversation from the directories included.
[Archive]
What chat logs? Can you please show me the msg that i say that any funds to be sent to me?!
Quote
I m also active more 1h so i guees we will finish this tonight
As Mr Warum ask he demand you sending BTC to my wallet, he check txid, than he send collateral to you.this is totally fine for me , but say me Dire is this okay with you?
I understand him as its high value but we are old loaners and btctalk members, anyway Warum i think this should be not problem but wait for Dire to come back
As Mr Warum ask he demand you sending BTC to my wallet, he check txid, than he send collateral to you.this is totally fine for me , but say me Dire is this okay with you?
I understand him as its high value but we are old loaners and btctalk members, anyway Warum i think this should be not problem but wait for Dire to come back
Your message or not?
Or this one:
Quote
But only when ltc have all confirmation i will release btc to you Warum
Is this your address: 1s1yBtD16SurC1x8QAWnQswwnT5oS6fAd
Sorry but i can't see any of them. Can you please post them as a link?
Well it seems like the TOM guy is me, because i contact DW for a loan that i couldnt fill about 55 LTC! 
Some things though here is very innaccurate like that i want to scam (!!!) DW. So let's take things step by step:
1: I get a message from a guy who has a username with another member here in TG. I saw it so i figure that probably was the same person, which now i really dought. He write to me that he wants a loan on BTC or ETH. So far so good from my side, the problem though was that i havent in my hot wallet the amount that this guy asked. https://imgur.com/bYrJT37.
2: Because of my recent loss due i fall to a scam site, i think to contact another "fellow" lender around that can probably fill it or cooperate with me on it. So i keep talking with the client and explain things, like how much collateral must have etc. The guy though vanish for a while. https://imgur.com/R349Oxm
3: At that time i contact DW since he is one of the members here and especialy in Lending section that i believe he is trusted enough. I didn't say to him though that i want ANY kind of amount from this deal (lending funds or collateral funds) in my wallets. So for bettet communication i make a group with the 3 of us,. Client (Warum the "name"), me and DW.
In this chat i specificaly said that the collateral funds will be held by DW and NOT ME. https://imgur.com/FkPnNUT
Why? But because if i cant fill it all then i preffer the other part/ cooperateror/ time partner not to EVEN think that i'm tring to do whatever. Think DW miss this msg...
4. The group chat ended with the agreement to chat again the next day at 14:00' CET. https://imgur.com/3dt8P8j
Due my health problems (for sometime now, some members here knows about it) i was unable to loggin at that time, so i missed the meeting and i get on it later. Then i see that Warum delete his account... I check group chat and no new msg and Warum was missing from the group.
Instead i have a msg from DW asking me where to send the funds (!) and i was very surpise by that since we didnt say that i will get ANY KIND OF FUNDS from either of them (DW and Warum) and i ask him about what funds he is talking about. https://imgur.com/dk9zniP
My question to DW and to all others who see it as a scam try is this: Why to do this since i didnt ask any amount of funds and the only % that i want to take was the escrow fee, IF any escrow fee occured. Nothing more and nothing less. Perhaps the thing that i dont want to loss possible clients, seems too much. But we all know that having clients with a valid collateral is more than rare these days and thats why any income will do, at least for me.
I also dont want to write more than i can or to see this as an act of drama but it will be good/ better to talk before you judge so easilly.
And no, my name is not Tom!
EDIT: P.S I'm not mention the fact that i never say to DW to send first, in any case. I'm being in Lending so much time to say something like this...
Some things though here is very innaccurate like that i want to scam (!!!) DW. So let's take things step by step:
1: I get a message from a guy who has a username with another member here in TG. I saw it so i figure that probably was the same person, which now i really dought. He write to me that he wants a loan on BTC or ETH. So far so good from my side, the problem though was that i havent in my hot wallet the amount that this guy asked. https://imgur.com/bYrJT37.
2: Because of my recent loss due i fall to a scam site, i think to contact another "fellow" lender around that can probably fill it or cooperate with me on it. So i keep talking with the client and explain things, like how much collateral must have etc. The guy though vanish for a while. https://imgur.com/R349Oxm
3: At that time i contact DW since he is one of the members here and especialy in Lending section that i believe he is trusted enough. I didn't say to him though that i want ANY kind of amount from this deal (lending funds or collateral funds) in my wallets. So for bettet communication i make a group with the 3 of us,. Client (Warum the "name"), me and DW.
