Topic: Services board is very hard to browse (Read 508 times)

If there is a dedicated board about a service that is different from the signature campaign, it will likely be very quiet. I think if you are confused about whose services you want to use then you can make a new post stating that you need someone with certain qualifications, I'm sure there will be many people who comment and offer their services.

You have failed to understand that the Services board was not originally created specifically for signature and bounty campaigns; they came much, much later. I don't deny that bounty campaigns are a form of Bitcoin-related services, but claiming that such a campaign is more important or popular than some other "poor people's" service is pure speculation. Do you have some metrics or stats to support such a statement?

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"Exchanges" and "Web Wallets" have their own child boards under the "Service Discussion", why do you think campaigns can't have the same under the "Services" board?

A signsture campaign doesn't fit the strict definition of a service that would be advertised via a job and. Job ads posted in service boards are about individual positions or tasks. A signsture campaign is what is says, a campaign. It is a very different nature of thread and honestly skews the visibility of normal [HIRING]/[FOR HIRE] posts in a service board. For the latter, the individual posting can only post once every 24hours in his own thread, for signsture campaigns, which we have dozens of, participants are forced to respond and therefore hide threads by individuals.

If your worry is remaining within the confines of the services section, sorry not, because bircointalk's software allows to create sub-boards.

Sometimes the biggest difficulty I see in this board is because of the names given to the topics.

Perhaps the solution isn't so much about creating another board, but rather creating a more suitable standard for the titles. But I know that this only works in my head, because everyone will write what they want, without following the standard. Perhaps, it can just help to distinguish who will be more credible or not (I believe that the most credible would use the recommended standard). Anyway, this only works in my head. 

My motion on this will be a "No".

Hiring participants in a signature campaign is correctly in that section along with people offering their services. New posts in the campaign threads are always vital information and by no means they are burying other people's threads. It is just how a forum works.

Exchanges, Mixers use the Service Announcements section but freelancing jobs should be in Services itself.

There is a question.
Can we say that campaign participants are actually rendering services? If yes, we should see campaign service as one of the  reasons such a board was created. We can only be considering what you said in the Op only if we do not see signature campaign participants as people rendering services.


You have failed to understand that it is even because of the presence of signature campaign services that the poor people's advert (according to you) is seen or noticed. If a separate board is created for signature campaigns, definitely no one or a few will visit the board of poor people's services.

Definitely a reasonable and quite simplest solution to this problem because so many other services that other forum members here advertise are totally covered by the swam of signature campaign threads, up until now I never actually thought that this was a problem, then after reading what the OP said made my view towards the service board a little bit different because when I visit the service board sometime all what I see or look out for is the signature campaign threads forgetting that other valuable services are also there .

I get the OP's point. But unless the admins decide to change something, we're stuck with what we have. That's why I suggested an alternative way to customize the Services board according to our preferences. Ignoring individual threads really helps.

I like what SFR10 suggested. That could also be one of the viable solutions.

I am not sure you get the point of the OP, I think the idea behind the whole post is about exposure and not having certain threads washed up too easily as, bumping a thread plays by a specific set of rules which respect you from unnecessary bumps within a period.
While, you could as well expect signature campaign applicants to keep up with the bumps on Open slots with signature campaigns as well as, bumping some respected managers services.

One thing to note anyway is that,
These bumps on these campaigns are by means of payment notifications, slot announcement/applications and discussion on certain vital changes.

If you’re phenomenal enough, you can have your service bumped once in a while by users and fans alike as well, as much as you would yourself. The difficulty in this is that, it doesn’t give much room for new service providers.

If a new board that distinguishes campaigns from services is needed, I can’t say for sure.

I wish the same thing would happen as well since it helps with organizing everything on the board in question but considering the rate at which new boards/sub-boards are created, I don't think there's a high chance of this happening anytime soon ^{[unfortunately]}.

