Seven Stages Of Empire | Bitcointalksearch.org

NewLiberty

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Gresham's Lawyer

Quote from: BitChick on August 30, 2013, 02:45:15 PM

At 22:42 in the video he says, "The world will be on some new monetary system." He thinks it is gold but I agree that Bitcoin is a likely contender. Gold is too cumbersome to use and does not transfer easily and securely so Bitcoin makes way more sense.

It is interesting for sure. History does repeat itself.

The union of the two, Gold and Bitcoin, solve the problems of each other. Bitcoin is not perfectly anonymous, gold is. Bitcoin is not so great for point of sale where speed and reliability are higher concerns, nothing can beat specie there.

As you point out, gold/silver is horrible at long distance transaction. Shipping, and security are always problems there. This is where Bitcoin ourshines gold.

Together they fix each other, but they also have a lot in common. Their value does not depend on governments, they can't be inflated. You can use either independently, or exchange one for the other. So making specie that is easily exchangeable for bitcoin with real time values, and can also show the value in any other currency does a few things for us.

1) It conveys the value of bitcoin to the uninitiated.
2) Makes point-of-sale transactions easier
3) It is fun to see the look in someone's face when they see (and can touch) REAL money.

BitChick

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At 22:42 in the video he says, "The world will be on some new monetary system." He thinks it is gold but I agree that Bitcoin is a likely contender. Gold is too cumbersome to use and does not transfer easily and securely so Bitcoin makes way more sense.

It is interesting for sure. History does repeat itself.

xxjs

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Quote from: NewLiberty on August 30, 2013, 01:27:41 PM

Quote from: xxjs on August 30, 2013, 12:49:11 PM

Quote from: NewLiberty on August 30, 2013, 10:51:42 AM

"Little round art that they would trade for stuff"
I was enigmatically referring to coins. Wink

Gold has had more intrinsic value over the span of history than anything else used as money.

You are possibly conflating utility value (or use value) with intrinsic value (which includes the subjective value).

Definition of 'Intrinsic Value'
1. The actual value of a company or an asset based on an underlying perception of its true value including all aspects of the business, in terms of both tangible and intangible factors. This value may or may not be the same as the current market value. Value investors use a variety of analytical techniques in order to estimate the intrinsic value of securities in hopes of finding investments where the true value of the investment exceeds its current market value.

This is IBWP, the Intrinsic and Backing Word Police. Happy to serve you. Your definition is for the valuation of a company, not money. Intrinsic value for money is the direct use value. The other component of money value is indirect exchange value. Both are subjective, they originate in the mind of the market participants. Gold has some intrinsic value and some exchange value. Fiat and bitcoin have onlye exchange value. Have a good day

Hi Police. I plead NOT GUILTY.

Value for an asset. Currency falls withing that category.

Yes, fiat and bitcoin have only exchange value, though I am working on enhancing that by offering a new Bitcoin Specie in gold and silver using a flexible standard. Having had more than a little experience of doing this with US$, we see the future as Bitcoin. (And also Bitcoin folks know what to do with a QR code more than the average person does)

So also... very soon now, bitcoin will have precious metal backing as well as exchange value.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoin-specie-project-sponsored-by-the-makers-of-new-liberty-dollar-269535

Sounds ok. IBWP goes into half sleep mode on the sofa with bitcointalk posts slowly rolling over the screen in the corner of the room.

Carlton Banks

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Quote from: NewLiberty on August 30, 2013, 01:27:41 PM

Quote from: xxjs on August 30, 2013, 12:49:11 PM

This is IBWP, the Intrinsic and Backing Word Police. Happy to serve you. Your definition is for the valuation of a company, not money.

Hi Police. I plead NOT GUILTY.

I was going to get into this one, but I'm glad someone else did it for me Wink

It seems that use of "intrinsic" is contentious, and financial or economic analysts are very fond of the "intrinsic value" expression. This confers the convenient property of having it mean what you wish of it as and when it suits a variety of arguments. I would recommend sticking to the incontrovertible terms "essential" and "inherent", as it turns out that the base meaning of "intrinsic" can be construed as either of these.

NewLiberty

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Gresham's Lawyer

Quote from: xxjs on August 30, 2013, 12:49:11 PM

Quote from: NewLiberty on August 30, 2013, 10:51:42 AM

"Little round art that they would trade for stuff"
I was enigmatically referring to coins. Wink

Gold has had more intrinsic value over the span of history than anything else used as money.

You are possibly conflating utility value (or use value) with intrinsic value (which includes the subjective value).

Definition of 'Intrinsic Value'
1. The actual value of a company or an asset based on an underlying perception of its true value including all aspects of the business, in terms of both tangible and intangible factors. This value may or may not be the same as the current market value. Value investors use a variety of analytical techniques in order to estimate the intrinsic value of securities in hopes of finding investments where the true value of the investment exceeds its current market value.