In this chat i specificaly said that the collateral funds will be held by DW and NOT ME. https://imgur.com/FkPnNUT
Why? But because if i cant fill it all then i preffer the other part/ cooperateror/ time partner not to EVEN think that i'm tring to do whatever. Think DW miss this msg...
4. The group chat ended with the agreement to chat again the next day at 14:00' CET. https://imgur.com/3dt8P8j
Due my health problems (for sometime now, some members here knows about it) i was unable to loggin at that time, so i missed the meeting and i get on it later. Then i see that Warum delete his account... I check group chat and no new msg and Warum was missing from the group.
Instead i have a msg from DW asking me where to send the funds (!) and i was very surpise by that since we didnt say that i will get ANY KIND OF FUNDS from either of them (DW and Warum) and i ask him about what funds he is talking about. https://imgur.com/dk9zniP
My question to DW and to all others who see it as a scam try is this: Why to do this since i didnt ask any amount of funds and the only % that i want to take was the escrow fee, IF any escrow fee occured. Nothing more and nothing less. Perhaps the thing that i dont want to loss possible clients, seems too much. But we all know that having clients with a valid collateral is more than rare these days and thats why any income will do, at least for me.
I also dont want to write more than i can or to see this as an act of drama but it will be good/ better to talk before you judge so easilly.
And no, my name is not Tom!
EDIT: P.S I'm not mention the fact that i never say to DW to send first, in any case. I'm being in Lending so much time to say something like this...
First I want to say that I appreciate you responding, which I feel is a big step for taking accountability.
Second, I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with your assessment of the situation. I did back up the chat-log, and I'll post links for everyone to see. At this point I think it's fair for the community to decide.
Here are my back-ups from Telegram. I've included a signature for the Zip file.
Zip file with the Telegram conversations:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1VRSaHgAYds2aJhIz-gz89bXCaQDdGU0X
PGP signature for the zip file:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1MX1rfff7C3hyqS8I25j0bf7lXXvLrmZ8
EDIT: P.S I'm not mention the fact that i never say to DW to send first, in any case. I'm being in Lending so much time to say something like this...
This doesn't match DW's side of the story and I'm more inclined to believe him. According to him (and backed by chat logs) you requested the funds to be sent to you, and that BTC would be sent first, LTC collateral later.
What chat logs? Can you please show me the msg that i say that any funds to be sent to me?!
You may even consider the fact some other with similar name with mine to contact DW and told him whatever? That the only logic possibility that i can think off since i dont ask ANYTHING FROM ANYONE.
EDIT: P.S I'm not mention the fact that i never say to DW to send first, in any case. I'm being in Lending so much time to say something like this...
This doesn't match DW's side of the story and I'm more inclined to believe him. According to him (and backed by chat logs) you requested the funds to be sent to you, and that BTC would be sent first, LTC collateral later.
I think a high ranking, green trusted, DT2 member tried to scam me this past Thursday, but I don't really have definitive proof.
The Other Member (lets call him TOM,) sent me a PM asking me to connect with him on Telegram, which I did. The discussion was about a prospective loan client who wanted a loan that TOM was unable to fill. He asked if I could fill it, and since collateral was offered, I agreed to do so. TOM started a discussion with the client, and then things got weird. At some point it struck me that this might be a phishing attempt, but I continued along because I wasn't 100% sure (and I'm curious.)
TOM and the client wanted me to send the bitcoin to TOM's address first, which was to be followed by by the collateral being sent to me. Then TOM was to forward the loan to the client. This was a deal breaker for me, there was no way I was going to send first but I tried to appease the client by pointing him to my lending thread, providing a PGP signed message including the collateral address, and message signed with the address holding the coin. I even sent dust to the address TOM provided, to prove I had the coin.
About that address; I asked TOM to send me a signed message on the forum with the address to which I was supposed send the bitcoin. He sent me an address on Telegram, ignoring my requests to send it through the forum and include a signed message. The request for a signed message was made and ignored three times. The address had never been used before, and of course no reference to that address was found in a google search. Shortly after that I backed out.
I have exported the discussions from Telegram, but as you know these could easily be faked or modified which is why I say I don't have definitive proof. Of course I did not modify them, and I have them stored in a way that may help some day.
