I guess that banks are starting to make some resistance
Topic: SecondMarket CEO: Wall Street Will Put 'Hundreds of Millions' Into Bitcoin (Read 4711 times)
December 12, 2013, 10:08:55 PM
I guess that banks are starting to make some resistance
December 12, 2013, 06:36:25 PM
He is saying in three to six months but how exactly he estimates that window? What will happen in 3 - 6 months that 'll drive wall street into bitcoin? Anyway lets hope.
December 12, 2013, 06:21:34 PM
Does anyone not think that a lot of this money we are expecting to see from Wall Street and institutional investors has already invested?
I think they are already in, they got in late October to early November and that was the cause of the rally.
I have a hard time believing they are just sitting on the sidelines watching the price go up before jumping in. The price increased 10x during the rally, we started seeing $1m+ bids.
Why do we believe these articles? I think it may be possible they are already in and now are hyping it up.
I think they are already in, they got in late October to early November and that was the cause of the rally.
I have a hard time believing they are just sitting on the sidelines watching the price go up before jumping in. The price increased 10x during the rally, we started seeing $1m+ bids.
Why do we believe these articles? I think it may be possible they are already in and now are hyping it up.
No. The exchange rate can not be this low if Wall Street has gotten involved in any serious manner. Perhaps some have put their little toe in, but that is all.
There is a lot of money in Wall Street.
I'm not saying they've put all they money they want in, but I think they are already in and have fairly significant positions (which they could use to manipulate the price if they want to put more money in). We just saw a 10x increase in price.
Check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tume6vspgeg
Nejc Kodric (Bitstamp CEO) in late October, says he thinks the price is rising because of institutional investors. He runs the second biggest exchange, I think he'd have a pretty good idea.
Like I said, their toes are wet.
I wait eagerly for them to jump in
December 12, 2013, 06:18:28 PM
Does anyone not think that a lot of this money we are expecting to see from Wall Street and institutional investors has already invested?
I think they are already in, they got in late October to early November and that was the cause of the rally.
I have a hard time believing they are just sitting on the sidelines watching the price go up before jumping in. The price increased 10x during the rally, we started seeing $1m+ bids.
Why do we believe these articles? I think it may be possible they are already in and now are hyping it up.
I think they are already in, they got in late October to early November and that was the cause of the rally.
I have a hard time believing they are just sitting on the sidelines watching the price go up before jumping in. The price increased 10x during the rally, we started seeing $1m+ bids.
Why do we believe these articles? I think it may be possible they are already in and now are hyping it up.
No. The exchange rate can not be this low if Wall Street has gotten involved in any serious manner. Perhaps some have put their little toe in, but that is all.
There is a lot of money in Wall Street.
I'm not saying they've put all they money they want in, but I think they are already in and have fairly significant positions (which they could use to manipulate the price if they want to put more money in). We just saw a 10x increase in price.
Check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tume6vspgeg
Nejc Kodric (Bitstamp CEO) in late October, says he thinks the price is rising because of institutional investors. He runs the second biggest exchange, I think he'd have a pretty good idea.
December 12, 2013, 06:12:31 PM
Does anyone not think that a lot of this money we are expecting to see from Wall Street and institutional investors has already invested?
I think they are already in, they got in late October to early November and that was the cause of the rally.
I have a hard time believing they are just sitting on the sidelines watching the price go up before jumping in. The price increased 10x during the rally, we started seeing $1m+ bids.
Why do we believe these articles? I think it may be possible they are already in and now are hyping it up.
I think they are already in, they got in late October to early November and that was the cause of the rally.
I have a hard time believing they are just sitting on the sidelines watching the price go up before jumping in. The price increased 10x during the rally, we started seeing $1m+ bids.
Why do we believe these articles? I think it may be possible they are already in and now are hyping it up.
December 12, 2013, 06:11:56 PM
lol, this is coming from 2nd Market CEO, not reliable.
Why?
Wouldn't getting caught in a big fat lie hurt his little fund which has done fantastic so far? It seems like a big risk to take when you are already doing quite well.
Then again... humans! LOL.
Well... if it's not true, I would call it a big fat lie! LOL!
