Topic: ShhPool: Privacy and Profitability (Read 734 times)

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Mining is very simple.
If you can't understand how it works - well that's your problem.

You think you will find some loophole in the design, alas you wont.
The loopholes are quite straight forward: removing unneeded steps of the hashing and reusing steps of the hashing.
Find a different one of them to make it a little bit faster - have fun.
(As I've mentioned before, you'll find I found one once and posted about it here on the forum, fun fact it was already in use )

Edit: I'll add some little fun info that you may or may not have noticed
Firstly, as we all know, it's 3 hashes. One for the midstate, then one to complete the 1st hash with the remaining data+nonce, then one more to complete the double hash.
That second hash is full of zeros. Woo

The last hash ends with the well known early check of H=0 since the rest of A-G isn't required and on average H=0 is one in 2^32
I wonder what would happen if you reversed that hash and put say H=0 and G=0
Diff is high enough that G must always be zero for a block for a while now.

Though I'll also add another very relevant thing.
Someone may say "hey I can roll 6 dice and with the right setup in my hand I can almost always roll a 6 every time"
To which the reply is "doesn't matter how you setup the dice, you will 'almost' always roll a 6 coz stats says so "

--

Saying you must mine scamcoins or die is rather an amusing excuse to be involved in those scams - which are also off topic for this area of the forum.

You probably should have read the rules for this part of the forum at least once.

Not sure if it's an English understanding issue or not but it's quite clearly posted.

BITCOIN MINING INTRO & RULES OF THIS SUBFORUM - READ BEFORE POSTING
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoin-mining-intro-rules-of-this-subforum-read-before-posting-2415854

So apparently you know more than everyone in btc which currently has a market cap of 445 billion USD at the time of writing this.  So that you can find ways that nobody else has and you plan on finding these secrets of bitcoin.  Trust me there are people a LOT more intelligent than you developing the ASIC's, software, etc themselves for large companies such as Bitmain, Canaan, etc.  You would think if there were these special secrets still out there that they would have found this YEARS ago...  You act like btc hasn't been worth anything until recently which is funny to me calling everyone old timers that got out of it.  Even in 6-7 months in 2014 I made a VERY nice amount myself on btcguild with a maximum of 19 TH/s (103-105btc from mining alone...). 

Also if the Cgminer code base is so bad then why is it still used by so many?  I've used it since 2014 myself as I preferred it over Bfgminer.  If you understood how GPL licensing works you would understand the frustration people like Kano have with some of the manufactures that use the basis of code by him and CK and keep it closed source to hide said information.

The other ignorance I see from many people when they sit there and trash on Kano's pool, do you realize how much of a greater chance there is for a pool to have a solved block by a solo miner when CK's pool has around 25PH/s on solo and Kano (where I do have my sticks and r909s) which has a little more than 1.5PH/s.  Meanwhile the entire BTC networks hashrate is 276 EH/s so yeah solo mining a block or even a PPLNS pool has a LOT less of a chance.  It's funny when I mined during 2014 the network hashrate was only 80-110PH/s and back then unless you were someone like KNC, Bitmain, etc. you were NOT solo mining because finding a block was basically impossible.

The other thing I have noticed is that people do call you out on is that your closed source part of the pool software because for all people know you could set payouts to yourself and it continue that way with your "promise to pay it out".  You can trick some but the whole idea of bitcoin maximalist is just trying to get people new and uneducated to jump in and would never know if they got ripped off.  To make money in btc it takes money and lots of it...  To make close to a btc a day like I was doing in 2014 I figured the cost alone without factoring in cost alone to run the amount of power I would need it was getting close to a million alone. 

To be Clear. This pool is 100% Pro Bitcoin pool and aims to serve Bitcoin miners FIRST and foremost.

People like you dilute the word scam by throwing it around so casually. Bitcoin cash no matter my feeling about how it or how  came to be or created is irrelevant. My personal feelings about the coin is also of little importance. What is important is. It’s block reward represents $882 + fees of funding that can help many bitcoin maxamilist miners weather tough financial waters. Help them feed their families and keep the light’s on tell they can solve Bitcoin Blocks. You fancy yourself an intelligent person? Why do you sound so dull witted with most of your post here?