Once I started getting uneasy about the scenario it occurred to me that TOM's account might have been hacked, and it was possible the hacker sent me the original PM. There are no recent password changes on TOM's account, but hackers have been known to sneak into people's accounts, and send PMs to unsuspecting member phishing for a scam. So I gave TOM the benefit of the doubt. I sent my own PM to TOM, pretending that I lost his Telegram address, and asked that he resend it. The next morning I found a reply from TOM confirming the same Telegram address with which I had the discussion the previous night. This isn't to say that the account has not changed hands, or been hacked, but it does seem to confirm that whoever is in control of TOM's account is the same person I communicated with on Telegram Thursday.
Anyway, I don't want to get into a he-said/they-said drama by claiming some one is a potential scammer if I'm just being sensitive. And I certainly don't want to ruin someone's reputation if I'm wrong. But, most critically, If my hunch is right I don't want this guy scamming someone if I could do something about it. There were a lot of red flags during the discussion, and it behooves us all the recognize them.
1) Don't trust someone's rank.
2) Don't go by trust scores, verify their ratings and reasons behind them.
3) Insist on critical information be sent here on the forum, where you can verify and prove the contact.
4) Insist on signed messages if you are to send first in any trade.
5) Just because someone appears trustworthy here, doesn't mean they will be outside the forum.
The Other Member (lets call him TOM,) sent me a PM asking me to connect with him on Telegram, which I did. The discussion was about a prospective loan client who wanted a loan that TOM was unable to fill. He asked if I could fill it, and since collateral was offered, I agreed to do so. TOM started a discussion with the client, and then things got weird. At some point it struck me that this might be a phishing attempt, but I continued along because I wasn't 100% sure (and I'm curious.)
TOM and the client wanted me to send the bitcoin to TOM's address first, which was to be followed by by the collateral being sent to me. Then TOM was to forward the loan to the client. This was a deal breaker for me, there was no way I was going to send first but I tried to appease the client by pointing him to my lending thread, providing a PGP signed message including the collateral address, and message signed with the address holding the coin. I even sent dust to the address TOM provided, to prove I had the coin.
About that address; I asked TOM to send me a signed message on the forum with the address to which I was supposed send the bitcoin. He sent me an address on Telegram, ignoring my requests to send it through the forum and include a signed message. The request for a signed message was made and ignored three times. The address had never been used before, and of course no reference to that address was found in a google search. Shortly after that I backed out.
I have exported the discussions from Telegram, but as you know these could easily be faked or modified which is why I say I don't have definitive proof. Of course I did not modify them, and I have them stored in a way that may help some day.
Once I started getting uneasy about the scenario it occurred to me that TOM's account might have been hacked, and it was possible the hacker sent me the original PM. There are no recent password changes on TOM's account, but hackers have been known to sneak into people's accounts, and send PMs to unsuspecting member phishing for a scam. So I gave TOM the benefit of the doubt. I sent my own PM to TOM, pretending that I lost his Telegram address, and asked that he resend it. The next morning I found a reply from TOM confirming the same Telegram address with which I had the discussion the previous night. This isn't to say that the account has not changed hands, or been hacked, but it does seem to confirm that whoever is in control of TOM's account is the same person I communicated with on Telegram Thursday.
Anyway, I don't want to get into a he-said/they-said drama by claiming some one is a potential scammer if I'm just being sensitive. And I certainly don't want to ruin someone's reputation if I'm wrong. But, most critically, If my hunch is right I don't want this guy scamming someone if I could do something about it. There were a lot of red flags during the discussion, and it behooves us all the recognize them.
1) Don't trust someone's rank.
2) Don't go by trust scores, verify their ratings and reasons behind them.
3) Insist on critical information be sent here on the forum, where you can verify and prove the contact.
4) Insist on signed messages if you are to send first in any trade.
5) Just because someone appears trustworthy here, doesn't mean they will be outside the forum.
Well it seems like the TOM guy is me, because i contact DW for a loan that i couldnt fill about 55 LTC!
Some things though here is very innaccurate like that i want to scam (!!!) DW. So let's take things step by step:
1: I get a message from a guy who has a username with another member here in TG. I saw it so i figure that probably was the same person, which now i really dought. He write to me that he wants a loan on BTC or ETH. So far so good from my side, the problem though was that i havent in my hot wallet the amount that this guy asked. https://imgur.com/bYrJT37.
