Sensitive market at this moment. - page 2.

bitcoinmaniac52

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Quote from: dejavvu on July 25, 2017, 07:41:57 PM

Quote from: stadus on July 25, 2017, 07:21:49 PM

Quote from: dejavvu on July 25, 2017, 06:57:43 PM

In my opinion all altcoins are a bubble created to make easy money off greedy people. While some of them offer some good things on paper(like contracts in Eth), the main purpose is to pump and dump. This crypto business is still in its infancy and so many things are going to change and so many people are going get crashed during this process.

Not all altcoins, what is the basis of your statement, check on the top 5 markets of altcoins especially the Ethereum
who were able to compete with bitcoins in terms of marketcap. Ethereum is the most traded altcoins in the market nowadays
and some experts believe it will overtake bitcoin in the future in terms of profitability.

Read my reply again, I said "some of them offer some good things on paper(like contracts in Eth)" but again this does not change the fact that everybody wants to jump on the wagon created by Bitcoin. Pretty much every alt coin promises something that Bitcoin doesn't have. That's their selling point after all. The thing is though do we really need those things they promise? I'm not against Eth btw, I'm following it closely.

I also don't think marketcap is a good metric for coin strength.

I wonder if a coin will come along that offers everything all of the altcoins do, and more. Think about early social media such as MySpace. Clearly it was missing something or it would still be around... and now we have Facebook. Eventually a coin might appear with far more features and ease-of-use then BTC and everyone will jump ship just like Facebook.

dejavvu

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Quote from: stadus on July 25, 2017, 07:21:49 PM

Quote from: dejavvu on July 25, 2017, 06:57:43 PM

In my opinion all altcoins are a bubble created to make easy money off greedy people. While some of them offer some good things on paper(like contracts in Eth), the main purpose is to pump and dump. This crypto business is still in its infancy and so many things are going to change and so many people are going get crashed during this process.

Not all altcoins, what is the basis of your statement, check on the top 5 markets of altcoins especially the Ethereum
who were able to compete with bitcoins in terms of marketcap. Ethereum is the most traded altcoins in the market nowadays
and some experts believe it will overtake bitcoin in the future in terms of profitability.

Read my reply again, I said "some of them offer some good things on paper(like contracts in Eth)" but again this does not change the fact that everybody wants to jump on the wagon created by Bitcoin. Pretty much every alt coin promises something that Bitcoin doesn't have. That's their selling point after all. The thing is though do we really need those things they promise? I'm not against Eth btw, I'm following it closely.

I also don't think marketcap is a good metric for coin strength.

john2231

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Quote from: stadus on July 25, 2017, 07:21:49 PM

Quote from: dejavvu on July 25, 2017, 06:57:43 PM

In my opinion all altcoins are a bubble created to make easy money off greedy people. While some of them offer some good things on paper(like contracts in Eth), the main purpose is to pump and dump. This crypto business is still in its infancy and so many things are going to change and so many people are going get crashed during this process.

Not all altcoins, what is the basis of your statement, check on the top 5 markets of altcoins especially the Ethereum
who were able to compete with bitcoins in terms of marketcap. Ethereum is the most traded altcoins in the market nowadays
and some experts believe it will overtake bitcoin in the future in terms of profitability.

Well you have a point and yeah not all altcoin are just bubble created and useless.. some of the altcoin which is in the good in rankings in coinmarketcap those are useful in some other ways or accepted in other shop online .. unlike other altcoin that are just use for scamming people..
So for now if you want to hold an altcoin for a long time the best recommended are those in the rankings like you said ethereum lite coin XMR and other altcoin are in top 20 altcoin ..

stadus

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Quote from: dejavvu on July 25, 2017, 06:57:43 PM

In my opinion all altcoins are a bubble created to make easy money off greedy people. While some of them offer some good things on paper(like contracts in Eth), the main purpose is to pump and dump. This crypto business is still in its infancy and so many things are going to change and so many people are going get crashed during this process.

