Segwit2x vs 1 MB - page 3. | Bitcointalksearch.org

alyssa85

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Quote from: gentlemand on October 04, 2017, 04:56:37 PM

There's plenty of bravado out there, but if Corecoin really does get awarded the current signalling distribution then it's going to be borderline unusable and it'll stay that way unless they themselves hard fork into a different form. Then we have three coins as a few nutters might mine the original one.

Things are going to heat up rapidly between now and November, but I think most people are rational enough to know 2X is going to be a fuckup that's abandoned before it gets rolling.

It depends on the miners doesn't it? They haven't come out and said what they're going to do.

AtheistAKASaneBrain

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Quote from: gentlemand on October 04, 2017, 04:56:37 PM

There's plenty of bravado out there, but if Corecoin really does get awarded the current signalling distribution then it's going to be borderline unusable and it'll stay that way unless they themselves hard fork into a different form. Then we have three coins as a few nutters might mine the original one.

Things are going to heat up rapidly between now and November, but I think most people are rational enough to know 2X is going to be a fuckup that's abandoned before it gets rolling.

Don't be an idiot. This is not Corecoin vs Bizcoin, this is Bitcoin vs Bizcoin. If a conglomerate of corporations and miners bribed by US money takes over the development of bitcoin, how isn't bitcoin dead?

Don't be on the wrong side of history, this has nothing to do with Core, if you think otherwise you have some lurking to do.

talkbitcoin

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All I know is that I know nothing.

the best thing in times like this is to wait and see. you can not give any opinion right now.

i am not sure how this fork is going to be, but surely there will be some "signalling" period. by then everything will become crystal clear. you can see how much of the hashrate is supporting what and then you also look at how much of community is supporting what.
if a good high percentage was on one side (like SegWit vs BCH) the joke coin will be clear. if it is not a high percentage then you can't really decide, you will have to wait and see which chain survives and which chain has the higher price and utility.

but no matter what, it is best to claim the other coins to have the extra money. Grin

Denker

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Quote from: Odalv on October 04, 2017, 02:04:07 PM

What will you do if 80-90% of miners start mining > 1MB blocks ?
Will you ignore this chain and will be waiting 1-2 hours for 1 confirmation on original chain ?

If somebody makes bitcoin transaction then it apears on Segwit2x chain (bigger block, faster confirmation).
I think it takes hours(or days) to confirm on original chain.

Do I miss something ? (It will be not the same as with Bitcoin cash)

I will definitely not use this chain in any way. And trust me , the majority of users won't do either!
Miners don't make the rules! They will again learn a very hard lesson. The second one after UASF showed them where the real power is!!

AtheistAKASaneBrain

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What you have to do is wait and see. There are miners that will drop from the agreement because they know it's dangerous for them to try to do something as stupid as being traitors to bitcoin and supporting bizcoin aka segwit2x.

Segwit2x is going to get dumped, the price will crash, and miners will be back en masse to mine the most valuable coin (legacy Bitcoin). One does not simply bribe corporations and miners with fiat and then claim that is Bitcoin, because Bitcoin would be dead at that point. Good news is, hardforkers will be humiliated once again. The smartest thing to do is to dump hardforks immediately.

Lampaster

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It seems to me that any transactions at the time the fork will be risky. There are many ways and there is no one with a 100% guarantee. What makes you hurry? I support those who will pause until the situation is not clarified and the transaction will take place without problems. This situation will last a maximum of a few days. What's the problem to wait for this?

pooya87

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Quote from: Odalv on October 05, 2017, 05:27:08 AM

Quote from: pooya87 on October 05, 2017, 02:10:34 AM

faster chain will be on block 200 and slower will be on block 100 (examples).
you create a transaction on faster chain and set your locktime to 201 and also enable RBF (change the sequence to a smaller number) this tx can only be mined on block 201. the faster chain mines this. the slower chain needs to find 101 more blocks to be able to mine that transaction so you have a long time.

as soon as your tx was confirmed on faster chain you double spend it on the slower chain but this time send the coins to another address you own.

Looks good. Is there software what can create such transaction ?

bitcoin core and by extension any fork of it (including SegWit2x) will automatically add locktime based on last block height so you are goo there. but i am not sure how you mark the transactions as RBF in Core. i think you have to do it through command line!
but Electrum for example has RBF option in the preference which is as simple as checking a box. but it does not have option to change the locktime (i think they were planning on adding this in the new versions but i have not yet checked it).