2: Because of my recent loss due i fall to a scam site, i think to contact another "fellow" lender around that can probably fill it or cooperate with me on it. So i keep talking with the client and explain things, like how much collateral must have etc. The guy though vanish for a while. https://imgur.com/R349Oxm
3: At that time i contact DW since he is one of the members here and especialy in Lending section that i believe he is trusted enough. I didn't say to him though that i want ANY kind of amount from this deal (lending funds or collateral funds) in my wallets. So for bettet communication i make a group with the 3 of us,. Client (Warum the "name"), me and DW.
In this chat i specificaly said that the collateral funds will be held by DW and NOT ME. https://imgur.com/FkPnNUT
Why? But because if i cant fill it all then i preffer the other part/ cooperateror/ time partner not to EVEN think that i'm tring to do whatever. Think DW miss this msg...
4. The group chat ended with the agreement to chat again the next day at 14:00' CET. https://imgur.com/3dt8P8j
Due my health problems (for sometime now, some members here knows about it) i was unable to loggin at that time, so i missed the meeting and i get on it later. Then i see that Warum delete his account... I check group chat and no new msg and Warum was missing from the group.
Instead i have a msg from DW asking me where to send the funds (!) and i was very surpise by that since we didnt say that i will get ANY KIND OF FUNDS from either of them (DW and Warum) and i ask him about what funds he is talking about. https://imgur.com/dk9zniP
My question to DW and to all others who see it as a scam try is this: Why to do this since i didnt ask any amount of funds and the only % that i want to take was the escrow fee, IF any escrow fee occured. Nothing more and nothing less. Perhaps the thing that i dont want to loss possible clients, seems too much. But we all know that having clients with a valid collateral is more than rare these days and thats why any income will do, at least for me.
I also dont want to write more than i can or to see this as an act of drama but it will be good/ better to talk before you judge so easilly.
And no, my name is not Tom!
EDIT: P.S I'm not mention the fact that i never say to DW to send first, in any case. I'm being in Lending so much time to say something like this...
How much was asked for?
The offer was for 55 LTC as collateral, which calculated to 0.313 BTC. I never saw proof of the collateral, but since I wasn't willing to send first, I didn't ask for proof.
I'd say you should tag the account. You may not have definite proof, but from your story you're convinced it's either a scam attempt, or a compromised account. Both scenarios deserve a tag. The lack of evidence might not be enough for others to tag TOM too, but should be enough for your own tag.
I was thinking a neutral tag would be appropriate, since I didn't really get scammed. Although I did send the dust to his address, which is yet to be returned (I offered to pay the Tx fees.) I have asked TOM to respond here here and address this thread if he wants. I would rather wait for his response (or lack of) before tagging him.
The Other Member.. sent me a PM asking me to connect with him on Telegram
Stop right there.I must admit I find Telegram to be quite convenient for some discussions. I've used it to communicate with other members of the forum without issue.
Agree with what everyone else said.
If you red trust the account you can always remove it if you were wrong.
If they don't know they were compromised, then it's another way to reach them. Or let someone know IRL that there is an issue.
I'm a perfect example, there are at least 3 people on this board who have my cell #. If something was off with my account I would like to think that if they saw it at least ONE of them would send me a text or call.
-Dave
If you red trust the account you can always remove it if you were wrong.
If they don't know they were compromised, then it's another way to reach them. Or let someone know IRL that there is an issue.
I'm a perfect example, there are at least 3 people on this board who have my cell #. If something was off with my account I would like to think that if they saw it at least ONE of them would send me a text or call.
-Dave
...
The Other Member.. sent me a PM asking me to connect with him on Telegram
...
The Other Member.. sent me a PM asking me to connect with him on Telegram
...
Stop right there.
Neut-neg trust the account. Also, flagging might help too. Their account might be compromised without their knowledge and someone might be sending PMs (and have turned off PM notifications for received ones) and deleting them afterwards. The accused can sign a message from their staked address or PGP if they have any to clear themselves.
This is why I like deals discussed and agreed upon in open transparent threads, not in PMs, and much less on Telegram..
The redundant formalities seen in lending threads of a formal loan request, a formal contract offer, and a formal agreement to the contract by both parties before any coin or collateral are sent, is great protection for both parties because then everyone can see exactly what the contract is and that both parties agreed to it..
I refuse offers to migrate to Telegram from Bitcointalk.. That in itself is a huge red flag according to me..
