SEGWIT, where are the lower fees? | Bitcointalksearch.org

HeRetiK

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Quote from: kryptqnick on August 27, 2017, 01:15:11 AM

Quote from: HeRetiK on August 25, 2017, 04:20:07 AM

snip
SegWit wasn't fully activated until yesterday, so that time you payed the lower fee was during a time of less transaction traffic.

But if Segwit is activated now, is there any way to become a part of this upgrade? Do I have to do something for it to happen? Or will blockchain.info make transactions have segwit automatically? Can anyone help me with this?

Different wallets will have different roadmaps on when they are ready to support SegWit. I know that SatoshiLabs are planning to add Bitcoin SegWit support to their Trezor beta-wallet in a few days, so I guess other wallet providers won't be far behind. The way I understood it you'll have to move your BTC to a SegWit enabled address first (starting with a "3", like a multi-sig address) before being able to send a SegWit transaction, so that part of the process will probably be manual and require action on your side.

Quote from: kryptqnick on August 27, 2017, 01:15:11 AM

Quote from: Carlsen on August 25, 2017, 08:06:15 AM

I still see the spam problem and nobody was able to explain it to me yet.
If a majority of the transactions we see at the moment are spam, and segwit needs to be activated by the user, how will segwit help to decrease the mempool?
The guys who make the spam transactions will simply not activate segwit.
Or have I missed something?

I'm sorry, I haven't found any sufficient explanation of this problem in this thread. What is it about? Why are you saying that most transactions are actually spam?

There's rumour that since that BTC has been under a spam transaction attack since at least the beginning of the year (ie. since the scaling debate started to get serious). Thus making the network seem more over capacity than it actually is. One thing that speaks for this rumor is that the spam attacks subseded late Juli when SegWit (or was it Segwit2x?) locked in.

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Quote from: HeRetiK on August 25, 2017, 04:20:07 AM

snip
SegWit wasn't fully activated until yesterday, so that time you payed the lower fee was during a time of less transaction traffic.

But if Segwit is activated now, is there any way to become a part of this upgrade? Do I have to do something for it to happen? Or will blockchain.info make transactions have segwit automatically? Can anyone help me with this?

Quote from: Carlsen on August 25, 2017, 08:06:15 AM

I still see the spam problem and nobody was able to explain it to me yet.
If a majority of the transactions we see at the moment are spam, and segwit needs to be activated by the user, how will segwit help to decrease the mempool?
The guys who make the spam transactions will simply not activate segwit.
Or have I missed something?

I'm sorry, I haven't found any sufficient explanation of this problem in this thread. What is it about? Why are you saying that most transactions are actually spam?

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Quote from: Kunlejoe0 on August 25, 2017, 12:48:45 PM

Quote from: erikalui on August 25, 2017, 12:31:30 PM

I can see only Ledger supporting Segwit transactions which means that we could pay lower fees with ledger now but still the fee is not as less as it was earlier. I used to pay $0.05 initially in 2015 and now I pay almost $3-$4 for even small transactions like 0.02. Segwit has reduced the fee by 35%.

Good news right there.I paid $10 earlier to send $15 in Luno. It wasn't pleasant at all

That's why bitcoin will probably never become a payment system, only stay a digital gold and some other crypto will take over as a crypto payment system. High bet on Omise and their token that will be used in the SEA area (OMG) by all their customers/merchants that now use Omise's payment system, 2018 they release their own blockchain, everything is backed by Ethereum founders and OMG is the first Plasma project. Eventually everyone will be moved to OMG ($500M money processed every day today by Omise will be moved to OMG automatically) and OMG becoming the first used blockchain technology widely used by people that don't know about blockchain. McDonald's in Thailand already signed for using OMG. Bitcoin is not a future of crypto, but entry and end point for most of the people on this forum that doesn't mean much to the crypto community anymore, because it's too bitcoin-centric.

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Quote from: erikalui on August 25, 2017, 12:31:30 PM

I can see only Ledger supporting Segwit transactions which means that we could pay lower fees with ledger now but still the fee is not as less as it was earlier. I used to pay $0.05 initially in 2015 and now I pay almost $3-$4 for even small transactions like 0.02. Segwit has reduced the fee by 35%.