Not all altcoins, what is the basis of your statement, check on the top 5 markets of altcoins especially the Ethereum
who were able to compete with bitcoins in terms of marketcap. Ethereum is the most traded altcoins in the market nowadays
and some experts believe it will overtake bitcoin in the future in terms of profitability.

dejavvu

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In my opinion all altcoins are a bubble created to make easy money off greedy people. While some of them offer some good things on paper(like contracts in Eth), the main purpose is to pump and dump. This crypto business is still in its infancy and so many things are going to change and so many people are going get crashed during this process.

skyline247

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Quote from: Dudeperfect on July 22, 2017, 06:12:12 AM

I respect your opinion but 2020 is too much time for Bitcoin to reach $5K mark, I believe that bitcoin will reach $5K in next year itself and in the year 2020, the price is not going to be anywhere below $20K. Yes, this is my personal opinion and might be completely wrong. I agree with you that crypto market is sensitive at this moment and I think the reason is that, it is not yet established and there is a lack of awareness among the users. Recent price fall under pressure of 1 Aug event clearly highlighted that aspect but still, I am optimistic about the average maturity of crypto user will be much higher than that of today.

Bitcoin will reach $5k before the end of this year. If not, in 2018 surely. The crypto market will continue being chaotic until the mass public adopts it, which will not be for some time yet.
Look at personal computers. They were first brought to the market in the 70's, but it wasn't until the mid-90''s that many households began getting them. If a similar trend happens with crypto, we can expect it to take until the mid 2020's to gain significant traction. Until then, get used to the chaos.

deisik

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Quote from: audaciousbeing on July 25, 2017, 01:42:16 PM

Quote from: hdclover on July 25, 2017, 01:32:14 PM

yeah I don't really like the idea why alt has to sufferred from bitcoin crash, people should really need to start making a crypto coin that not pegged to bitcoin lol.

Unfortunately that is the situation of things when all coin claim to be the next bitcoin and developers come and claim its better than bitcoin but they fail to understand that to meet bitcoin means they have to create a niche for themselves and start expressing their values in relation to fiat and not bitcoin which is difficulty to do. They also forget that anyone holding their coin is also holding bitcoin but not the other way round. There is no independence yet

I have already explained what altcoins essentially need

But it seems the right time to repeat my message. What other coins actually need (apart from being decent enough on technical grounds) is to show long-term profitability on par with Bitcoin (or still better exceeding it). Bitcoin has been the most popular coin simply because it was (and basically still is) giving people what they wanted, i.e. profits. But not just short-term profits (which many altcoins surpass Bitcoin at), but profits which could be obtained by holding Bitcoin for many months or even years. If any altcoin is able to repeat this feat, it will make a strong competitor to Bitcoin

audaciousbeing

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Quote from: hdclover on July 25, 2017, 01:32:14 PM

yeah I don't really like the idea why alt has to sufferred from bitcoin crash, people should really need to start making a crypto coin that not pegged to bitcoin lol.

Unfortunately that is the situation of things when all coin claim to be the next bitcoin and developers come and claim its better than bitcoin but they fail to understand that to meet bitcoin means they have to create a niche for themselves and start expressing their values in relation to fiat and not bitcoin which is difficulty to do. They also forget that anyone holding their coin is also holding bitcoin but not the other way round. There is no independence yet.

hdclover

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www.bitcoin.org

yeah I don't really like the idea why alt has to sufferred from bitcoin crash, people should really need to start making a crypto coin that not pegged to bitcoin lol.

naughty1

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Quote from: AK47- on July 25, 2017, 11:29:40 AM

It is not about this moment. Altcoin market has always been sensitive. It is not regulated thus pump and dumps are quite frequent. It has low marketcap as compared to other monetary system. Thus, prone to high volatility. Also, it is decentralised thus anyone can buy and sell at any price. Thus creating more volatility. Altcoin market will remain like this only.

Indeed, the altcoin market is very sensitive, in particular, it is heavily influenced by bitcoin, any changes to the bitcoin will directly affect the entire altcoin market, their value will be minimized fast.

webtricks

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There are various reasons for it-
1. Bitcoin is complete dominance in Crypto trading. Other coins work subsidiary to it. So if BTC rises, other coins rise. If BTC falls, other coins fall too.
2. Bitcoin is currently under possible fork. So this and next week will see major downfall in its sending/receiving. Most of the exchanges will be closed in this time period. So we could see more downfall in prices of every coin. Be ready!

But every crypto enthusiast is sure enough that BTC and other coins will reach new ATH in coming years. This is just temporary break downs. Else cryptocurrencies are continuously going towards MOON. Cheesy

AK47-

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It is not about this moment. Altcoin market has always been sensitive. It is not regulated thus pump and dumps are quite frequent. It has low marketcap as compared to other monetary system. Thus, prone to high volatility. Also, it is decentralised thus anyone can buy and sell at any price. Thus creating more volatility. Altcoin market will remain like this only.

deisik

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Quote from: zend7 on July 25, 2017, 09:40:46 AM

Quote from: Dudeperfect on July 22, 2017, 06:12:12 AM

I respect your opinion but 2020 is too much time for Bitcoin to reach $5K mark, I believe that bitcoin will reach $5K in next year itself and in the year 2020, the price is not going to be anywhere below $20K. Yes, this is my personal opinion and might be completely wrong. I agree with you that crypto market is sensitive at this moment and I think the reason is that, it is not yet established and there is a lack of awareness among the users. Recent price fall under pressure of 1 Aug event clearly highlighted that aspect but still, I am optimistic about the average maturity of crypto user will be much higher than that of today.

