Topic: Selling Bitcoins on eBay analysis (Read 8073 times)
I sell bitcoins on ebay for pay pal with near instant delivery. I have developed a method for selling that I believe works to catch and weed out scammers. It has been over 60 days on lots of my paypal transactions and haven't had significant charge backs. I am currently out of coins and dont have any active listings but you can see my feedback and completed listing on ebay my user name is northoutboards. Let me know your thoughts or suggestions. To me it is just about finding a way to sell with pay pal that works for everyone. With very limited risk.
Using pp debit cards is too sticky. You're getting into a sensitive area there because pp requires ssn to get debit cards. I'm not screwing with any ssn but my own. Of course, if it is your account, go for it. But if it is a burner account you have to get creative on how to cash out.
It's great if you have an unlimited ability to create new identities, get a PayPal debit card and eBay account for each one, go to an ATM and withdraw what you make from the eBay sales before the scammers can charge back their own personal funds that they did not obtain via criminal methods, and when they do, you just burn the ID and move on. Of course, that's probably 10 felonies to operate each separate identity just so you don't get scammed selling BTC via eBay/PayPal.
Why sell so much over the price? 40% is ridiculous you can probably make much more sales if you sell say 10% over price.
But why sell for 10% over when your customers (I use that term loosely when referring to ebay bitcoin buyers) are willing to pay 40%-50% over?
Personally I have hit my selling limit of $5000 in 2 days before. The scammers will buy regardless of price.
Why sell so much over the price? 40% is ridiculous you can probably make much more sales if you sell say 10% over price.
Most of you guys are missing the entire point of selling coins on ebay with pp.
Of course you will get chargebacks. Duh. It is about cashing out quickly. Period.
You have to make a decision before you begin to sell coins on ebay.
Ask yourself: How valuable are my ebay and pp accounts? Am I making money with them? Will I be using them in the future?
If your answers are no, fuck it. Go make a few thousands dollars, cash out and take your account limitations like a man.
Of course you will get chargebacks. Duh. It is about cashing out quickly. Period.
You have to make a decision before you begin to sell coins on ebay.
Ask yourself: How valuable are my ebay and pp accounts? Am I making money with them? Will I be using them in the future?
If your answers are no, fuck it. Go make a few thousands dollars, cash out and take your account limitations like a man.
Why not sell something that's cheap that has a bitcoin address on it? If you sell something like a blank CD with a bitcoin address as its front logo design it will cost you a buck maybe but you're still making $10-$15 over its value profit anyway.
Once you get a chargeback from Paypal payments, you have lost the case. Paypal sides with buyers, specially if you are selling a "service" or via electronic delivery. Also - re e-Bay, my chargebacks have been more from fraudulent creditcards than payment from current paypal accounts. So, my question is - how can you avoid (or know) if your paypal payment is via credit card or not. I will not use Paypal or e-Bay for BTC trades, too much hassle and to hoigh risk - no matter how much you try to secure the transaction.
How long does the buyer have in order to initiate a chargeback?
When we come up with the idea for LBAAT.net, I thought selling coins past any chargeback period would shift the favor to the sellers of BTC and away from the buyers. Got stuck with a chargeback? At least you can race to get the coins back.
"4-D" banking concept:
Seller can submit the private key to LBAAT, and it will move coins to a pre-determined address in case of a chargeback (same point in the future, just different address). This is set up before coins were offered for sale. This means the seller could scam freely, but shift the burden to buyer.
When we come up with the idea for LBAAT.net, I thought selling coins past any chargeback period would shift the favor to the sellers of BTC and away from the buyers. Got stuck with a chargeback? At least you can race to get the coins back.
"4-D" banking concept:
Seller can submit the private key to LBAAT, and it will move coins to a pre-determined address in case of a chargeback (same point in the future, just different address). This is set up before coins were offered for sale. This means the seller could scam freely, but shift the burden to buyer.
I made a ton selling coins on eBay, and got the money for them as well.