An example:
If a coin  called say “Kanos Pool Can’t Solve A Block” Coin abbreviation KPCSAB and it could be auxMerged mined efficiently  at a rate of $882 per block reward. No matter the silly name and who created it. Still represents a function to serve Bitcoin miners offset operational cost. Bitcoin Cash is here to stay. It is a viable source of funding to offset Bitcoin Miners overhead cost. 

Whats even cooler. If you hate Bitcoin Cash so much mine the dang block and dump it on the market. Just don’t leave money on the table over some misplaced “Bitcoin Maxi high-ground”. Emotions have no place at the table of financial decision making.  Your really showing them by NOT mining the low hanging fruit!! NO your just making yourself a little poorer for every block you do NOT mine. Do you dislike Bitcoin Cash? Ok mine it DUMP it. Pay your electric bill that mines the TRUE Bitcoin. It’s not rocket science.

Now let’s address more of your nonsense…
“Be aware that mining 2 coins detracts from mining one coin. “
“Also as clearly stated in the cgminer README (that most miners use) mining two coins on the same connection is problematic. “

Completely FALSE statement . Might be true when using decades old codebase like cgminer. Might be true when you have a CAN’T do attitude.  We are building shhpool from scratch along with a dynamic mining software capable of handling efficient and game changing Auxpow Merge Mining.  It is so funny how you relics of a long ago bitcoin past keep claiming things are impossible cause YOU could not do it. Your just so scared that when we succeed the world would know what frauds you are and fore pushing your “point of view” for over a decade.  Standing on this platform of “I know everything”. When the facts remain you speak in absolutes.

  A person who speaks in absolutes is asking to be proven wrong and rendered a simpleton. Means a person who leaves the door closed to the possible will never be able to achieve the impossible.  You continually speak in absolutes. Take what you want from that .
You keep coming to my thread here and spouting off bullshit. It is really hard to take you seriously as a pool OP when you have failed to solve a bitcoin block in years. Not just that . Your only function in the bitcoin community seems to be to stir controversy and bully people on this forum. You fancy yourself a developer but your function seems to be a party clown.  What legacy you have left it just be tarnished by your silly little antics to constantly try  to prove your intellect. A smart person never has to say how smart they are or put other people down.  THEY  just are smart and everyone knows it. Take what you want from that statement.

Your biggest line of bullshit is this..
“You can't make your miners find a block, it's purely random, you literally had nothing to do with finding that block except that one of your miners rolled the right number of zero bits. “
This is the statement that really chaps my cheeks. Its just a lazy way of thinking. “probably why Kano has yet to solve a block in years” You can not force a bitcoin block to be solved by your miners CORRECT. You can however innovate new ways to improve their odds instead of waiting around for something to happen.  Bitcoin mining still has secrets to be unlocked. Thankfully for me most of you early-birds gave up along time ago to actually be innovative. You listen to that little voice in your heads that said “not possible” and fed that narrative to the bitcoin community and it has remand unchallenged to this day by you bulling people into being quite.

Be aware that mining 2 coins detracts from mining one coin.
Simple stats: if you spend half your time mining BTC then you have half the chance of finding a BTC block.

This pool is not pro BTC, it's also mining scamcoins.
Aside: scamcoin mining is off topic for this part of the forum.
It also supports that scamcoin, so no idea why the OP is making claims about being pro BTC but getting the miners to also mine scamcoins.

Also as clearly stated in the cgminer README (that most miners use) mining two coins on the same connection is problematic.

I will add that the reason I have for not promoting giving someone a bonus for finding a block on pooled mining is simple.
The majority of miners, who don't find a block, lose out.
You can't make your miners find a block, it's purely random, you literally had nothing to do with finding that block except that one of your miners rolled the right number of zero bits.
So small miners who mostly wont find a block, will be expected here to get half the BTC reward of mining on a pool that doesn't do that.

Thank you so much for the kind words. Means more than you will ever know. My heart and soul is in this venture. I truly want all shhpool miners to succeed.  If shhpool miners  succeed. So do I.