So... here we are.
http://blogs.marketwatch.com/thetell/2013/12/12/fidelity-halts-bitcoin-investments-from-iras/
This all seems to be a clusterfuck of misunderstanding. Second Market can take accredited investors IRA money. Including those with Fidelity. Its been that way for a while I believe. Fidelity responded to the "news" story yesterday by saying it wasn't open to their (regular) clients.
December 12, 2013, 05:58:37 PM
Factor 10-100 below Market Cap.
Just check the amount of coins traded.
99% are in cold storage. It's impossible for everyone to get rich.
There isn't even enough to pay everyone 50$ per coin.
Hopefully there won't be a bankrun in bitcoin or we'll see a 99% crash.
hasnt been thus far, but (shrug) Just check the amount of coins traded.
99% are in cold storage. It's impossible for everyone to get rich.
There isn't even enough to pay everyone 50$ per coin.
Hopefully there won't be a bankrun in bitcoin or we'll see a 99% crash.
December 12, 2013, 04:16:30 PM
Factor 10-100 below Market Cap.
Just check the amount of coins traded.
99% are in cold storage. It's impossible for everyone to get rich.
There isn't even enough to pay everyone 50$ per coin.
Hopefully there won't be a bankrun in bitcoin or we'll see a 99% crash.
Just check the amount of coins traded.
99% are in cold storage. It's impossible for everyone to get rich.
There isn't even enough to pay everyone 50$ per coin.
Hopefully there won't be a bankrun in bitcoin or we'll see a 99% crash.
December 12, 2013, 04:13:45 PM
Suppose there are 10 things. Things 1 through 9 just happened to be bought at $1 each. According to those trades, the market capitalization is 10 * $1 = $10. But, how much is the last one really worth? Suppose the seller regrets selling the first 9 so cheaply. So, they sell the last one for $100 and just so happens to find a buyer. Now based on the last/latest sale, the market capitalization is 10 * $100 = $1,000 *but* only $109 have changed hands.
My questions is, "How much fiat has changed hands so far in the exchange of Bitcoins?"
My questions is, "How much fiat has changed hands so far in the exchange of Bitcoins?"
December 12, 2013, 03:46:03 PM
Aha! Thanks of course, the price is bought UP to $10k. Makes sense now.
of course, the price is bought UP to $10k. Makes sense now.And also don't forget that it does not take 50 actual billions to move the price to 10k, it just takes as much as orderbook depth on all exchanges, and that is usually a tiny bit of the total amount of coins (right now, about 1% of coins are in asks). So the approximate amount of money needed to take us to 10k today is about 500million only. Of course, there will be crashes and new coins would be coming to exchanges once the price grows, as happens now at 1k, etc etc, so to get the actual sustained value of 10k per coin there has to be several billion incoming, not 100 though. Still pretty realistic.
Thanks for the excellent explanation. Hopefully it will get people to stop the n × 12 million or n × 21 million calculations.
December 12, 2013, 03:12:36 PM
Aha! Thanks of course, the price is bought UP to $10k. Makes sense now.
of course, the price is bought UP to $10k. Makes sense now.And also don't forget that it does not take 50 actual billions to move the price to 10k, it just takes as much as orderbook depth on all exchanges, and that is usually a tiny bit of the total amount of coins (right now, about 1% of coins are in asks). So the approximate amount of money needed to take us to 10k today is about 500million only. Of course, there will be crashes and new coins would be coming to exchanges once the price grows, as happens now at 1k, etc etc, so to get the actual sustained value of 10k per coin there has to be several billion incoming, not 100 though. Still pretty realistic.
December 12, 2013, 02:32:38 PM
I think it's funny when people say big investment funds wouldn't put people's money into bitcoin. These are the same people who bought greek debt and collateralised sub-prime mortage products. They are insane and they have trillions.
qft!
December 12, 2013, 12:51:41 PM
Don't forget that these funds now make it more likely that we'll see fractional reserve banking in bitcoins, and options to short bitcoins using those additional funds. Regulators don't exactly have a great track record of verifying that commodity funds actually have possession of underlying assets (see gold and silver ETF's). And I doubt that the funds will be willing to disclose cold storage public addresses.