Good news right there.I paid $10 earlier to send $15 in Luno. It wasn't pleasant at all

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I can see only Ledger supporting Segwit transactions which means that we could pay lower fees with ledger now but still the fee is not as less as it was earlier. I used to pay $0.05 initially in 2015 and now I pay almost $3-$4 for even small transactions like 0.02. Segwit has reduced the fee by 35%.

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Quote from: Carlsen on August 25, 2017, 08:06:15 AM

I still see the spam problem and nobody was able to explain it to me yet.
If a majority of the transactions we see at the moment are spam, and segwit needs to be activated by the user, how will segwit help to decrease the mempool?
The guys who make the spam transactions will simply not activate segwit.
Or have I missed something?

If people are paying a fee for their transactions, then it isn't spam. Spam is transactions broadcast with no fees. And that stopped a few years ago when they phased out the free transactions thing.

krizniq

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sorry but this is SO BADLY COMMUNICATED it's so freaking obvious...
even core wallet is not ready to make segwit transactions.

Don't be mistaken, i'm bitcoin believer, but what they are now doing is just slow suicide. Marketing is really needed here, and now it looks like bunch of nerds closed behind dark doors making changes in code which cannot be really used by much people.

Are even people aware that they have to transfer their btc to different wallet?

Let's not talk about people in here, they probably know, but regular Joe? not a fucking clue.

This is all wrong ;/

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Quote from: wuvdoll on August 24, 2017, 02:27:24 PM

Quote from: mobnepal on August 24, 2017, 11:27:13 AM

Blocksize will be increased when segwit2x will be activated in november (if bitcoin core will agree on it) till than even after segwit activation blocksize will be 1 mb.

Yes, segwit was not about increasing the block-size but to shrink the size of transactions. That's why it was being call as soft-fork.

Probably we are going to see more number of transactions per block where as block size will be the same 1000 kB hence we can expect lower transaction fees as there will be no delay for confirmations. This will be another witness, we are going to experience due to segwit activation.

I don't believe it. There are always arguments in order not to reduce the price of the transaction. The miners are very greedy people. It is their quality prevented to negotiate and reach consensus. They are ready to break bitcoin to a lot of altcoins, but not to compromise.

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Quote from: Carlsen on August 25, 2017, 08:06:15 AM

Quote from: HeRetiK on August 25, 2017, 04:20:07 AM

Quote from: kryptqnick on August 25, 2017, 03:23:26 AM

Okay, but how to do the upgrade? At first after segwit I got this feeling that fee was reduced. I sent something which cost $150 at that time, payed something like 70 cents and got transaction confirmed within half an hour. But then about a week ago I wanted to send a small amount of money, worth $10, and had to pay $1 and something for the transaction! I remember that it has always been like that, if you send small sums - you pay more. But this is too much.
If I have a blockchain.info wallet, how can I upgrade to segwit transactions?

SegWit wasn't fully activated until yesterday, so that time you payed the lower fee was during a time of less transaction traffic. There was a timeframe of about 3-4 weeks between mid-Juli and mid-August were the network wasn't as congested as it is right now. That we are currently seeing hashrate oscillations between BTC and BCH doesn't help much either.

Either way we are in a bad situation right now. Let's see how things improve once SegWit transactions become more common. Also LN can't arrive soon enough.

I still see the spam problem and nobody was able to explain it to me yet.
If a majority of the transactions we see at the moment are spam, and segwit needs to be activated by the user, how will segwit help to decrease the mempool?
The guys who make the spam transactions will simply not activate segwit.
Or have I missed something?

I think the rationale is that SegWit transactions will be seen as much "lighter" by the network, thus needing less fees than a comparable legacy transaction (eg. all things being equal, a SegWit transaction with a USD 1,- fee would get included faster than a legacy transaction with a USD 1,- fee, as the SegWit transaction looks like it has paid more Satoshis per Kilobyte).

It follows that if you spam the network with legacy transactions, legit SegWit transactions would still take precedence unless legacy transaction spammers increase their network fee by the factor of 4, thus making a spam attack much more expensive (or less effective, depending on how you see it). This means that while the mempool would still be full, it wouldn't really matter all that much since the stuck transactions would most likely be legacy spam transactions anyways.