I don't really know what to think about this topic.

On the one hand, nobody can officially say that Pool's OP will pay the blocks, and considering the amounts I understand that some are in doubt.
But for my part, I want to specify that I participated in a small scale to mine the testnet blocks of the pool. OP has of course paid me for them.

I'm willing to take the risk with some BCH blocks, this pool is the only one to offer this payment scheme.
It's really interesting a 50/50 for the block solver and the other pool members. If the pool stays small enough it will be profitable for small miners.

OP seems sincere to me, he may make some technical mistakes but he has the merit to try new things.
I'm glad to see someone finally proposing something different and possibly very smart if it works

Agreed. I am a second generation Bitcoin miner. My father was one of the first people to mine Bitcoin. My reasons are very close to my heart. Funny story but one of my most treasured memories of my father was. He would wear pink noise canceling headphones while in his workshop. Once he noticed the headphones made me laugh . He would dance around all silly to the roar of Bitcoin miners. In his workshop he had walls of GPU’s I was speaking more from a miners point of view. Most would like to see their hashpower actually ROI.

Update:

We are trying to put together a block run for shhpool. Anyone with experience in organizing block runs please DM me here or in Discord. If you help in organizing the run. I will give you my 3% OP fee from each block that is solved during the run. My only goal is to get as many blocks signed and get shhpool miners paid.

Well - Bitcoin for me personally was not just about getting more money than I spent on it… it is more about the principal for me - a censorship resistant means to financial sovereignty, which is more important than maximum profitability. With regard to Smart Mining on ViaBTC - it is NOT merged mining, it allows you to use auto profit switching where the poll will stop mining one and start mining the other if one of them spikes in value / mining difficulty, rendering it substantially more or less profitable than the other. NMC / SYS is legitimate merged mining where you’re accumulating all of the above at the same time.

It's worth mentioning that since BCH is a fork of BTC, the merged-minable coins can also do with BCH just like BTC, you can merge mine namecoin or sys with BCH, namecoin with BTC, but not BCH with BTC using the same "hash".


Actually many modern pools already do that, I know Viabtc does it, Binance does it, those two "I have tried", and I am sure most of them will do the same, they call it"smart mining", you would have to use a specific port/URL for that, and they will do the "profit switching" on their pool, for Viabtc you can actually watch the hashrate chart and see different lines each has it's own color and represents what SHA256 coins you mined.

I did not use "smart mining" long enough to judge its profitability in comparison to mining just BTC, I didn't pull the numbers and made the required steps to get to an accurate answer, but I can say with a rough estimate that it had become pretty useless in the past couple of years. When Viabtc first deployed it, it made a lot of sense, a coin jumps in price, your hash goes there, Viabtc gets that coin, exchanges it for you to BTC, and you get more BTC than having mined BTC directly, but now that many people use it, it got saturated, the profiblabity across all SHA256 coins reach to equilibrium very fast, so fast that hardly anyone is benefiting from it.

The last I will add here is that this really belongs in the more general Development & Technical Discussion area - not here. At least there you would not be multiposting to yourself and may even get someone else interested in it.

What you are trying to do is *not* merged mining. Merged mining is coins that are recorded as part of the main chain, eg namecoin information is recorded as part of the BTC blockchain. As others have said elsewhere that information is stored in the blocks' Coinbase header.

BCH is not part of the BTC chain. Bitmain & their cohorts created it as an independent fork that branched off of the BTC chain. Once they forked then the BTC & BCH blocks began following their own chains with neither having anything to do with the other.

What you are doing is essentially running 2 different pool nodes - one for BTC and one for BCH - with miners connecting to a pool front-end that time-shares sending the miners work from the 2 pool nodes; sometimes the work is for a BTC block, sometimes it is for a BCH block. The miners would not see that happening because unlike other 'follow the profits' algo switching schemes, what you are doing does not force the miner to switch to a different pool. The miner only see the 1 connection to your pool and the work you are sending it. The only way a miner would know that the miner is working on a BCH block would be if the folks look at the miner GUI and take note of the diff being set by your pool or use software to monitor diff and report major changes in it.