December 12, 2013, 11:39:48 AM
Are people with a ton of Bitcoin slowly selling theirs, making this a type of Ponzi scheme after all?
what? how selling by early adopters equates ponzi in your mind?
many people who bought cheaper are taking profits when they see the moment is right (before a serious resistance), and that same thing happens in *every* market, why the hell would that be a ponzi? do you even know the definition?He means a pyramid scheme. I am tired of people calling it a Ponzi scheme when they mean to say pyramid scheme. Bitcoin does have some pyramid scheme aura around it based on the fact that no one knows how many coins Satoshi has, and less than 50 addresses have almost half of all the coins in existence.
It's not a pyramid scheme though because those people will spend or cash out when their coins are worth millions or billions.
December 12, 2013, 11:00:30 AM
It takes time for people to research Bitcoin and learn how to store it, etc. You think people are just going to see the news and know what the hell to do to make a secure wallet? That they even comprehend what Bitcoin is after seeing it in a news article? It takes several weeks at minimum, and the price just rose nearly an order of magnitude. These are seismic wealth increases for holders so they are being sold into, as should be well expected. Do you expect an early adopter to maintain a 90% crypto portfolio, and then a 99% one, without rebalancing!? Until the media hype overpowers that effect, and it does look like this past week may be getting there (meaning a boost a few weeks from now), the price will consolidate.
People have no idea what is a Dollar. Still, they use it everyday.
December 12, 2013, 10:45:05 AM
Aha! Thanks of course, the price is bought UP to $10k. Makes sense now.
of course, the price is bought UP to $10k. Makes sense now. 
December 12, 2013, 10:34:05 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Current market cap is roughly $900 x 12m coins = $10.8bn
To go to $10,000/BTC market cap (with current coin count) would have to be $10,000 x 12m = $120bn.
So to go to those levels we need an extra $109bn invested... suddenly wall street's 'hundreds of millions' doesn't seem so great, not even pushing us to $1000?
I must be making a mistake in the maths, please point it out.
You are assuming that every coin is bought for at least $ 10 000 dollar here, that's your mistake. Current market cap is roughly $900 x 12m coins = $10.8bn
To go to $10,000/BTC market cap (with current coin count) would have to be $10,000 x 12m = $120bn.
So to go to those levels we need an extra $109bn invested... suddenly wall street's 'hundreds of millions' doesn't seem so great, not even pushing us to $1000?
I must be making a mistake in the maths, please point it out.
December 12, 2013, 10:31:55 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Current market cap is roughly $900 x 12m coins = $10.8bn
To go to $10,000/BTC market cap (with current coin count) would have to be $10,000 x 12m = $120bn.
So to go to those levels we need an extra $109bn invested... suddenly wall street's 'hundreds of millions' doesn't seem so great, not even pushing us to $1000?
I must be making a mistake in the maths, please point it out.
Current market cap is roughly $900 x 12m coins = $10.8bn
To go to $10,000/BTC market cap (with current coin count) would have to be $10,000 x 12m = $120bn.
So to go to those levels we need an extra $109bn invested... suddenly wall street's 'hundreds of millions' doesn't seem so great, not even pushing us to $1000?
I must be making a mistake in the maths, please point it out.
December 12, 2013, 09:52:44 AM
Self-directed IRAs from the providers mentioned can basically invest in anything so there is no news there. You can setup an LLC and use your IRA to invest in illiquid investments like real estate. This is why it's called a 'self-directed' IRA.
Being picked up by wealth management platforms would be big news, though. I can see this happening -- I just wonder if it will be a thing for retail investors or more for private clients.
Being picked up by wealth management platforms would be big news, though. I can see this happening -- I just wonder if it will be a thing for retail investors or more for private clients.
December 12, 2013, 09:22:11 AM
I think the rise we saw to $1200 was frontrunning the development of a Bitcoin IRA through SecondMarket. This "story" is just reinforcing what everyone already knew. If those hundreds of millions actually come through, we'll see a steady increase in price over months, not some big jump.
IMO, we'll see another leap in prices when the Winkelvoss ETF is closer to launching.
IMO, we'll see another leap in prices when the Winkelvoss ETF is closer to launching.
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