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Another way to mitigate this problem is by making all of the subsequent posts ^{[within a 24-hour period]} on threads have no bumping power for the next 12 hours or so ^{[win-win for everyone]}.
^{- Referring to the Services board only!}

Bumping this as I kinda wish it would be implemented and believe it's a much needed addition to revive one of the most useful functions of the forum.
I don't know why but in terms of administrative actions bitcointalk seems to be moving very slowly lately. Maybe theymos got bored? Who knows...
I see that mods are still working hard behind the scenes but when it comes to taking actions that require a higher level of approval not much happens around here, sadly.

Yes absolutely right, actually signature is the main service of this forum and 90% members taking interest in signature and review compaign while other services even if they are on the top you will not see more than two or three reply. Besides signature and review I have seen only spamming of smm panel want to promote fake views, like for social pages .


Good idea but do you believe that this will work? I have opened telegram notification for services thread and everyday I got more than three times the notification of new smm panel, web hosting and IP seller. I fear that service section will become full of spam Thread (fake bump through new accounts) and less visitors.



Then main service section will be just for Compaign management services and other service I already mentioned before Am I right?

Which benefit's will happen if there's a split in the services board. Starting sig campaigns board isn't going to help because threads will be bumped day in out. You can't stop ppl they'll flood boards & bump threads when they feel like. I don't read urgent reasons to separate the services board.

So what's your point here? Because you also know that Signature campaigns = Advertisements? And advertisements are part of the services offered or looked for in the service board.
Wouldn't you be the same people suggesting that NFTs need their own board away from the Tokens boards, and yet they are also tokens?

You initiatives is very nice but creating a board only for a signature campaigns do you think it will be more courageous than the way it's now, because I have not seen anything wrong for the conditions I seen service board right now, because but the poor and rich advertised their product there and everything is moving in a statistics equilibrium the way I viewed it.

Let me say a service board is just like advertisement hubs where everyone advertised their products so I don't know the reason while they should a special board for service...OK, if they should be a service board that means we have to say that they will be a sub service board where low people will advertised their products also.

Normally service board is flooded and that's what is making the service board to look competitive, so I abide on your ideas too if that will make the forum better.

I think we should also count it as nothing compared to if the bounties section campaigns were added on the same board, what if the admin created a board assigned for campaigns and yet it remains flooded like this, considering the numbers of signature campaigns coming, i think everyone has the right to bump their personal thread, that alone will make it features in the first page for almost a day or two.

Not a bad idea, but then again if we are to consider which services serve the forum the most it will all point back to signature campaigns that also branch out to other services like signature designs, signature & avatar contests, and shows that they are an integral part of the forum and should be kept where they are...

Like what has been suggested already, what if a child board of "other digital services" were created to allow for easier listing of services to avoid the Sig cluster, I think this could work especially that the services benefit an individual that takes services away from the forum, unlike sigs that serve the forum .

That's untrue, I check Services board once every 24 hrs, on next page itself I come across topics that I have read already, I make sure to click few topic links daily so I know where I had left yesterday, and this is months of observation.

Just look at today's example [1], I checked services board around 12hrs ago there is nothing much new (I haven't clicked any topic right now).

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[1] https://www.talkimg.com/image/Tps8H

This is a very candid observation and it resonates well with what the idea of this forum stands for. It wouldn't be a bad idea to have a service board completely dedicated to just signature campaigns and bounty and other freebie paid/earned cash services that have a thing or two to offer.
Also, a service board just for graphic and web/ tech development services, NFTs and other digital related services for real world P2p service and transactions can be created so as not to blindside those with such skills and are here to earn from it.

I'm happy being in the UniJoin sig campaign so I'm not trying to jump ship but I've got to check services. I'm letting ppl know I'm a web dev because I'd like to get hired so bumping's my single option.  I've got to bump my services thread because there's so many posts made in services threads mine's getting buried.

I've been working for crypto-related businesses since 2014 and I used to be getting a lot of work here. If I post about offering services now I'll end in page three in a few hours. 2014 wasn't a time when more people were using bitcoin by any means, but what has changed since then? Better job seeking websites have come out and I guess crypto businesses tend to use these.