You are being overly optimistic. I don't think that Bitcoin will reach 20K USD in the year 2020. Bitcoin is experiencing a slow and steady growth these days as we all wait to see if any new development will happen on August 1. Bitcoin will continue to rise over the years and the people who will benefit most from this price rise will be the one holding them for a longer time. We are all in time to be these persons, we just have to stop acting impulsively to any pump and dump it may happen to bitcoin price these days. Remember patience is the virtue of the winners

Any such predictions are basically wild guessing indeed

Nevertheless, we should remember that in 2020 there will be the next halving, while the previous one was in 2016. And the price had been hanging around 650-700 dollars per coin before the effect of the 2016 reward halving began to kick in late September-early October last year (i.e. less than a year ago). We saw the price rise to 3,000 dollars, i.e. more than 4 times, so if nothing bad is going to happen during the next years (which a big assumption, really), we could well get past 10,000 dollars per coin in 2020 and later due to halving alone

zend7

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Quote from: Dudeperfect on July 22, 2017, 06:12:12 AM

I respect your opinion but 2020 is too much time for Bitcoin to reach $5K mark, I believe that bitcoin will reach $5K in next year itself and in the year 2020, the price is not going to be anywhere below $20K. Yes, this is my personal opinion and might be completely wrong. I agree with you that crypto market is sensitive at this moment and I think the reason is that, it is not yet established and there is a lack of awareness among the users. Recent price fall under pressure of 1 Aug event clearly highlighted that aspect but still, I am optimistic about the average maturity of crypto user will be much higher than that of today.

You are being overly optimistic. I don't think that Bitcoin will reach 20K USD in the year 2020. Bitcoin is experiencing a slow and steady growth these days as we all wait to see if any new development will happen on August 1. Bitcoin will continue to rise over the years and the people who will benefit most from this price rise will be the one holding them for a longer time. We are all in time to be these persons, we just have to stop acting impulsively to any pump and dump it may happen to bitcoin price these days. Remember patience is the virtue of the winners.

deisik

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Quote from: just_Alice on July 25, 2017, 06:01:54 AM

Quote from: deisik on July 24, 2017, 05:30:55 AM

The high demand for Bitcoin is provided mostly by speculators

It is just another way to say that the high prices that we see today are due to speculators trading, though at another, more technical level. Obviously, the market price is ultimately determined by the balance of supply and demand. So when we say that speculators bid up the price, it essentially means that it is their bids that massively increase demand. Simplistically, the supply of bitcoins is provided by miners while the demand for bitcoins by speculators. If the latter withdraw their bids, the price will instantly crash since the supply of bitcoins will massively exceed the demand for them, and it will be rebalanced at much lower levels (i.e. prices)

Maybe it's too early for this kind of thinking but I have an impression that there are more people who buy bitcoin in order to just invest their money not for trading. As I said, maybe it's too early for this now, but in the future there will be hundreds of thousands traders and dozens of millions of investors or just users of bitcoin and demand from the latter will dominate in determining the price of bitcoin

This doesn't change anything in particular

Speculators are not just those who buy today only to sell tomorrow. These are any people who are hoping to earn profits by buying low and selling high no matter how long it takes to wait for the price to rise. Indeed, such people most likely won't be called speculators since buying and holding for longer terms is considered as "investing", but, as to me, it is all six of one and half a dozen of the other, especially in respect to purely financial (read speculative) assets like Bitcoin (where you can only mostly via rise in price)

iram1011

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btc_angela

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Quote from: Clavulanic on July 25, 2017, 07:26:01 AM

Quote from: just_Alice on July 25, 2017, 06:01:54 AM

Quote from: deisik on July 24, 2017, 05:30:55 AM

Quote from: just_Alice on July 24, 2017, 05:21:10 AM

Quote from: deisik on July 23, 2017, 04:35:06 AM

Quote from: squatz1 on July 23, 2017, 12:42:53 AM

Quote from: just_Alice on July 22, 2017, 09:11:14 AM

Firstly, I don't think that the fluctuations in price are unhealthy for cryptocurrency. Secondly, if they were unhealthy we wouldn't be able to do anything about that anyway.