I have done deals on telegram but only when it started on Telegram in the first place, and have offered to use BTCT escrow from Telegram, not the other way around..
The only time I have ever been scammed in Crypto was on YIM taken there from the Cryptsy trollbox long before I ever registered an account on BTCT, and learned my lesson.. Was like a $30 amazon gift card I was trying to sell for BTC and got ripped off.. Oh well..
I don't think that ALL cases of refusing to accept escrow, or refusal to deal on your legit terms, is proper grounds for a tag, but can be, and are often 100% suspicious..
Your case does sound extremely suspicious like they were trying to scam you, and if you have any reason to believe that they are also targeting others with this possible scam attempt, maybe you should bring awareness of it to the community..
It does sound like a somewhat sophisticated scam attempt aiming at a big target..
The redundant formalities seen in lending threads of a formal loan request, a formal contract offer, and a formal agreement to the contract by both parties before any coin or collateral are sent, is great protection for both parties because then everyone can see exactly what the contract is and that both parties agreed to it..
I refuse offers to migrate to Telegram from Bitcointalk.. That in itself is a huge red flag according to me..
I have done deals on telegram but only when it started on Telegram in the first place, and have offered to use BTCT escrow from Telegram, not the other way around..
The only time I have ever been scammed in Crypto was on YIM taken there from the Cryptsy trollbox long before I ever registered an account on BTCT, and learned my lesson.. Was like a $30 amazon gift card I was trying to sell for BTC and got ripped off.. Oh well..
I don't think that ALL cases of refusing to accept escrow, or refusal to deal on your legit terms, is proper grounds for a tag, but can be, and are often 100% suspicious..
Your case does sound extremely suspicious like they were trying to scam you, and if you have any reason to believe that they are also targeting others with this possible scam attempt, maybe you should bring awareness of it to the community..
It does sound like a somewhat sophisticated scam attempt aiming at a big target..
a loan that TOM was unable to fill.
How much was asked for?Quote
TOM and the client wanted me to send the bitcoin to TOM's address first, which was to be followed by by the collateral being sent to me.
This should always be a red flag. It's only collateral if you have it first, or if it's in the hands of a trusted escrow.Quote
The request for a signed message was made and ignored three times.
I'd say you should tag the account. You may not have definite proof, but from your story you're convinced it's either a scam attempt, or a compromised account. Both scenarios deserve a tag. The lack of evidence might not be enough for others to tag TOM too, but should be enough for your own tag. 
DireWolfM14
You acted very correctly that you were disciplined and did not enter into a deal on terms that initially seemed favorable.
I hope I don’t hurt anyone, but I think that all your points can be reduced to one thing: do not trust anyone.
Everyone saw many examples (both in life and on the forum) when a person with a potential profit (from scamming) of $ 1000 was honest, but at $ 100k he already spat on principles.
The most effective solution to the issue is its public discussion, but I perfectly understand your unwillingness to enter into a clarification of relations and the attached drama.
There are many different nuances and it is not clear how to do the right thing. It’s possible (if Tom deceives someone) then you will blame yourself (for inaction), or vice versa if a rational explanation of his behavior is found out, then you will blame yourself (for action) for the attempt on his reputation.
You acted very correctly that you were disciplined and did not enter into a deal on terms that initially seemed favorable.
I hope I don’t hurt anyone, but I think that all your points can be reduced to one thing: do not trust anyone.
Everyone saw many examples (both in life and on the forum) when a person with a potential profit (from scamming) of $ 1000 was honest, but at $ 100k he already spat on principles.
Anyway, I don't want to get into a he-said/they-said drama by claiming some one is a potential scammer if I'm just being sensitive. And I certainly don't want to ruin someone's reputation if I'm wrong. But, most critically, If my hunch is right I don't want this guy scamming someone if I could do something about it.
The most effective solution to the issue is its public discussion, but I perfectly understand your unwillingness to enter into a clarification of relations and the attached drama.
There are many different nuances and it is not clear how to do the right thing. It’s possible (if Tom deceives someone) then you will blame yourself (for inaction), or vice versa if a rational explanation of his behavior is found out, then you will blame yourself (for action) for the attempt on his reputation.
Good job listening to your spidey senses.
