The next few months are going to be very interesting...
Topic: Senator Charles Schumer Pushes to Shut Down Online Drug Marketplace - page 9. (Read 25490 times)
June 06, 2011, 10:18:28 AM
The next few months are going to be very interesting...
June 06, 2011, 10:09:31 AM
urthermore, I don't think any of us would mind helping law enforcement or in fact anyone to help and find real criminals behind real crimes. Bitcoin is not anonymous - you have to go to great lengths to make it such.
Exactly right. I will to do what I can to help the police catch scammers and crooks who want to steal from people. The police might use those same tools and techniques to help catch people who use bitcoin to pay for drugs; I can't stop them from doing that.I personally don't think drugs or gambling should be illegal, because I believe you should be free to do whatever you like with your own body and your own money. But I also believe those are separate issues from bitcoin, and if I felt really strongly about it (it isn't one of my own personal hot-button issues) I would be donating money to, or volunteering to work for LEAP and NORML, not mixing "bitcoin is a great new technology" with "drugs should be legal."
And please do tell who gets to decide what a real crime is? Murder? Drugs? Money laundering? Tax evasion? Using illegal currencies?
You should definitely help those police catch people using illegal currencies. After all that is domestic terrorism: http://www.foxbusiness.com/on-air/stossel/blog/2011/03/22/starting-a-new-currency-is-%E2%80%9Cdomestic-terrorism%E2%80%9D .
June 06, 2011, 10:02:20 AM
You might even offer to help law enforcement better understand bitcoin so they can develop tools and techniques to catch criminals who use it.
Best rebuttal:
And when governments world-wide make bitcoin illegal because of the threat it represents to central banking, will your head explode from the irony?
Exactly.
June 06, 2011, 09:56:31 AM
You might even offer to help law enforcement better understand bitcoin so they can develop tools and techniques to catch criminals who use it.
Best rebuttal:
And when governments world-wide make bitcoin illegal because of the threat it represents to central banking, will your head explode from the irony?
June 06, 2011, 09:55:08 AM
urthermore, I don't think any of us would mind helping law enforcement or in fact anyone to help and find real criminals behind real crimes. Bitcoin is not anonymous - you have to go to great lengths to make it such.
Exactly right. I will to do what I can to help the police catch scammers and crooks who want to steal from people. The police might use those same tools and techniques to help catch people who use bitcoin to pay for drugs; I can't stop them from doing that.I personally don't think drugs or gambling should be illegal, because I believe you should be free to do whatever you like with your own body and your own money. But I also believe those are separate issues from bitcoin, and if I felt really strongly about it (it isn't one of my own personal hot-button issues) I would be donating money to, or volunteering to work for LEAP and NORML, not mixing "bitcoin is a great new technology" with "drugs should be legal."
June 06, 2011, 09:49:09 AM
Obviously with enough time, manpower, and resources, it is possible for a government to track down anyone doing anything.
Let's round up everyone thinking of the color blue.
June 06, 2011, 09:41:31 AM
"They use names that you can't trace, they don't put their names on the site."
I lol'd.
I lol'd.
June 06, 2011, 09:21:39 AM
Ian:
Great letter! I agree that the "stop campaigning for bitcoin's destruction" message might backfire, and the message should be "we're an innocent bystander here." You might even offer to help law enforcement better understand bitcoin so they can develop tools and techniques to catch criminals who use it.
Great letter! I agree that the "stop campaigning for bitcoin's destruction" message might backfire, and the message should be "we're an innocent bystander here." You might even offer to help law enforcement better understand bitcoin so they can develop tools and techniques to catch criminals who use it.
If you're stance is seriously to encourage "help[ing] law enforcement better understand bitcoin so they can develop tools and techniques to catch criminals who use it.", then you are a threat to the idea of bitcoin. How can I have any confidence at all that you are not attempting to put some sort of backdoors into the client to monitor and track people who use bitcoin?