But surely since many big businesses are throwing so many thousands of $ in BTC every month here for signature campaigns, there must be some valuable visibility. It's just that by mixing irrelevant types of posts inside the services board makes regular users very hard to get noticed. So the measure I suggest in OP, making a separate board for campaigns, could help.  


I kinda understand Theymos, he's taking care of many things alone for all these years. There used to be more active admins helping around but I've only seen admins go away since I came in this forum, not any additions. More boards and more mods would be a breath of fresh air.

You are right, that section should be arranged in a sophisticated manner Signature services should have a separate section and it would be great if review campaigns were also arranged in another child section. Things will get more comfy. But there is one more thing most of the services there are of signature campaigns and other services are too less or I might be missing them as I mostly visit only the first 2 pages.

I think that's why it is important for separate the page for signatures because if they will be added somewhere else, we can easily get new updates from that section as an employee of signature campaigns and if we also want to buy or provide some service in the service section then we can also do that easily.

Without wondering here and there, we can easily find if anyone is providing the specific service. OR what if we stop the bumping of post on the basis of recent post made on that topic, I think it would make things more complex.

I've read this suggestion so many times but my answer is always is no, as it's not necessary yet but i will agree it for the first time today as for the the same reason. Signature campaigns are majority on the services board, and "Forum Campaigns" child board is quite reasonable board name as well

That is quite true. Most times, because of the frequency of these applications into sig campaigns, those who have good services to render tend to get their services swept under the carpet and it becomes difficult for someone who is need of such service to see except he uses the search button. A separate board for signature campaigns will be appreciated too because sometimes, some users in order to promote their work, display their services in a campaign thread.

I don't think so, I check services board once a day for new posts, on checking back next day, posts are still read (i.e. Unbold) on 2nd page, If someone is interested in hiring you enough I'm sure they would check at least 2 pages. If you bump once a day, your post still should hold onto fron page for good hours.

If signatures and services are separated, services board will be dead, pretty much like marketplace altcoins. 

I think that's the whole point here. With all the signature campaign offers, low-quality service listings, and off-topic discussions in the mix, the truly valuable offers often end up buried and lose their well-deserved spotlight.

Here are a couple of offers I found on the second page with just a quick glance, all posted (or bumped) by senior/reputable members in the past few days:

[HIRING] Utopia P2P - Channel Moderators
[SERVICE]Hire A Assistant Manager For Any type of Campaign!
[Moderator/Chatters Service] Discord | Telegram | Reddit | Crypto & Non-Crypto
[FREE HELP/SERVICE/TRANSLATION] - "You choose and I will translate"
[TRANSLATION SERVICE] WW's SERVICEs - ALL LANGUAGES AVAILABLE
[available] Web Development & Technical Services
GRAPHIC DESIGN JON | TFT PROP FIRM

OP, there are a lot of aspects of bitcointalk that have broken or at least become extremely clunky over the years, and you definitely noticed a big one.  The jobs and other related offerings were probably what the Services section was supposed to be about early on, but after signature campaigns got invented (when was that, 2011?) everything just changed and Theymos didn't quite organize everything as he perhaps should have.

In other words, I agree with you.  However, my guess is that you're probably not going to get tons of support from the community or any forthcoming changes from El Heffe.  Why?  Because most members are in a signature campaign and many have only known Services exactly as it is today.  I do think more child boards would help with people like you who are frustrated that their thread keeps getting buried under the mountain of campaign threads, so you've got my vote.

Then again, I think more child boards/subsections are kinda-sorta needed in general, because the structure of this forum hasn't kept pace with how topics and trends have evolved over the years.  This isn't the first complaint I've read of this nature by a long shot.  Unfortunately they haven't handed me the keys to the kingdom, and it's not a democracy either. Pffft.

Edit:  Guess I was wrong, you are getting support.  Maybe Theymos will swoop down from the heavens and heed your cries, young pleb.