Not sure what it is about this week, but you may have almost joined a group of people who know better getting scammed. I am going to agree with TP on this that you should point TOM to this thread to discuss/offer up an explanation. Personally when something shady happens people need to speak up, to prevent potential losses down the line. Seeing as you are a Lender in your own right, it should have ended at them coming directly to you with no middleman involved, once you provided that information. Hell if the Loan was successful you could have tossed TOM some commission or something; neither here nor there. Just a possible scenario why there was no need for there to be a middleman in this deal.
I wouldn't worry about being wrong. Someone brought you a shady deal, refused to sign messages to verify their account inline with forum practices. There is no harm in having them come here and offer up their side of the story. If it's above board it's nothing more than a deal you weren't comfortable with and everyone moves on.
Not sure what it is about this week, but you may have almost joined a group of people who know better getting scammed. I am going to agree with TP on this that you should point TOM to this thread to discuss/offer up an explanation. Personally when something shady happens people need to speak up, to prevent potential losses down the line. Seeing as you are a Lender in your own right, it should have ended at them coming directly to you with no middleman involved, once you provided that information. Hell if the Loan was successful you could have tossed TOM some commission or something; neither here nor there. Just a possible scenario why there was no need for there to be a middleman in this deal.
I wouldn't worry about being wrong. Someone brought you a shady deal, refused to sign messages to verify their account inline with forum practices. There is no harm in having them come here and offer up their side of the story. If it's above board it's nothing more than a deal you weren't comfortable with and everyone moves on.
Not sure if it would have helped in this case, which sounds fishy I agree, but I believe in general there can be great benefits if the forum also appoints a few "official" escrows (similar to the treasurer position) and that message gets pinned somewhere, and so anyone who wants to do a transaction above a certain threshold amount can point the counterparty to that message, so all these send first / second dramas can be avoided...
In my experience, many people conducting trades are even ambivalent about trusting escrows now, especially when suggested by the counterparty, as the trust system also has a lot of subjectively biased aspects to it...
In my experience, many people conducting trades are even ambivalent about trusting escrows now, especially when suggested by the counterparty, as the trust system also has a lot of subjectively biased aspects to it...
You were smart to back out of the deal, because it sounds fishy as hell to me.
I don't know what other members think about this, but I think you ought to identify TOM and invite him to explain himself in this thread--no negative trust needs to be given, but you're right about the potential of someone else getting scammed if that's what's going on here (and I'm not saying it is). I did much the same thing a couple of years ago with gameristo, because I had doubts about him using multiple PayPal accounts. I had enough doubt in my mind to question it in public but I wasn't willing to go so far as to neg him, and regardless of those PayPal accounts he's always been honest with me.
I don't know what other members think about this, but I think you ought to identify TOM and invite him to explain himself in this thread--no negative trust needs to be given, but you're right about the potential of someone else getting scammed if that's what's going on here (and I'm not saying it is). I did much the same thing a couple of years ago with gameristo, because I had doubts about him using multiple PayPal accounts. I had enough doubt in my mind to question it in public but I wasn't willing to go so far as to neg him, and regardless of those PayPal accounts he's always been honest with me.
1) Don't trust someone's rank.
2) Don't go by trust scores, verify their ratings and reasons behind them.
These two points are something all noobs should learn as soon as they register here, because accounts get sold, hacked, and even senior members with green trust can and have pulled off scams. You just never know for sure who you're dealing with. Your other points which I didn't quote are valid as well. 2) Don't go by trust scores, verify their ratings and reasons behind them.
I think a high ranking, green trusted, DT2 member tried to scam me this past Thursday, but I don't really have definitive proof.
The Other Member (lets call him TOM,) sent me a PM asking me to connect with him on Telegram, which I did. The discussion was about a prospective loan client who wanted a loan that TOM was unable to fill. He asked if I could fill it, and since collateral was offered, I agreed to do so. TOM started a discussion with the client, and then things got weird. At some point it struck me that this might be a phishing attempt, but I continued along because I wasn't 100% sure (and I'm curious.)
TOM and the client wanted me to send the bitcoin to TOM's address first, which was to be followed by by the collateral being sent to me. Then TOM was to forward the loan to the client. This was a deal breaker for me, there was no way I was going to send first but I tried to appease the client by pointing him to my lending thread, providing a PGP signed message including the collateral address, and message signed with the address holding the coin. I even sent dust to the address TOM provided, to prove I had the coin.