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Quote from: figmentofmyass on August 25, 2017, 02:59:41 AM

Quote from: frankiestyles on August 24, 2017, 11:44:34 PM

Hi Guys,

In terms of transactions fees - I just sent a large transaction on the Bitcoin Cash network.

Transaction happened almost instantaneously, fee was only $0.02.

The same amount on the now activated Segwit Bitcoin network. Fee is = $6.90

This really concerns me. I really do hope Segwit resolves this issue soon. It could see a large amount people shift to BCC in a short amount of time.

segwit won't resolve this overnight, and more importantly, it can't solve the issue of spam. highly secured, distributed storage (in addition to transfer of value) comes with a cost, and demand is high. unfortunately, a lot of users have this mentality where they are like impatient kids in the back seat of the car screaming, "are we there yet?!"

it's sensible that people are being cautious about moving their inputs to segwit addresses. major wallet providers like electrum haven't released their segwit-compatible wallet yet. it will take time for segwit's capacity increase to be felt. more importantly, the one-time capacity increase isn't a fix for this congestion. we need layer 2 solutions like sidechains and LN for that.

I don't think it will be resolved even in a year. Segwit is complicated to use. You need a compatible wallet (and how many people realise that?). Then you need special segwit addresses, and need to send from your existing address to the segwit address, incurring fees, and then from the segwit address to wherever you want to send.

Rule of thumb is that if you make people do too many steps to get where they want, they'll simply take another more direct route.

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To be candid, high tx fee is killing. I don't see lower fee in future since adoption rate of bitcoin is very high

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Quote from: Carlsen on August 25, 2017, 08:06:15 AM

Quote from: HeRetiK on August 25, 2017, 04:20:07 AM

Quote from: kryptqnick on August 25, 2017, 03:23:26 AM

Okay, but how to do the upgrade? At first after segwit I got this feeling that fee was reduced. I sent something which cost $150 at that time, payed something like 70 cents and got transaction confirmed within half an hour. But then about a week ago I wanted to send a small amount of money, worth $10, and had to pay $1 and something for the transaction! I remember that it has always been like that, if you send small sums - you pay more. But this is too much.
If I have a blockchain.info wallet, how can I upgrade to segwit transactions?

SegWit wasn't fully activated until yesterday, so that time you payed the lower fee was during a time of less transaction traffic. There was a timeframe of about 3-4 weeks between mid-Juli and mid-August were the network wasn't as congested as it is right now. That we are currently seeing hashrate oscillations between BTC and BCH doesn't help much either.

Either way we are in a bad situation right now. Let's see how things improve once SegWit transactions become more common. Also LN can't arrive soon enough.

I still see the spam problem and nobody was able to explain it to me yet.
If a majority of the transactions we see at the moment are spam, and segwit needs to be activated by the user, how will segwit help to decrease the mempool?
The guys who make the spam transactions will simply not activate segwit.
Or have I missed something?

According to some users Segwit won't even solve the problem, its just like a band aid for the current problem. transferred $40 and i paid around $8 for the fee. WTF this is why its so expensive to buy bitcoin today.

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Quote from: HeRetiK on August 25, 2017, 04:20:07 AM

Quote from: kryptqnick on August 25, 2017, 03:23:26 AM

Okay, but how to do the upgrade? At first after segwit I got this feeling that fee was reduced. I sent something which cost $150 at that time, payed something like 70 cents and got transaction confirmed within half an hour. But then about a week ago I wanted to send a small amount of money, worth $10, and had to pay $1 and something for the transaction! I remember that it has always been like that, if you send small sums - you pay more. But this is too much.
If I have a blockchain.info wallet, how can I upgrade to segwit transactions?

SegWit wasn't fully activated until yesterday, so that time you payed the lower fee was during a time of less transaction traffic. There was a timeframe of about 3-4 weeks between mid-Juli and mid-August were the network wasn't as congested as it is right now. That we are currently seeing hashrate oscillations between BTC and BCH doesn't help much either.

Either way we are in a bad situation right now. Let's see how things improve once SegWit transactions become more common. Also LN can't arrive soon enough.