This is actually or more accurate example but still just an example:

ShhPool is 100% a Bitcoin focused mining pool. Our primary goal is to mine Bitcoin blocks. That said with the state of Bitcoin difficulty and the fact. Vast amounts of bitcoin miners have become practically obsolete overnight. yes antminers s19 and so on.  A miner is in a difficult position. Some spend fortunes on these miners and are feeling hopeless.

 Most wont come out and say it but the facts remain desperate times come with desperate measure's.   My goal is to offset operational cost with auxpow merge mining of Bitcoin Cash while still going after the main goal. Bitcoin Block reward.  I am at heart a Bitcoin maximalist and dislike altcoins. At the same time. I wont leave money on the table, when so many miners are struggling to keep the lights on while trying to mine Bitcoin.

 In my opinion. I am helping other  Bitcoin maximalist miners not loose their homes and livelihoods due to being  “ Bitcoin maximalist”   . Paying $13-15,000 for an s19 bitcoin miner less than a year ago. That now sells for $800-1500. A lot of miners are in a bad way right now holding over priced paper weights.Thes miners need to stay/mining online for almost a decade to ROI. That is to break even. Not sure about any of you but not trying to do all that work to break even. The point of an investment is to make considerable profits, NOT to break even while doing an obscene amount of work. We are all in Bitcoin mining to make considerably more than we spent right? This is a very stressful time for some Bitcoin miners.

Am I doing all this out of the kindness of my heart? Partly, but NO. Like you. I want to get considerable more for my time/money”. I want to earn. Not scared to come out and say it. I want nice things. For me to make a fortune running a pool. I must make my miners wealthy. I must make my miners millionaires several times over for myself to reach a million.  If you do not trust me. Trust in mutual self interest. What is great for you is good for me. Join the pool or don’t. Life is about choices. Money is the measure of a persons life choices. If you have very little money. Might want to reevaluate your choices. If people want to stand on some moral high ground and leave money on the table “merge mining BCH”  that is their choice. I personally as a  “Bitcoin maximalist” WONT ignore the capitalist in me.

When peoples lights and utility bills are due and Bitcoin mining is literally taking you to the gates of  bankruptcy. Might want to curb your  Bitcoin maximalist high ground and do what is best for yourself and family.

Every second that electric meter is climbing, along with the Bitcoin difficulty. People will lose big without making some tough choices.

In that case this topic belongs in the Altcoins areas -- not here in the BITCOIN ONLY areas.
Just because is sometimes mines BTC does not get around the fact that it also focuses on mining crapcoins....

ShhPool is being rewritten from scratch currently and will NOT be opensource for awhile . One day when funding is no longer an issue. Then might release the source.

Pool is in maintenance mode in preparation for BCH testing.

Hi,

Where is the source code for shhpool? And is the operator fee preset somewhere in the code?

Yes , currently automatic payment in the block solved transaction is not enabled. If we do happen to solve a block. I will be manually paying it out. Right now the pool is under heavy development with the implementation of merge mining Bitcoin  and Bitcoin Cash together. Alot of reworking on the system is taking place. Right now we should consider the pool in main net beta testing still. Think we are running an average of 8-15 T/H right .At that hashrate we could solve one in 500 years. I have mentioned all this to the miners allocating hashpower currently. We talk on discord DM. Join us.. Think our little pool will have some very exciting development in the coming weeks. We have commercial type miners already wanting to take part in what is to come.


 Lucky we have some amazing miners willing to mine shhpool while we are working things out in preparation for merge mining.  Even then we might do manual  payments tell such a time we are comfortable with the payment system.  Every pool you mine on comes with TRUST. Any pool at anytime can change the source to pay themselves in the block solved transaction. My gut feeling is the first payout shhpool does will be a bunch of Bitcoin Cash but we are still focusing on the PRIZE. The Bitcoin block reward. In time as we enrich people with routine payouts and first ever merge mining functionality. Trust will be built. Right now if your uncomfortable with lending me some trust. ShhPool is not for you.