I don't think that is what Gavin meant, because education works both ways. For instance, you can point out the ridiculousness of relying on the bitcoin block explorer because bitcoin (private keys) can be exchanged offline on USB sticks or BitBills. Also, education on 'remailer' and 'mixers' would demonstrate to law enforcement that it is impractical to rely on the block chain.
That's a fair point. If the intent is to stop the po po from picking up the wrong guy due to misunderstanding how bitcoin works, I could see that. Perhaps it's just how I read it the first time, that it seemed a little too friendly to law enforcement.
June 06, 2011, 09:19:32 AM
Quote from: matonis
Not true...people use these all the time to buy groceries and to go on vacation, restaurants, etc. http://bit.ly/k3rDSO
ie:Bitcoin will succeed because it's just like cash
June 06, 2011, 09:18:56 AM
ie: mostly illegal activity
The point of bitcoin is to have freedom from a central authority. Regardless of how that is used, that is it's main advantage. If you don't have that, then you might as well continue using government issued currencies or silver and gold, because BTC doesn't offer any other significant advantages that I am aware of.
June 06, 2011, 09:16:50 AM
ie: mostly illegal activity
The point of bitcoin is to have freedom from a central authority. Regardless of how that is used, that is it's main advantage. If you don't have that, then you might as well continue using government issued currencies or silver and gold, because BTC doesn't offer any other significant advantages that I am aware of.
June 06, 2011, 09:11:51 AM
Ian:
Great letter! I agree that the "stop campaigning for bitcoin's destruction" message might backfire, and the message should be "we're an innocent bystander here." You might even offer to help law enforcement better understand bitcoin so they can develop tools and techniques to catch criminals who use it.
Great letter! I agree that the "stop campaigning for bitcoin's destruction" message might backfire, and the message should be "we're an innocent bystander here." You might even offer to help law enforcement better understand bitcoin so they can develop tools and techniques to catch criminals who use it.
If you're stance is seriously to encourage "help[ing] law enforcement better understand bitcoin so they can develop tools and techniques to catch criminals who use it.", then you are a threat to the idea of bitcoin. How can I have any confidence at all that you are not attempting to put some sort of backdoors into the client to monitor and track people who use bitcoin?
I don't think that is what Gavin meant, because education works both ways. For instance, you can point out the ridiculousness of relying on the bitcoin block explorer because bitcoin (private keys) can be exchanged offline on USB sticks or BitBills. Also, education on 'remailer' and 'mixers' would demonstrate to law enforcement that it is impractical to rely on the block chain.
Furthermore, I don't think any of us would mind helping law enforcement or in fact anyone to help and find real criminals behind real crimes. Bitcoin is not anonymous - you have to go to great lengths to make it such. Now power to decide who gets caught and who doesn't is tilting to the rightful owner - honest and rational people. Not some bribed politicians or criminals on wallstreet.
Intel community is very good at catching real criminals and there are numerous examples of it
June 06, 2011, 09:09:47 AM
I agree. If bitcoins only purpose/advantage is as an inflation-hedge, there are numerous things that would serve that function. The major differentiator, in fact the only differentiator that will have a significant impact on economic growth and taxation policy, is bitcoin's potential for user-determined anonymity and untracability.
ie: mostly illegal activity
Not true...people use these all the time to buy groceries and to go on vacation, restaurants, etc. http://bit.ly/k3rDSO
June 06, 2011, 08:56:11 AM
I agree. If bitcoins only purpose/advantage is as an inflation-hedge, there are numerous things that would serve that function. The major differentiator, in fact the only differentiator that will have a significant impact on economic growth and taxation policy, is bitcoin's potential for user-determined anonymity and untracability.
ie: mostly illegal activity
June 06, 2011, 08:55:56 AM
Ian:
Great letter! I agree that the "stop campaigning for bitcoin's destruction" message might backfire, and the message should be "we're an innocent bystander here." You might even offer to help law enforcement better understand bitcoin so they can develop tools and techniques to catch criminals who use it.
Great letter! I agree that the "stop campaigning for bitcoin's destruction" message might backfire, and the message should be "we're an innocent bystander here." You might even offer to help law enforcement better understand bitcoin so they can develop tools and techniques to catch criminals who use it.
If you're stance is seriously to encourage "help[ing] law enforcement better understand bitcoin so they can develop tools and techniques to catch criminals who use it.", then you are a threat to the idea of bitcoin. How can I have any confidence at all that you are not attempting to put some sort of backdoors into the client to monitor and track people who use bitcoin?
I don't think that is what Gavin meant, because education works both ways. For instance, you can point out the ridiculousness of relying on the bitcoin block explorer because bitcoin (private keys) can be exchanged offline on USB sticks or BitBills. Also, education on 'remailer' and 'mixers' would demonstrate to law enforcement that it is impractical to rely on the block chain.
June 06, 2011, 08:54:14 AM
This should come as no surprise due to the very public nature of silk road.
You mess with the bull you get the horns.
You mess with the bull you get the horns.
June 06, 2011, 08:51:29 AM
If they (a government, large organization, etc) can "prevent selected individuals from spending their bitcoins" as well as track transactions they disapprove of, then what advantage does bitcoin provide except a hedge against inflation?
I agree. If bitcoins only purpose/advantage is as an inflation-hedge, there are numerous things that would serve that function. The major differentiator, in fact the only differentiator that will have a significant impact on economic growth and taxation policy, is bitcoin's potential for user-determined anonymity and untracability.
June 06, 2011, 08:36:06 AM
Ian:
Great letter! I agree that the "stop campaigning for bitcoin's destruction" message might backfire, and the message should be "we're an innocent bystander here." You might even offer to help law enforcement better understand bitcoin so they can develop tools and techniques to catch criminals who use it.
I've been thinking of how to react to this story, and am tempted to appeal to people's greed/fear with a message of "your country may miss out on a huge new opportunity and be left behind if you try to stamp out innovative new technologies like bitcoin."
Great letter! I agree that the "stop campaigning for bitcoin's destruction" message might backfire, and the message should be "we're an innocent bystander here." You might even offer to help law enforcement better understand bitcoin so they can develop tools and techniques to catch criminals who use it.
I've been thinking of how to react to this story, and am tempted to appeal to people's greed/fear with a message of "your country may miss out on a huge new opportunity and be left behind if you try to stamp out innovative new technologies like bitcoin."
If you're stance is seriously to encourage "help[ing] law enforcement better understand bitcoin so they can develop tools and techniques to catch criminals who use it.", then you are a threat to the idea of bitcoin. How can I have any confidence at all that you are not attempting to put some sort of backdoors into the client to monitor and track people who use bitcoin?
June 06, 2011, 07:55:05 AM
I like the idea of offering campaign contribution in bitcoins (if it were legal)
Very difficult to say no to money, one thing all politicians have in common
I would imagine it's difficult to find a candidate that does not have traditional banking friends in high places though.
Very difficult to say no to money, one thing all politicians have in common
I would imagine it's difficult to find a candidate that does not have traditional banking friends in high places though.
Campaign contributions could be made completely anonymously with bitcoin.
Perhaps this is what has got the senator excited with the possibilities?
Oh yeah, you brought up exactly why it might be a problem legally. Thanks.
Maybe you'd have to sign a waiver saying that was your address and your BTC you just sent. Even then I don't know how you would verify that.
June 06, 2011, 07:52:13 AM
I like the idea of offering campaign contribution in bitcoins (if it were legal)
Very difficult to say no to money, one thing all politicians have in common
I would imagine it's difficult to find a candidate that does not have traditional banking friends in high places though.
Very difficult to say no to money, one thing all politicians have in common
I would imagine it's difficult to find a candidate that does not have traditional banking friends in high places though.
Campaign contributions could be made completely anonymously with bitcoin.
Perhaps this is what has got the senator excited with the possibilities?
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