What I did was say "NO REFUNDS WHATSOEVER" in the description and in the Paypal info, and said the user needed to put their wallet address in the paypal comments. I also stated that there would be no refunds in any case, and there will be video proof of the transaction taking place, to prove the coins were sent to the address in the paypal checkout. I sold like thousands of dollars worth of coins, listed at $20-25+ each (back in july 2011) and scammers would buy them up like $500 at a time.
The scammers would do a reversal on the transaction in a systematic fashion, and since I used Freez Screen Video Capture to make videos of myself transferring the coins to the person's wallet that they entered in the paypal reciept (which was open and evident in the video), it served as solid proof. Paypal returned 100% of the money to me, with the exception of one small transaction where the person did a reversal on their credit card.. Paypal couldn't help that.
When you do a transaction dispute, and they look at the video, there is no denying it.
I paid for ALL my mining equipment with the coins that I sold to would-be scammers on eBay last summer!
eBay has since changed its policies quite a bit, I don't think it's safe to sell coins there anymore unless they were casascius, a "bitcoin cheque", or a private key on a piece of paper that you can physically mail to them and get a tracking number, since that is allowed.
What I did was say "NO REFUNDS WHATSOEVER" in the description and in the Paypal info, and said the user needed to put their wallet address in the paypal comments. I also stated that there would be no refunds in any case, and there will be video proof of the transaction taking place, to prove the coins were sent to the address in the paypal checkout. I sold like thousands of dollars worth of coins, listed at $20-25+ each (back in july 2011) and scammers would buy them up like $500 at a time.
The scammers would do a reversal on the transaction in a systematic fashion, and since I used Freez Screen Video Capture to make videos of myself transferring the coins to the person's wallet that they entered in the paypal reciept (which was open and evident in the video), it served as solid proof. Paypal returned 100% of the money to me, with the exception of one small transaction where the person did a reversal on their credit card.. Paypal couldn't help that.
When you do a transaction dispute, and they look at the video, there is no denying it.
I paid for ALL my mining equipment with the coins that I sold to would-be scammers on eBay last summer!
eBay has since changed its policies quite a bit, I don't think it's safe to sell coins there anymore unless they were casascius, a "bitcoin cheque", or a private key on a piece of paper that you can physically mail to them and get a tracking number, since that is allowed.
I'm sure you believe this and perhaps you've had really good luck but I think it's important to people who are new to selling coins on eBay to know that this entire post is utter bullshit.
Unless you have a tracking number from the shipping forms used on PayPal you're fucked. And then you still might be fucked. I've been selling on eBay for well over a year now. My mistakes and the mistakes made by others have shown me that you need to ship a physical product, you need to use the paypal shipping interface, and you need to be very very very very wary...
If you come to a ebay/paypal dispute with a screenshot or a video, they're going to laugh at you.
Ship paper coins, or metal coins. You'll still get scammed but less often.
People like this make me sick.
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&ftab=AllFeedback&userid=maryeebat5916&iid=-1&de=off&items=25&interval=0&mPg=2&page=1
Person also bought from me when she had 0 feedback so I refunded it.
I have no doubt all 29 transactions will be chargebacked. So far this buyer has bought all non-refundable gift cards, certificates and BTC. And sellers can't leave negative for buyers anymore. Who buys a gift certificate for twice the face value?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/110910869210 $50 Amazon Gift card for $102.50 and another auction 1 BTC for $25
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&ftab=AllFeedback&userid=maryeebat5916&iid=-1&de=off&items=25&interval=0&mPg=2&page=1
Person also bought from me when she had 0 feedback so I refunded it.
I have no doubt all 29 transactions will be chargebacked. So far this buyer has bought all non-refundable gift cards, certificates and BTC. And sellers can't leave negative for buyers anymore. Who buys a gift certificate for twice the face value?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/110910869210 $50 Amazon Gift card for $102.50 and another auction 1 BTC for $25
Potential stupid question: Would it be safer to sell a PDF with a private key on it, rather than "sending" coins? Is digital delivered content harder for a chargeback?
if I were you i'd put the private key on a piece of paper and mail it to him.. but that's just my opinion.Like it really matters?