You spoke to my heart. I also have the same ideas to propose here so that the section would look cleaner than before. But I don't think if there are that many service providers and service consumers providing and looking for services on the Service board (respectively). I mean, there are not that much of ads for services by providers so if one wanted to search for content writing service, then he can easily find it by using the ctrl+F function or by giving a glance at each topic name (I think there are 40 topics per page).

ctrl+F function works fine for me but it does not mean, the board should not be managed in a mannered way so that the flow of searching things would increase there. But I don't think moderators are in any mood to make it happen if they get some time other than deleting posts.  (No offense just kidding).

I don't think signature campaigns are the "problem" here, the "problem" is that not many other services are being offered.

On the first page of the Services board, excluding anything signature related, these are the first 10 topics:
📢📢I am interested in becoming a CM or Moderator on a crypto project.
[ viewbot.gg ] The most stable Live Viewers for Twitch & Kick
🟣 Twitch Subscription Gifting 1 SUB = 0.8$ 🎁 Fast Delivery
🔥[DESIGN SERVICE] ICALICAL x Zenland, get $10 Discount for your Design Order 🔥
[PR SERVICE] WW's SERVICEs- we will publish in all top media outlets!
Im trader been trading long time Im looking for partners
TWITCH SUBS | BEST QUALITY | GET PAID BY TWITCH | VIEWBOT.GG
TELEGRAM AND DISCORD CHATTER FOR HIRE
SMS / OTP VERIFICATION CHEAP REAL NEW NUMBERS VERIFY ANY ONLINE ACCOUNTS
Professional Virtual Assistant

80% of those topics is created by users with a total of 0-4 earned Merits. That tells you all you need to know about how valuable those topics are. Without signature campaigns, the Services board wouldn't be worth checking anymore.

Signature campaigns are not forum dedicated or related to the forum at all. More than half of them do not promote crypto projects and are gambling related.
Of course the projects have to have some appeal to the audience here, so the casino houses are mostly those that accept cryptocurrency, other popular services are mixers for crypto and Bitcoin wallets, but their are not forum related in any way, just regular services being advertised.

Anyone looking to hire or be hired should be able to read through 2-3 pages of threads, but maybe the services board should have a child board to advertise a service that one offers and the current one will be to hire people to work on a service, that can help declutter it a little bit.

I'd second with your suggestion.


Service should be something that you offer e.g. design, advertisement, programming, art, etc. Although buy and sell signature or avatar space is a form of advertisement, but there are already 29 active campaigns which I think it's really big and deserve to have it's own section like bounties.

I may have understood what OP tried to explain. Signature campaign are forum's own dedicated services/features to promote crypto projects. Aren't they? A lot of signature are active at this moment. I think OP wanted a separate child board for signature. I don't scroll service board a lot. But from my seeing I see there are a lot of job related threads apart from signature. By job I meant, where someone wanted to hire a programmer, or a video editor, or a content writer for their website, page etc? These aren't related to forum or crypto in any way but the forum is filled with people of this specific set of knowledge.

If all the thread were to stack together, don't you think it'll create a mess? Signature related thread always gets a upper hand. People constantly reply and engage in these threads. But when someone makes a thread to hire people, how many sees that or how many able to respond to that? As OP mentioned one bump a day.

I don't know if I'm correct about OP's intention. OP might be able to shed some light to it. And clear what he actually meant.

But that is exactly what signature campaigns are.

Services looking to hire advertisers make Announcements (signature campaign threads), and then you apply because you feel your signature space is worth the money they offer. How different is that from someone looking for a content creator, a translator, or a developer to hire for a fee in Bitcoins?

Someone help me understand this.

Yes, I absolutely agree with you. Considering the fact that we have a board titled "Bounties" in the alt coins board, I was also wondering why we never had a specific sub-board for signature campaigns. I think it will be better if there's a separate board where only signature campaigns will be launched. Although the old pattern of launching signatures under the service board has been there for so long, and I don't think theymos have the intent of changing that anytime soon, if the matter is being delegated to see if people are interested in why the signature sub-board should be created, then he might consider adding it anytime he finds time to do any small modification on the forum.

