The Buddhist perspective explains Bitcoin's magic perfectly. It's also what makes Bitcoin so hard for most people to grasp. The thing about it is that there is no trust among people, but an agreement between machines; as though something were truly created from nothing. Machines aren't alive and yet a glimmer of it has become visible.
As for MFing Global, I find Jesse's Cafe has provided the greatest level of detail with strong insight. It isn't the first, won't be the last, and has decimated any legitimate functionality in traditional western markets for a long time to come.
Topic: shit, shit, shit (Read 8067 times)
Regulated, accountable markets lend a veil of legitimacy. I would compare it to wikipedia. Before, everyone took what was written by "experts" in textbooks and encyclopedias as gospel. We all know it is impossible to completely avoid bias and misinterpreted/incomplete information. If you read wikipedia articles, this is blatantly obvious, you cannot ignore it. I prefer this to the pretend reality dependent upon trust.
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In my opinion, the best way to value Bitcoin is to think of it as a publicly owned company. Right now, there are...
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In my opinion, the best way to value Bitcoin is to think of it as a publicly owned company. Right now, there are...
...
That's nice analogy in theory, except Bitcoin is not traded like a publicly-owned company.
When you invest in shares of Western Union, you are doing so in a proven, viable business that is
financially regulated, and accountable to shareholders.
Like MF Global?
When you "invest" in Bitcoins you are entering a world of unregulated if not somewhat nefarious
manipulators, out-of-control margin "gamblers', and over-exuberant traders who are speculating
Bitcoin out of existence with parabolic rallies, pump-n-dump crashes, and Bitcoinica starfish nonsense.
Probably the most important factor in the adoption of Bitcoins: a stable trading price. And when
is that going to happen?
manipulators, out-of-control margin "gamblers', and over-exuberant traders who are speculating
Bitcoin out of existence with parabolic rallies, pump-n-dump crashes, and Bitcoinica starfish nonsense.
Probably the most important factor in the adoption of Bitcoins: a stable trading price. And when
is that going to happen?
To the point I alluded to in my smart-ass rhetorical question, another way to skin the cat (or for the cat to be skinned) would be if the 'traditional' markets start to fail. I don't rule that out, and in fact, I am anticipating it to some degree. To what degree I do not really know, but if people start to feel like they are being bent over and the regulatory and enforcement agencies are not looking out for them, the mathematical certainties of Bitcoin may start to look attractive in spite of the volatility which it exhibits.
I do believe that the goal of the MF Global take-down was, in part, to establish in case law certain features which were introduced into legislation along with the bankruptcy reforms were put into place circa 2005...just in time for the housing bust funny enough. As I understand things (derived from reading non-mainstream ravings) part of this legislation involved a shuffling in how creditors line up to take haircuts when financial organizations fail.
http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=198650
A Buddhist may argue it would still all be based on illusion, but then again, so is every other market in their view.
I thought that covered it. 
Yes the value in bitcoins is mostly driven by speculation and hope, but those dreams have the potential to transform into reality.
Just think about how the price of a coin is currently determined. People just place bids and asks according to information about where other people are placing their bids and asks
That means the price of bitcoins is non zero as a result of dependent origination (a Buddhist might say). The bids and asks support each other like the two sides of an arch bridge, essentially creating a stable structure out of two opposing forces. This kind of interaction is why it is possible for value in bitcoins to arise out of nothing. Without being backed so to speak.
Just think about how the price of a coin is currently determined. People just place bids and asks according to information about where other people are placing their bids and asks
That means the price of bitcoins is non zero as a result of dependent origination (a Buddhist might say). The bids and asks support each other like the two sides of an arch bridge, essentially creating a stable structure out of two opposing forces. This kind of interaction is why it is possible for value in bitcoins to arise out of nothing. Without being backed so to speak.
Pratītyasamutpāda
bitcoin Buddhism?
~ sitting in lotus position now ~
Yes the value in bitcoins is mostly driven by speculation and hope, but those dreams have the potential to transform into reality.
Just think about how the price of a coin is currently determined. People just place bids and asks according to information about where other people are placing their bids and asks
That means the price of bitcoins is non zero as a result of dependent origination (a Buddhist might say). The bids and asks support each other like the two sides of an arch bridge, essentially creating a stable structure out of two opposing forces. This kind of interaction is why it is possible for value in bitcoins to arise out of nothing. Without being backed so to speak.
Just think about how the price of a coin is currently determined. People just place bids and asks according to information about where other people are placing their bids and asks
That means the price of bitcoins is non zero as a result of dependent origination (a Buddhist might say). The bids and asks support each other like the two sides of an arch bridge, essentially creating a stable structure out of two opposing forces. This kind of interaction is why it is possible for value in bitcoins to arise out of nothing. Without being backed so to speak.
Pratītyasamutpāda
bitcoin Buddhism?
Bitcoin price is an illusion that only stands because we all chose to believe in it. However, if we maintain the illusion long enough, the Bitcoin economy will develop and we will transition to a fluid, stable currency. A Buddhist may argue it would still all be based on illusion, but then again, so is every other market in their view.
Yes the value in bitcoins is mostly driven by speculation and hope, but those dreams have the potential to transform into reality.
Just think about how the price of a coin is currently determined. People just place bids and asks according to information about where other people are placing their bids and asks
That means the price of bitcoins is non zero as a result of dependent origination (a Buddhist might say). The bids and asks support each other like the two sides of an arch bridge, essentially creating a stable structure out of two opposing forces. This kind of interaction is why it is possible for value in bitcoins to arise out of nothing. Without being backed so to speak.