I got suspended for selling paperclips with free bitcoins 2 days ago, and yes i sent the damn clips with a tracking number. They want all kind of documents to re-enable my account. I had only positive votes with them but the fees are killing me so i think i will pass doing something about it. They will get to know bitcoin in the end.
Potential stupid question: Would it be safer to sell a PDF with a private key on it, rather than "sending" coins? Is digital delivered content harder for a chargeback?
if I were you i'd put the private key on a piece of paper and mail it to him.. but that's just my opinion. Potential stupid question: Would it be safer to sell a PDF with a private key on it, rather than "sending" coins? Is digital delivered content harder for a chargeback?
There are no stupid questions when it comes to this matter. Just people passing misinformation.
Imagine an arbitrator with no intangible goods background having to resolve a dispute between you and the scammer. I suppose if the argument was the PDF wasn't received you may have a chance to win that if you can prove it was sent. But if the dispute was the PDF had the incorrect info then your chances to winning are slim.
Basically if you get in situation that you're dealing with a chargeback, you've most likely already lost. Your efforts should be concentrated on prevention.
Potential stupid question: Would it be safer to sell a PDF with a private key on it, rather than "sending" coins? Is digital delivered content harder for a chargeback?
The Ebay fees from the scammers bidding on my auction are killing me.
There's only 2 ways to get back your final value fee.
1. The buyer agrees to return it which isn't going to happen.
2. eBay investigates and finds the buyer at fault. Then refunds you. This won't happen unless there are enough complaints.
So is there a way to make sure no US residents or better yet make it so no one can bid on your auctions?
I was tweaking around with changing my item location or opening an international location, but I'm thinking of just selling less than 0.1 BTC to keep the bids low and maybe private auction for those buying more than 0.1 BTC.
Edit: Looks like it might take 7-10 days after closing a deadbeat bidder case to get a refund. I'll let you guys know the results.
There's only 2 ways to get back your final value fee.
1. The buyer agrees to return it which isn't going to happen.
2. eBay investigates and finds the buyer at fault. Then refunds you. This won't happen unless there are enough complaints.
So is there a way to make sure no US residents or better yet make it so no one can bid on your auctions?
I was tweaking around with changing my item location or opening an international location, but I'm thinking of just selling less than 0.1 BTC to keep the bids low and maybe private auction for those buying more than 0.1 BTC.
Edit: Looks like it might take 7-10 days after closing a deadbeat bidder case to get a refund. I'll let you guys know the results.
But you can give Paypal a tracking number if there is a dispute and you can prove the item was shipped, it doesn't really matter the condition of the contents as long as they are clearly stated in the description.
Like I said before, I'm more afraid of a chargeback rather than a "normal" PayPal dispute. In general, the credit card will side with the buyer if they don't have a good idea what's going on. It's extremely difficult to prove what you stated in the description is actually what you shipped to a credit card transaction dispute. So to me, shipping a physical item is moot. I only use it to satisfy eBay's no intangible goods auction policy.
*snip*
The scammers would do a reversal on the transaction in a systematic fashion, and since I used Freez Screen Video Capture to make videos of myself transferring the coins to the person's wallet that they entered in the paypal reciept (which was open and evident in the video), it served as solid proof. Paypal returned 100% of the money to me, with the exception of one small transaction where the person did a reversal on their credit card.. Paypal couldn't help that.
When you do a transaction dispute, and they look at the video, there is no denying it.
I paid for ALL my mining equipment with the coins that I sold to would-be scammers on eBay last summer!
eBay has since changed its policies quite a bit, I don't think it's safe to sell coins there anymore unless they were casascius, a "bitcoin cheque", or a private key on a piece of paper that you can physically mail to them and get a tracking number, since that is allowed.
In my experience, PayPal will side with the seller in terms of intangibles as I'ved stated before unless it's an unauthorized dispute. I'm not really sure how effective your proof was a result of my previous statement. Credit cards will side with buyers and they override PayPal's decision.
Physical delivery of anything isn't safe either since there's almost no way to show the actual contents delivered are the correct contents.
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