While reading the post, I said to myself that this is dumb and a bad idea but then I went to the Services board and saw that yes, it's not a dumb or a bad idea after all to have a dedicated sub board for Campaigns but then again, I've seen another problem, it's the people that are using the Services board wrong, there's a lot of people there that don't know how to properly post to attract users to their post or some just spams and acts as if they didn't do anything wrong. I would like to add that if the campaigns will have their separate board, hopefully that in the Services board, there should be a pinned message that says what exactly you need to do like the proper formats for hiring a service and selling your service to someone so that way, there's some form of uniformity.

That is not a bad idea at all!  I can see how it would be annoying for people who have service threads to have to keep bumping them to compete against signature campaigns, which get free bumps from participants.  You make a good point - the admins could do something to address this.

I can not remember who was the last mod but I can clearly see that so many of them are not active in moderation. The forum moderation is not incentivize much too, I get this idea from some other mods who actually think it's a volunteering job. It may sound exciting to be a forum mod but when you are not receiving much in return then basically you become slow. Feeling less responsible ultimately disappears the enthusiasm.

We can create many sub-boards but getting used to with the new boards and moving topics to the new boards is going to be a lot of work. The culture we created does not look, it has a good potential.

I also support the motion of creating another board for only signature campaigns, as they have more threads than every other service on the service board, and the signature campaign is really big enough to have its own board, and people will know where they are actually going and what they are going to such a board for.


Having a board of their own will make it a bit easier. We know we can't control everyone's choice of where to post, but most of those posting campaigns have old and experienced managers, so keeping each post on the right board, I believe, won't be an issue.
 
Another thing is that when there is a designated board for a particular kind of topic, reporting the post to moderators will also be easier to do, and the work won't be that much for them either, just as they handle other boards. It will take time, but if such a board actually comes into existence, then people will adopt.

That's a nice idea and I think that would be more helpful for signature campaigns since people will easily find which campaign is accepting new participants and which one is closed for new participants. But, recently we have seen some contest related posts on that board as well then for those contests related posts we may need to have another child board.

The signature campaigns and review campaigns are highly related to each other and can be posted into signature campaign board while other posts have no relation with each other and they can be posted in main services board I believe. It will be helpful for many members and it will also be helpful for campaign managers as most of their open campaigns will get easy exposure.

I don't know about others but I mostly visit Services board to check signature campaigns, review campaigns, and sometimes contests. But, I believe that services board should be limited to service providers only and signature campaign threads, as well as review campaign threads should be in another sub-board that would be entire created for such posts.

Well, moderators have chosen to do a job and theymos could always opt to hire more forum users as moderators. If we could get some staff or admins to chime in about how the workload is these days it would be very insightful. However I don't think there's as much spam lately as there used to be.

You're absolutely right! When you hear "Services" you expect a marketplace of talents and opportunities, like a job fair that revolves around bitcoin. But, lo and behold, our services board often looks more like a signature campaign parade. I mean, are we hiring crypto enthusiasts or creating a crypto keyboard warriors?

Your idea of two boards is right, but do you think it will work? I mean, aren't we going to give a tougher time to moderators? Because I'm sure you can't force people to follow the rules (what ever you write); they will do what they want to do.

There's gotta be like a dozen signature bounty campaigns going on in the services board right now.  (I didn't actually count them.)  The way I handle it is to just ignore the topics I don't care about and  that way I can focus on the topics I think are interesting.  The forum gets more customized to what you're into when you ignore stuff you don't want to see.

When you hear of a forum having a board about services, what springs to mind should be posts about hiring people and looking to get hired.

The board for services in bitcointalk is literally flooded with posts about signature campaigns however. And as these posts get constantly bumped by new responses, they come on top all the time while any poor person trying to advertise their service can only post one bump a day...

A possible solution would be to simply create a new board for signature campaign topics. Let's call it Forum Campaigns for example. Review and signature campaigns can be posted there.

Another thing to maybe make the services board more lively would be to create a new section for those seeking to hire people to do tasks. This way it's easier to browse sections separately based on if you want to hire or get hired and it would also make posting more attractive due to increased visibility.