Odalv

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Quote from: pooya87 on October 05, 2017, 02:10:34 AM

faster chain will be on block 200 and slower will be on block 100 (examples).
you create a transaction on faster chain and set your locktime to 201 and also enable RBF (change the sequence to a smaller number) this tx can only be mined on block 201. the faster chain mines this. the slower chain needs to find 101 more blocks to be able to mine that transaction so you have a long time.

as soon as your tx was confirmed on faster chain you double spend it on the slower chain but this time send the coins to another address you own.

Looks good. Is there software what can create such transaction ?

pooya87

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Quote from: Odalv on October 04, 2017, 02:04:07 PM

What will you do if 80-90% of miners start mining > 1MB blocks ?
Will you ignore this chain and will be waiting 1-2 hours for 1 confirmation on original chain ?

it will surely be A LOT longer than 1-2 hours for 1 confirmation if current chain works with 10-20% of hashrate and with the same number of daily transactions and even a possibility of spam attack!

Quote from: Odalv on October 04, 2017, 03:45:38 PM

~
> further special recipient address 3Bit1xA4apyzgmFNT2k8Pvnd6zb6TnwcTi to whom you send a few satoshis.
This address is valid on Segwit2x too (it will be replayed on 2x)

no it won't be replayed on 2x, it will be invalid and ignored on 2x chain.
but there are other ways of protecting against it which are also cheaper.

Quote from: d_eddie on October 04, 2017, 04:30:24 PM

2) Timelocked black magic? I'll be looking for some more info about this. Clues anyone?

faster chain will be on block 200 and slower will be on block 100 (examples).
you create a transaction on faster chain and set your locktime to 201 and also enable RBF (change the sequence to a smaller number) this tx can only be mined on block 201. the faster chain mines this. the slower chain needs to find 101 more blocks to be able to mine that transaction so you have a long time.

as soon as your tx was confirmed on faster chain you double spend it on the slower chain but this time send the coins to another address you own.

manchester93

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Quote from: Odalv on October 04, 2017, 02:04:07 PM

What will you do if 80-90% of miners start mining > 1MB blocks ?
Will you ignore this chain and will be waiting 1-2 hours for 1 confirmation on original chain ?

If somebody makes bitcoin transaction then it apears on Segwit2x chain (bigger block, faster confirmation).
I think it takes hours(or days) to confirm on original chain.

Do I miss something ? (It will be not the same as with Bitcoin cash)

I'll do nothing. That's the safest thing to do: refrain from making any transactions until you are confident that you can safely do so (without being replay attacked). The last thing you want to do is be one of those idiots choosing sides before listening to the market. That's just asking to lose money.

When the initial dust settles, I'll use the opt-in replay protection coded into Segwit2x to split my Segwit2x coins into a new wallet. Then I'll probably wait a few weeks/months to see how the market reacts before making any big decisions.

gentlemand

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Welt Am Draht

There's plenty of bravado out there, but if Corecoin really does get awarded the current signalling distribution then it's going to be borderline unusable and it'll stay that way unless they themselves hard fork into a different form. Then we have three coins as a few nutters might mine the original one.

Things are going to heat up rapidly between now and November, but I think most people are rational enough to know 2X is going to be a fuckup that's abandoned before it gets rolling.

d_eddie

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As I wrote elsewhere (the Wall Observer thread), I read about two ways to split:

1) Mix freshly mined coined into your transaction. Mined coins only exist on ONE chain, so you're safe your transaction ends up on that chain.

2) Timelocked black magic? I'll be looking for some more info about this. Clues anyone?

Odalv

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Quote from: fluidjax on October 04, 2017, 03:44:07 PM

Quote from: Odalv on October 04, 2017, 03:31:03 PM

Yes, it is good strategy.

>so few people will be buying 2x,

Nobody will be buying 2x, they will be buying BTC and those transactions will be replaying on 2x

Theres going to be opt-in replay protection.

To split your coins
On BTC chain you have some coins in address (A), you send your coins to another address you own (B), and include a further special recipient address 3Bit1xA4apyzgmFNT2k8Pvnd6zb6TnwcTi to whom you send a few satoshis.
Any transactions that contain this special address will be ignored by 2X miners.
Once this is successful, you will have your BTC in an address(B) you own.

Now you switch to the 2X chain, and send again from your first address (A), this time to a different addresses (C) you own this time omitting the special recipient address.