Some traders even say they would abandon bitcoin if it wasn't fluctuating so much.

Traders would abandon Bitcoin, though I highly doubt the users of Bitcoin would leave. As the biggest thing that people want in a currency is going to have to have SMALL or NO volatility in the currency so it has the same value day after day (minus inflation of course)

I disagree with this attitude

If traders choose to abandon Bitcoin, its price would crash instantly since it is supported exclusively by speculation. If you think otherwise, you are delusional, as simple as it gets. But when the price crashes, it won't be of any interest to anyone (ironically, except traders). You should understand that Bitcoin can have no volatility (or small volatility) only exactly at 0 price. There is no reason to use it in real economy since right now it sucks heavily when compared to the best of fiats

I'm not sure whether this is true. What about demand? The price would be still high if there were no speculation, but the demand for coins was high, am I right?

But I think we will never find it out because traders will never abandon bitcoin.

The high demand for Bitcoin is provided mostly by speculators

It is just another way to say that the high prices that we see today are due to speculators trading, though at another, more technical level. Obviously, the market price is ultimately determined by the balance of supply and demand. So when we say that speculators bid up the price, it essentially means that it is their bids that massively increase demand. Simplistically, the supply of bitcoins is provided by miners while the demand for bitcoins by speculators. If the latter withdraw their bids, the price will instantly crash since the supply of bitcoins will massively exceed the demand for them, and it will be rebalanced at much lower levels (i.e. prices)

Maybe it's too early for this kind of thinking but I have an impression that there are more people who buy bitcoin in order to just invest their money not for trading. As I said, maybe it's too early for this now, but in the future there will be hundreds of thousands traders and dozens of millions of investors or just users of bitcoin and demand from the latter will dominate in determining the price of bitcoin.

For me this is now a e very challenging part of us here and we actually can't predict the fluctuations of bitcoins, as those with bigger fund were doing pump and dump of their holdings. They were trying to manipulate the price of their buy and sell ways which really made the price trend to move in an erratic scenario. This has been effecting a lot of coins in the crypto market specially those who expected good holdings to rise more of it's value; but certainly it won't be gaining good results as well. Many of the bitcoiners were dumping their assets now and it really made the market sensitive.

Yes, specially with the situation nearing the Aug 1 date, price movement is very challenging indeed. I just saw that bitcoin is now down to 7% after enjoying a high last couple of days. I think there is no dumping, but rather some big entities trying to manipulate again the price so that they can buy at cheaper price again. Also, we bitcoin price went down, alts follow as well. So I'm expecting those alts will be going red soon. I guess the situation really makes most of the traders nervous and sell or some big entities are really doing some thing behind the scene.

Clavulanic

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Quote from: just_Alice on July 25, 2017, 06:01:54 AM

Quote from: deisik on July 24, 2017, 05:30:55 AM

Quote from: just_Alice on July 24, 2017, 05:21:10 AM

Quote from: deisik on July 23, 2017, 04:35:06 AM

Quote from: squatz1 on July 23, 2017, 12:42:53 AM

Quote from: just_Alice on July 22, 2017, 09:11:14 AM

Firstly, I don't think that the fluctuations in price are unhealthy for cryptocurrency. Secondly, if they were unhealthy we wouldn't be able to do anything about that anyway.

Some traders even say they would abandon bitcoin if it wasn't fluctuating so much.

Traders would abandon Bitcoin, though I highly doubt the users of Bitcoin would leave. As the biggest thing that people want in a currency is going to have to have SMALL or NO volatility in the currency so it has the same value day after day (minus inflation of course)

I disagree with this attitude

If traders choose to abandon Bitcoin, its price would crash instantly since it is supported exclusively by speculation. If you think otherwise, you are delusional, as simple as it gets. But when the price crashes, it won't be of any interest to anyone (ironically, except traders). You should understand that Bitcoin can have no volatility (or small volatility) only exactly at 0 price. There is no reason to use it in real economy since right now it sucks heavily when compared to the best of fiats

I'm not sure whether this is true. What about demand? The price would be still high if there were no speculation, but the demand for coins was high, am I right?

But I think we will never find it out because traders will never abandon bitcoin.