I still see the spam problem and nobody was able to explain it to me yet.
If a majority of the transactions we see at the moment are spam, and segwit needs to be activated by the user, how will segwit help to decrease the mempool?
The guys who make the spam transactions will simply not activate segwit.
Or have I missed something?

HeRetiK

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Quote from: kryptqnick on August 25, 2017, 03:23:26 AM

Okay, but how to do the upgrade? At first after segwit I got this feeling that fee was reduced. I sent something which cost $150 at that time, payed something like 70 cents and got transaction confirmed within half an hour. But then about a week ago I wanted to send a small amount of money, worth $10, and had to pay $1 and something for the transaction! I remember that it has always been like that, if you send small sums - you pay more. But this is too much.
If I have a blockchain.info wallet, how can I upgrade to segwit transactions?

SegWit wasn't fully activated until yesterday, so that time you payed the lower fee was during a time of less transaction traffic. There was a timeframe of about 3-4 weeks between mid-Juli and mid-August were the network wasn't as congested as it is right now. That we are currently seeing hashrate oscillations between BTC and BCH doesn't help much either.

Either way we are in a bad situation right now. Let's see how things improve once SegWit transactions become more common. Also LN can't arrive soon enough.

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i am not a technical guy to understand tech developments but the question after bitcoin forked using segwit still we get high transaction fee . how that come ? specially from exchange.

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Quote from: HeRetiK on August 24, 2017, 10:14:45 AM

Quote from: Xavofat on August 24, 2017, 09:26:32 AM

To decrease the fees, you have to send SegWit transactions. Basically you need to move your funds to a SegWit-compatible wallet with the new type of address.

The transactions that you send would then be smaller and have lower fees.

If most of the major wallets start using SegWit transactions over the next few weeks, you can expect the blockchain to become less congested, so legacy transactions would cost less as well.

In addition to that, I'm not sure whether you're actually going to see an increase in blocksize, as the witness data is not part of the "official" blocksize anymore. You should however see an increase in transactions per block, once the amount of SegWit transactions increases.

Okay, but how to do the upgrade? At first after segwit I got this feeling that fee was reduced. I sent something which cost $150 at that time, payed something like 70 cents and got transaction confirmed within half an hour. But then about a week ago I wanted to send a small amount of money, worth $10, and had to pay $1 and something for the transaction! I remember that it has always been like that, if you send small sums - you pay more. But this is too much.
If I have a blockchain.info wallet, how can I upgrade to segwit transactions?

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So one has to send to new segwit addresses in order to use segwit? did not know anything about that.

If that is the case, it will surely happen slowly. Many people just will use their old-faithful address.

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Quote from: frankiestyles on August 24, 2017, 11:44:34 PM

Hi Guys,

In terms of transactions fees - I just sent a large transaction on the Bitcoin Cash network.

Transaction happened almost instantaneously, fee was only $0.02.

The same amount on the now activated Segwit Bitcoin network. Fee is = $6.90

This really concerns me. I really do hope Segwit resolves this issue soon. It could see a large amount people shift to BCC in a short amount of time.

segwit won't resolve this overnight, and more importantly, it can't solve the issue of spam. highly secured, distributed storage (in addition to transfer of value) comes with a cost, and demand is high. unfortunately, a lot of users have this mentality where they are like impatient kids in the back seat of the car screaming, "are we there yet?!"

it's sensible that people are being cautious about moving their inputs to segwit addresses. major wallet providers like electrum haven't released their segwit-compatible wallet yet. it will take time for segwit's capacity increase to be felt. more importantly, the one-time capacity increase isn't a fix for this congestion. we need layer 2 solutions like sidechains and LN for that.

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Most here, even with legendary accounts do not understand how things will work. Just creating fud. Nothing more.

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Hi Guys,

In terms of transactions fees - I just sent a large transaction on the Bitcoin Cash network.

Transaction happened almost instantaneously, fee was only $0.02.

The same amount on the now activated Segwit Bitcoin network. Fee is = $6.90

This really concerns me. I really do hope Segwit resolves this issue soon. It could see a large amount people shift to BCC in a short amount of time.

Topic: SEGWIT, where are the lower fees? (Read 1931 times)