After this:
A is empty on both chains
B contains BTC coins
C contains 2X coins

(Always split to addresses you own, so if anything goes wrong, it shouldn't matter)
But I don't think I'll be bothering to split.

I'm tempted to make money on this. :-)
1. Move BTC2X to new address with 0 fee (will be never confirmed on original chain)
2. When BTC2X confirmed then move BTC to new address (include fee)
3. Sell BTC2X if somebody is willing to buy.

But your plan is safer :-) (but take more time, I think -> I assume, transaction on original chain take long time)

Edit:
> further special recipient address 3Bit1xA4apyzgmFNT2k8Pvnd6zb6TnwcTi to whom you send a few satoshis.
This address is valid on Segwit2x too (it will be replayed on 2x)

fluidjax

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Quote from: Odalv on October 04, 2017, 03:31:03 PM

Yes, it is good strategy.

>so few people will be buying 2x,

Nobody will be buying 2x, they will be buying BTC and those transactions will be replaying on 2x

Theres going to be opt-in replay protection.

To split your coins
On BTC chain you have some coins in address (A), you send your coins to another address you own (B), and include a further special recipient address 3Bit1xA4apyzgmFNT2k8Pvnd6zb6TnwcTi to whom you send a few satoshis.
Any transactions that contain this special address will be ignored by 2X miners.
Once this is successful, you will have your BTC in an address(B) you own.

Now you switch to the 2X chain, and send again from your first address (A), this time to a different addresses (C) you own this time omitting the special recipient address.

After this:
A is empty on both chains
B contains BTC coins
C contains 2X coins

(Always split to addresses you own, so if anything goes wrong, it shouldn't matter)
But I don't think I'll be bothering to split.

Odalv

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Quote from: fluidjax on October 04, 2017, 03:16:10 PM

Quote from: Odalv on October 04, 2017, 02:04:07 PM

What will you do if 80-90% of miners start mining > 1MB blocks ?
Will you ignore this chain and will be waiting 1-2 hours for 1 confirmation on original chain ?

If somebody makes bitcoin transaction then it apears on Segwit2x chain (bigger block, faster confirmation).
I think it takes hours(or days) to confirm on original chain.

Do I miss something ? (It will be not the same as with Bitcoin cash)

I plan not to use Bitcoin over the fork period. It costs me nothing to wait, so I will wait and wait some more, until the 2x attack runs out of money.
I believe the users don't want 2x, so few people will be buying 2x, the price will drop, and it won't be able to support the large amount of miners (80-90%) that ideologically want to mine it. So, to pay their electricity bills and realise the investment in hardware, a percentage will switch back to BTC.
The miners may have deep pockets, but they can't continue indefinitely. No doubt this will all drag on for a while, but like I said, I can wait, and they can't.

Yes, it is good strategy.

>so few people will be buying 2x,

Nobody will be buying 2x, they will be buying BTC and those transactions will be replaying on 2x

fluidjax

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Quote from: Odalv on October 04, 2017, 02:04:07 PM

What will you do if 80-90% of miners start mining > 1MB blocks ?
Will you ignore this chain and will be waiting 1-2 hours for 1 confirmation on original chain ?

If somebody makes bitcoin transaction then it apears on Segwit2x chain (bigger block, faster confirmation).
I think it takes hours(or days) to confirm on original chain.

Do I miss something ? (It will be not the same as with Bitcoin cash)

I plan not to use Bitcoin over the fork period. It costs me nothing to wait, so I will wait and wait some more, until the 2x attack runs out of money.
I believe the users don't want 2x, so few people will be buying 2x, the price will drop, and it won't be able to support the large amount of miners (80-90%) that ideologically want to mine it. So, to pay their electricity bills and realise the investment in hardware, a percentage will switch back to BTC.
The miners may have deep pockets, but they can't continue indefinitely. No doubt this will all drag on for a while, but like I said, I can wait, and they can't.

Odalv

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What will you do if 80-90% of miners start mining > 1MB blocks ?
Will you ignore this chain and will be waiting 1-2 hours for 1 confirmation on original chain ?

If somebody makes bitcoin transaction then it apears on Segwit2x chain (bigger block, faster confirmation).
I think it takes hours(or days) to confirm on original chain.

Do I miss something ? (It will be not the same as with Bitcoin cash)

Topic: Segwit2x vs 1 MB - page 3. (Read 1502 times)