The high demand for Bitcoin is provided mostly by speculators

It is just another way to say that the high prices that we see today are due to speculators trading, though at another, more technical level. Obviously, the market price is ultimately determined by the balance of supply and demand. So when we say that speculators bid up the price, it essentially means that it is their bids that massively increase demand. Simplistically, the supply of bitcoins is provided by miners while the demand for bitcoins by speculators. If the latter withdraw their bids, the price will instantly crash since the supply of bitcoins will massively exceed the demand for them, and it will be rebalanced at much lower levels (i.e. prices)

Maybe it's too early for this kind of thinking but I have an impression that there are more people who buy bitcoin in order to just invest their money not for trading. As I said, maybe it's too early for this now, but in the future there will be hundreds of thousands traders and dozens of millions of investors or just users of bitcoin and demand from the latter will dominate in determining the price of bitcoin.

For me this is now a e very challenging part of us here and we actually can't predict the fluctuations of bitcoins, as those with bigger fund were doing pump and dump of their holdings. They were trying to manipulate the price of their buy and sell ways which really made the price trend to move in an erratic scenario. This has been effecting a lot of coins in the crypto market specially those who expected good holdings to rise more of it's value; but certainly it won't be gaining good results as well. Many of the bitcoiners were dumping their assets now and it really made the market sensitive.

costina

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Quote from: masterchief001 on July 24, 2017, 06:15:49 AM

Quote from: xypos on July 23, 2017, 05:08:01 AM

I agree with you, i think that this pump has gone quite a long way, maybe just a little too long.

I really wouldn't be surprised at all if the entire cryptocurrency market cap just started to collapse after this year, perhaps to 50 billion. This would obviously mean that a lot of people will be losing money and whatnot but also would be a great buying opportunity for anyone that missed out on this ride.

However, i expect bitcoin dominance index to rise to at least 75% again despite this declining total market cap. Alts are in a much bigger bubble than bitcoin at the moment, in my opinion.

Over the long run bitcoin is extremely bullish at least to me, but short run price is still extremely volatile.

No, I never thought it would collapse, look at what happened, it has grown tremendously, especially recently, many people say that we are all in bubbles, and it's fragile, but I think it's still cherished, and it will not break.

All the value on crypto world are by emotion of trader set price. They can correction price again when they fearing crypto market and increasing when they interesting. Not have rules can make the price of crypto stable, remember that!

just_Alice

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Quote from: deisik on July 24, 2017, 05:30:55 AM

Quote from: just_Alice on July 24, 2017, 05:21:10 AM

Quote from: deisik on July 23, 2017, 04:35:06 AM

Quote from: squatz1 on July 23, 2017, 12:42:53 AM

Quote from: just_Alice on July 22, 2017, 09:11:14 AM

Firstly, I don't think that the fluctuations in price are unhealthy for cryptocurrency. Secondly, if they were unhealthy we wouldn't be able to do anything about that anyway.

Some traders even say they would abandon bitcoin if it wasn't fluctuating so much.

Traders would abandon Bitcoin, though I highly doubt the users of Bitcoin would leave. As the biggest thing that people want in a currency is going to have to have SMALL or NO volatility in the currency so it has the same value day after day (minus inflation of course)

I disagree with this attitude

If traders choose to abandon Bitcoin, its price would crash instantly since it is supported exclusively by speculation. If you think otherwise, you are delusional, as simple as it gets. But when the price crashes, it won't be of any interest to anyone (ironically, except traders). You should understand that Bitcoin can have no volatility (or small volatility) only exactly at 0 price. There is no reason to use it in real economy since right now it sucks heavily when compared to the best of fiats

I'm not sure whether this is true. What about demand? The price would be still high if there were no speculation, but the demand for coins was high, am I right?

But I think we will never find it out because traders will never abandon bitcoin.

The high demand for Bitcoin is provided mostly by speculators

It is just another way to say that the high prices that we see today are due to speculators trading, though at another, more technical level. Obviously, the market price is ultimately determined by the balance of supply and demand. So when we say that speculators bid up the price, it essentially means that it is their bids that massively increase demand. Simplistically, the supply of bitcoins is provided by miners while the demand for bitcoins by speculators. If the latter withdraw their bids, the price will instantly crash since the supply of bitcoins will massively exceed the demand for them, and it will be rebalanced at much lower levels (i.e. prices)

Maybe it's too early for this kind of thinking but I have an impression that there are more people who buy bitcoin in order to just invest their money not for trading. As I said, maybe it's too early for this now, but in the future there will be hundreds of thousands traders and dozens of millions of investors or just users of bitcoin and demand from the latter will dominate in determining the price of bitcoin.

Topic: Sensitive market at this moment. - page 2. (Read 2327 times)