This is IBWP, the Intrinsic and Backing Word Police. Happy to serve you. Your definition is for the valuation of a company, not money. Intrinsic value for money is the direct use value. The other component of money value is indirect exchange value. Both are subjective, they originate in the mind of the market participants. Gold has some intrinsic value and some exchange value. Fiat and bitcoin have onlye exchange value. Have a good day

Hi Police. I plead NOT GUILTY.

Value for an asset. Currency falls withing that category.

Yes, fiat and bitcoin have only exchange value, though I am working on enhancing that by offering a new Bitcoin Specie in gold and silver using a flexible standard. Having had more than a little experience of doing this with US$, we see the future as Bitcoin. (And also Bitcoin folks know what to do with a QR code more than the average person does)

So also... very soon now, bitcoin will have precious metal backing as well as exchange value.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoin-specie-project-sponsored-by-the-makers-of-new-liberty-dollar-269535

xxjs

sr. member

Activity: 280

Merit: 250

Quote from: NewLiberty on August 30, 2013, 10:51:42 AM

Quote from: Carlton Banks on August 30, 2013, 08:48:00 AM

Quote from: NewLiberty on August 29, 2013, 10:35:23 PM

Quote from: Carlton Banks on August 29, 2013, 06:12:38 AM

Quote from: NewLiberty on August 28, 2013, 08:39:31 PM

Quote from: Carlton Banks on August 28, 2013, 08:13:09 AM

Quote from: solex on August 28, 2013, 06:18:28 AM

I watched this recently too. However, I think the gold-bugs are going to get a shock when the current fiat systems melt down. It will be cryptocurrency which replaces fiat, and gold will slowly become a commodity metal like platinum and silver are mostly already.

As everyone keeps saying: gold + precious metals have intrinsic value, which turns out to mean that they are more valuable for their physical properties than they are for their value storage properties.

It is a combination of these. Gold is fairly permanent. You can step on it, subject it to magnetic fields, get hacked, its still gold. It is pretty resilient as a store of value over the last few thousands of years.
But maybe everything is different this time.

The difference being that gold had zero intrinsic value historically, or at least pure 24ct did (too soft for tools, electricity and chemistry hadn't been discovered, etc).

Some folks valued it for its particular qualities which lend to its use in art. Little round art, that they would trade for stuff. Usually royalty of some sort or other.
Egyptian kings would be buried with it and it was just as it was when it went underground. Check out the King Tutankamen exhibit when it is near, and he was just a kid. The silver oxidized a good bit after a few thousand years, but not the gold.

All true, and all interesting. But you're describing a subjective valuation, of course, not what we're referring to as intrinsic. Art and jewelery have only ever been vital to artists and jewelers.

"Little round art that they would trade for stuff"
I was enigmatically referring to coins. Wink

Gold has had more intrinsic value over the span of history than anything else used as money.

You are possibly conflating utility value (or use value) with intrinsic value (which includes the subjective value).

Definition of 'Intrinsic Value'
1. The actual value of a company or an asset based on an underlying perception of its true value including all aspects of the business, in terms of both tangible and intangible factors. This value may or may not be the same as the current market value. Value investors use a variety of analytical techniques in order to estimate the intrinsic value of securities in hopes of finding investments where the true value of the investment exceeds its current market value.

This is IBWP, the Intrinsic and Backing Word Police. Happy to serve you. Your definition is for the valuation of a company, not money. Intrinsic value for money is the direct use value. The other component of money value is indirect exchange value. Both are subjective, they originate in the mind of the market participants. Gold has some intrinsic value and some exchange value. Fiat and bitcoin have onlye exchange value. Have a good day

2weiX

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this space intentionally left blank

Quote from: solex on August 29, 2013, 09:37:33 PM

Quote from: Xyver on August 29, 2013, 09:30:28 PM

So if bitcoins are the next "quality currency", are they better then gold because they can't be "diluted"?

Yes, but the main reason they are better than gold is because they can be used for remote payments which is 99% of transactions (by value) in a modern economy, unlike 100 years ago when most transactions were face-to-face.

This is the reason that fiat has survived the last 50 years even though it has been massively abused and diluted by governments and central banks. Physical gold is a hassle for transactions which is why most of it just sits in vaults.

Bitcoin throws this status quo out the window.

Except when stage 5 (supposedly) brings back self-sufficiency, remote payments will be of little to no importance to the common man. Gold/Silver may or may not be used directly (ie coin-for-cow) or indirectly (ie coin-in-vault / paper-for-cow), but it will be (imho) one of the standards by which monetary value will be determined.