About that address; I asked TOM to send me a signed message on the forum with the address to which I was supposed send the bitcoin. He sent me an address on Telegram, ignoring my requests to send it through the forum and include a signed message. The request for a signed message was made and ignored three times. The address had never been used before, and of course no reference to that address was found in a google search. Shortly after that I backed out.
I have exported the discussions from Telegram, but as you know these could easily be faked or modified which is why I say I don't have definitive proof. Of course I did not modify them, and I have them stored in a way that may help some day.
Once I started getting uneasy about the scenario it occurred to me that TOM's account might have been hacked, and it was possible the hacker sent me the original PM. There are no recent password changes on TOM's account, but hackers have been known to sneak into people's accounts, and send PMs to unsuspecting member phishing for a scam. So I gave TOM the benefit of the doubt. I sent my own PM to TOM, pretending that I lost his Telegram address, and asked that he resend it. The next morning I found a reply from TOM confirming the same Telegram address with which I had the discussion the previous night. This isn't to say that the account has not changed hands, or been hacked, but it does seem to confirm that whoever is in control of TOM's account is the same person I communicated with on Telegram Thursday.
Anyway, I don't want to get into a he-said/they-said drama by claiming some one is a potential scammer if I'm just being sensitive. And I certainly don't want to ruin someone's reputation if I'm wrong. But, most critically, If my hunch is right I don't want this guy scamming someone if I could do something about it. There were a lot of red flags during the discussion, and it behooves us all the recognize them.
1) Don't trust someone's rank.
2) Don't go by trust scores, verify their ratings and reasons behind them.
3) Insist on critical information be sent here on the forum, where you can verify and prove the contact.
4) Insist on signed messages if you are to send first in any trade.
5) Just because someone appears trustworthy here, doesn't mean they will be outside the forum.
The Other Member (lets call him TOM,) sent me a PM asking me to connect with him on Telegram, which I did. The discussion was about a prospective loan client who wanted a loan that TOM was unable to fill. He asked if I could fill it, and since collateral was offered, I agreed to do so. TOM started a discussion with the client, and then things got weird. At some point it struck me that this might be a phishing attempt, but I continued along because I wasn't 100% sure (and I'm curious.)
TOM and the client wanted me to send the bitcoin to TOM's address first, which was to be followed by by the collateral being sent to me. Then TOM was to forward the loan to the client. This was a deal breaker for me, there was no way I was going to send first but I tried to appease the client by pointing him to my lending thread, providing a PGP signed message including the collateral address, and message signed with the address holding the coin. I even sent dust to the address TOM provided, to prove I had the coin.
About that address; I asked TOM to send me a signed message on the forum with the address to which I was supposed send the bitcoin. He sent me an address on Telegram, ignoring my requests to send it through the forum and include a signed message. The request for a signed message was made and ignored three times. The address had never been used before, and of course no reference to that address was found in a google search. Shortly after that I backed out.
I have exported the discussions from Telegram, but as you know these could easily be faked or modified which is why I say I don't have definitive proof. Of course I did not modify them, and I have them stored in a way that may help some day.
Once I started getting uneasy about the scenario it occurred to me that TOM's account might have been hacked, and it was possible the hacker sent me the original PM. There are no recent password changes on TOM's account, but hackers have been known to sneak into people's accounts, and send PMs to unsuspecting member phishing for a scam. So I gave TOM the benefit of the doubt. I sent my own PM to TOM, pretending that I lost his Telegram address, and asked that he resend it. The next morning I found a reply from TOM confirming the same Telegram address with which I had the discussion the previous night. This isn't to say that the account has not changed hands, or been hacked, but it does seem to confirm that whoever is in control of TOM's account is the same person I communicated with on Telegram Thursday.
Anyway, I don't want to get into a he-said/they-said drama by claiming some one is a potential scammer if I'm just being sensitive. And I certainly don't want to ruin someone's reputation if I'm wrong. But, most critically, If my hunch is right I don't want this guy scamming someone if I could do something about it. There were a lot of red flags during the discussion, and it behooves us all the recognize them.
1) Don't trust someone's rank.
2) Don't go by trust scores, verify their ratings and reasons behind them.
3) Insist on critical information be sent here on the forum, where you can verify and prove the contact.
4) Insist on signed messages if you are to send first in any trade.
5) Just because someone appears trustworthy here, doesn't mean they will be outside the forum.
Jump to: