Send full amount as a fee to miners | Bitcointalksearch.org

tspacepilot

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Quote from: amaclin on September 01, 2015, 03:05:30 PM

Quote from: tspacepilot on September 01, 2015, 02:56:47 PM

What's the correct understanding of "valid" here?

Valid = the redeem transaction can be included in blockchain
But.
It is impossible to create such scriptSig, because OP_RETURN in scripPubkey will always fail the execution.
So, this is provable unspendable output.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Script#Provably_Unspendable.2FPrunable_Outputs

Got it. And thanks for the pointer to the bottom of that page, I had overlooked that. I think this also answers OP's question pretty definitively.

amaclin

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Quote from: tspacepilot on September 01, 2015, 02:56:47 PM

What's the correct understanding of "valid" here?

Valid = the redeem transaction can be included in blockchain
But.
It is impossible to create such scriptSig, because OP_RETURN in scripPubkey will always fail the execution.
So, this is provable unspendable output.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Script#Provably_Unspendable.2FPrunable_Outputs

tspacepilot

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Quote from: amaclin on September 01, 2015, 10:47:50 AM

Quote from: tspacepilot on September 01, 2015, 10:30:57 AM

So the one output would have a value of 0 Satoshis and the script part would just be OP_RETURN + 40 bytes of data?
If this is the preferred dust cleanup transaction I'm happy to know it.

Yes. You are not forced to add 40 bytes of data.
The one-byte-output-script OP_RETURN and zero amount to it will send all your inputs to miner
for example:
https://blockchain.info/tx/3d665c1eb25160444cf053988a0d7d0c3ec5e68e3897a917d59447052788cfc5
note, that blockchain.info can not decode this output script to address and shows message "Unable to decode output address - (Unspent)"

I do not know what client is able to create such transactions.
It is quite easy, but I use my own tools.

One follow-up, according to the OP codes listed here https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Script, it seems that OP_RETURN:

Quote

Marks transaction as invalid. A standard way of attaching extra data to transactions is to add a zero-value output with a scriptPubKey consisting of OP_RETURN followed by exactly one pushdata op. Such outputs are provably unspendable, reducing their cost to the network. Currently it is usually considered non-standard (though valid) for a transaction to have more than one OP_RETURN output or an OP_RETURN output with more than one pushdata op

This is a little confusing because "valid" seems to be being used more than one way in the same paragraph. I guess this isn't the kind of marking invalid which would cause a node not to relay the transaction? What's the correct understanding of "valid" here?

newIndia

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Quote from: Wapinter on August 31, 2015, 02:55:01 PM

Quote from: SquallLeonhart on August 31, 2015, 02:38:12 PM

Quote from: Wapinter on August 31, 2015, 02:23:40 PM

Quote from: Shawshank on August 31, 2015, 01:19:28 PM

I want to send some dust amount to miners directly, without using a Bitcoin address as a destination.

Is there a script around there that I can use? It seems Bitcoin Core does not allow to do this.

Why sending it to miners they are already earning bitcoins.Give it away to newbies like me Cheesy

because miners are who keep the network secure with mining and supporting the network not newbies like you, they are doing hard work and investing money and you want free money

I appreciate what they are doing but they aren't doing it for nothing. They do get their share in bitcoin. Mining is not a social work if you can't help a newbie like me,atleast spend it for some good cause

A better cause to spend would be donating to nodes. In fact, nodes provide the first layer of security to bitcoin network, but they get nothing directly in return.

amaclin

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Quote from: tspacepilot on September 01, 2015, 10:30:57 AM

So the one output would have a value of 0 Satoshis and the script part would just be OP_RETURN + 40 bytes of data?
If this is the preferred dust cleanup transaction I'm happy to know it.

Yes. You are not forced to add 40 bytes of data.
The one-byte-output-script OP_RETURN and zero amount to it will send all your inputs to miner
for example:
https://blockchain.info/tx/3d665c1eb25160444cf053988a0d7d0c3ec5e68e3897a917d59447052788cfc5
note, that blockchain.info can not decode this output script to address and shows message "Unable to decode output address - (Unspent)"

I do not know what client is able to create such transactions.
It is quite easy, but I use my own tools.

tspacepilot

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I may write code in exchange for bitcoins.

Quote from: amaclin on September 01, 2015, 07:41:47 AM

Quote from: tspacepilot on September 01, 2015, 01:02:55 AM

It may be better instead to make a transactions without any outputs (is this legal)?

No. Transaction must contain at least one output.
But it is possible to use OP_RETURN output which sends all inputs to miner fees

So the one output would have a value of 0 Satoshis and the script part would just be OP_RETURN + 40 bytes of data?

If this is the preferred dust cleanup transaction I'm happy to know it.

amaclin

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Quote from: Shawshank on September 01, 2015, 08:22:51 AM

Another option is to send it to a provable unspendable address. For example:
https://blockchain.info/address/1111111111111111111114oLvT2
I suppose that in the future the UTXO associated to this kind of addresses will be ignored by miners.

You are twice wrong.
1) This address is not provable unspendable. It is spendable.
But no one claimed that he knows the private key for it.

2) Miners can not take funds which were sent to this address to their fees.
And they can not take any funds from any provable unspendable outputs to fees.
The funds sent to provable unspendable outputs are gone to nobody.

Shawshank

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Quote from: amaclin on September 01, 2015, 07:41:47 AM

But it is possible to use OP_RETURN output which sends all inputs to miner fees

Yep. That is one possibility.

Another option is to send it to a provable unspendable address. For example: https://blockchain.info/address/1111111111111111111114oLvT2 I suppose that in the future the UTXO associated to this kind of addresses will be ignored by miners.

Quote from: AmDD on September 01, 2015, 08:02:59 AM

Couldnt you just hang onto the dust until you need to make a legit transaction, say to pay hosting or whatever for your service, and then just add the dust as the fee for that transaction? This will prevent the single satoshi to a random address issue and still send dust to the miners.

Not for hosting or any other service.

For accountability purposes I need to guarantee that there is no association whatsoever between the sender and the receiver of those funds. Valid destinations may be: full amount sent to miners in a publicly broadcast transaction, a few respected well-known charities or a provable unspendable address like the one specified above.

achow101

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Quote from: AmDD on September 01, 2015, 08:02:59 AM

Quote from: tspacepilot on September 01, 2015, 01:02:55 AM

Quote from: CasioK on August 31, 2015, 01:44:46 PM

you can send one 0.000001 btc to any address and change the fees amount to the amount that you want to send to the miners
like send 0.0000001 btc to someone random btc address with 0.50btc as fees, and miner gets the fees

But this is problmatic because the 1 satoshi ends up in the UTXO set so instead of cleaning up the dust, you're making even smaller dust and sending it to someone else.

It may be better instead to make a transactions without any outputs (is this legal)? If the point is to clean up dust, you definitely want to figure out how to create something which actually acheives this.

Couldnt you just hang onto the dust until you need to make a legit transaction, say to pay hosting or whatever for your service, and then just add the dust as the fee for that transaction? This will prevent the single satoshi to a random address issue and still send dust to the miners.

all of those dusty outputs would inflate the size of the transaction and require a large fee to send that the dusty may not be able to cover.

The best way would be to use OP_RETURN to not create any outputs.

AmDD

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Quote from: tspacepilot on September 01, 2015, 01:02:55 AM

Quote from: CasioK on August 31, 2015, 01:44:46 PM

you can send one 0.000001 btc to any address and change the fees amount to the amount that you want to send to the miners
like send 0.0000001 btc to someone random btc address with 0.50btc as fees, and miner gets the fees

But this is problmatic because the 1 satoshi ends up in the UTXO set so instead of cleaning up the dust, you're making even smaller dust and sending it to someone else.

It may be better instead to make a transactions without any outputs (is this legal)? If the point is to clean up dust, you definitely want to figure out how to create something which actually acheives this.

Couldnt you just hang onto the dust until you need to make a legit transaction, say to pay hosting or whatever for your service, and then just add the dust as the fee for that transaction? This will prevent the single satoshi to a random address issue and still send dust to the miners.

amaclin

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Quote from: tspacepilot on September 01, 2015, 01:02:55 AM

It may be better instead to make a transactions without any outputs (is this legal)?

No. Transaction must contain at least one output.
But it is possible to use OP_RETURN output which sends all inputs to miner fees

hexafraction

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Quote from: tspacepilot on September 01, 2015, 01:02:55 AM

Quote from: CasioK on August 31, 2015, 01:44:46 PM

you can send one 0.000001 btc to any address and change the fees amount to the amount that you want to send to the miners
like send 0.0000001 btc to someone random btc address with 0.50btc as fees, and miner gets the fees

But this is problmatic because the 1 satoshi ends up in the UTXO set so instead of cleaning up the dust, you're making even smaller dust and sending it to someone else.

It may be better instead to make a transactions without any outputs (is this legal)? If the point is to clean up dust, you definitely want to figure out how to create something which actually acheives this.

An OP_RETURN script would be legal, and it would additionally allow a short explanation of any info you want to provide (such as who you are, reasoning). 40 bytes is enough for a url shortener or pastebin link.

amaclin

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Quote from: Shawshank on August 31, 2015, 01:19:28 PM

I want to send some dust amount to miners directly, without using a Bitcoin address as a destination.

Is there a script around there that I can use? It seems Bitcoin Core does not allow to do this.

I can write such program for you.
It is not too difficult.
But I program in C++ not in python/other script languages

What kind of program do you want? Should it send all outputs less than some dust limit to miners?

Shawshank

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Quote from: dserrano5 on August 31, 2015, 01:41:01 PM

There was a thing by Peter Todd, IIRC, called dust-b-gone. Get rid of the dust by donating it to miners.

Thanks. I have had a look at it. The problem is that it uses a centralized server and it still creates a transaction with an ouput with a value greater than zero.

Quote from: Wapinter on August 31, 2015, 02:23:40 PM

Why sending it to miners they are already earning bitcoins.Give it away to newbies like me Cheesy

Ha ha ha. Sorry, but I need to send the dust directly to miners to guarantee traceability and transpareny for my app. In case you want to know: https://xparent.com/app

Quote from: tspacepilot on September 01, 2015, 01:02:55 AM

It may be better instead to make a transactions without any outputs (is this legal)? If the point is to clean up dust, you definitely want to figure out how to create something which actually acheives this.

I just found out that transactions with a single output with a value of zero satoshis are not standard, and are not relayed by Bitcoin Core, even though they are considered valid if they make it to a block. I will need to find a better solution. Sad

Sapholard

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instead of that may be you could use for any development or invest in a team and then donate that biggger profits

tspacepilot

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I may write code in exchange for bitcoins.

Quote from: CasioK on August 31, 2015, 01:44:46 PM

you can send one 0.000001 btc to any address and change the fees amount to the amount that you want to send to the miners
like send 0.0000001 btc to someone random btc address with 0.50btc as fees, and miner gets the fees

But this is problmatic because the 1 satoshi ends up in the UTXO set so instead of cleaning up the dust, you're making even smaller dust and sending it to someone else.

It may be better instead to make a transactions without any outputs (is this legal)? If the point is to clean up dust, you definitely want to figure out how to create something which actually acheives this.

Wapinter

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Quote from: SquallLeonhart on August 31, 2015, 02:38:12 PM

Quote from: Wapinter on August 31, 2015, 02:23:40 PM

Quote from: Shawshank on August 31, 2015, 01:19:28 PM

I want to send some dust amount to miners directly, without using a Bitcoin address as a destination.

Is there a script around there that I can use? It seems Bitcoin Core does not allow to do this.

Why sending it to miners they are already earning bitcoins.Give it away to newbies like me Cheesy

because miners are who keep the network secure with mining and supporting the network not newbies like you, they are doing hard work and investing money and you want free money

I appreciate what they are doing but they aren't doing it for nothing. They do get their share in bitcoin. Mining is not a social work if you can't help a newbie like me,atleast spend it for some good cause

SquallLeonhart

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Activity: 2464

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Quote from: Wapinter on August 31, 2015, 02:23:40 PM

Quote from: Shawshank on August 31, 2015, 01:19:28 PM

I want to send some dust amount to miners directly, without using a Bitcoin address as a destination.

Is there a script around there that I can use? It seems Bitcoin Core does not allow to do this.

Why sending it to miners they are already earning bitcoins.Give it away to newbies like me Cheesy

because miners are who keep the network secure with mining and supporting the network not newbies like you, they are doing hard work and investing money and you want free money

Wapinter

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Activity: 2688

Merit: 1026

Hire me for Bounty Management

Quote from: Shawshank on August 31, 2015, 01:19:28 PM

I want to send some dust amount to miners directly, without using a Bitcoin address as a destination.

Is there a script around there that I can use? It seems Bitcoin Core does not allow to do this.

Why sending it to miners they are already earning bitcoins.Give it away to newbies like me Cheesy

pr0d1gy

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Good guy OP, that's how you bitcoin, I'm sure you'll make a random miner happy... or confused... Grin

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