Just think about how the price of a coin is currently determined. People just place bids and asks according to information about where other people are placing their bids and asks
That means the price of bitcoins is non zero as a result of dependent origination (a Buddhist might say). The bids and asks support each other like the two sides of an arch bridge, essentially creating a stable structure out of two opposing forces. This kind of interaction is why it is possible for value in bitcoins to arise out of nothing. Without being backed so to speak.
Pratītyasamutpāda
bitcoin Buddhism?
Yes the value in bitcoins is mostly driven by speculation and hope, but those dreams have the potential to transform into reality.
Just think about how the price of a coin is currently determined. People just place bids and asks according to information about where other people are placing their bids and asks
That means the price of bitcoins is non zero as a result of dependent origination (a Buddhist might say). The bids and asks support each other like the two sides of an arch bridge, essentially creating a stable structure out of two opposing forces. This kind of interaction is why it is possible for value in bitcoins to arise out of nothing. Without being backed so to speak.
Just think about how the price of a coin is currently determined. People just place bids and asks according to information about where other people are placing their bids and asks
That means the price of bitcoins is non zero as a result of dependent origination (a Buddhist might say). The bids and asks support each other like the two sides of an arch bridge, essentially creating a stable structure out of two opposing forces. This kind of interaction is why it is possible for value in bitcoins to arise out of nothing. Without being backed so to speak.
Pratītyasamutpāda
Yes the value in bitcoins is mostly driven by speculation and hope, but those dreams have the potential to transform into reality.
Just think about how the price of a coin is currently determined. People just place bids and asks according to information about where other people are placing their bids and asks
That means the price of bitcoins is non zero as a result of dependent origination (a Buddhist might say). The bids and asks support each other like the two sides of an arch bridge, essentially creating a stable structure out of two opposing forces. This kind of interaction is why it is possible for value in bitcoins to arise out of nothing. Without being backed so to speak.
Just think about how the price of a coin is currently determined. People just place bids and asks according to information about where other people are placing their bids and asks
That means the price of bitcoins is non zero as a result of dependent origination (a Buddhist might say). The bids and asks support each other like the two sides of an arch bridge, essentially creating a stable structure out of two opposing forces. This kind of interaction is why it is possible for value in bitcoins to arise out of nothing. Without being backed so to speak.
YOU back Bitcoin.. That's probably the main reason the exchange rate is so unstable right now..
People are on the fence and I don't blame them...
Mix that in with a bunch of newb traders and a few sharks, and you got the most one of the most volatile games I have ever seen in my life.
People are on the fence and I don't blame them...
Mix that in with a bunch of newb traders and a few sharks, and you got the most one of the most volatile games I have ever seen in my life.
+1
"Check yo self before you wreck yo self"
What a shame. How can I sell the concept of Bitcoins to my friends when I honestly tell them
they could lose their USD value overnight?
You say: "Either you lose a couple $100, or you get potentially humungous returns."
Bitcoin can only go one of two ways.
Either it goes huge, and the dream is a reality ($100,000 coins). - This is entirely possible based on simple mathematics, and (again) full adoption becoming a "reality".
OR
It goes bust, and turns out to be nothing more than a clever ponzi scheme.
One thing never changes.
Bitcoin is only useful, because people choose to use it.
Now based on your perception of life and own self value.
This can be one of the most empowering things you've ever heard, or the most demotivating reason to ever get into BTC.
That's why Bitcoin really is so beautiful. It really is up to YOU whether we embark on this beautiful dream, or we crash land right back to "reality".
YOU back Bitcoin.. That's probably the main reason the exchange rate is so unstable right now..
People are on the fence and I don't blame them...
Mix that in with a bunch of newb traders and a few well-funded sharks, and you got the most one of the most volatile games I have ever seen in my life.
Gold standard for the USD was implemented in 1900. Before that there was a bimetallic backing for the dollar. This might sound silly but I'd like to think of this as the various currencies you can cash out for with Bitcoin. As gold and silver prices fluctuated the ratio was always different for how much silver or how much gold you could get. Once they fixed the standard amount of gold a dollar was worth it remained stable (of course, until 1913, when they ran out of gold to back it and it again entered bitcoin-like instability)
If, for example, Mt. Gox promised you could get $6USD for every bitcoin and (no other currency, no arbitrage possible) it would certainly fix the problem of these huge up and downswings. Of course they would have no reason to do this because they make money on volatility as does almost everyone in the market. Bitcoin does not have stability in mind - unlike the US government did when creating the dollar. This is one of the problems with having an international currency with no banks or government to protect it. Sure, there are benefits, but there are also many flaws and there is a reason why most currencies are and will always be safer than bitcoin. They will never be as fun, or as profitable to trade, though.
If, for example, Mt. Gox promised you could get $6USD for every bitcoin and (no other currency, no arbitrage possible) it would certainly fix the problem of these huge up and downswings. Of course they would have no reason to do this because they make money on volatility as does almost everyone in the market. Bitcoin does not have stability in mind - unlike the US government did when creating the dollar. This is one of the problems with having an international currency with no banks or government to protect it. Sure, there are benefits, but there are also many flaws and there is a reason why most currencies are and will always be safer than bitcoin. They will never be as fun, or as profitable to trade, though.
Thanks for the info... as for a MtGox peg, eventually the market would run them out of funds on one side, then the market would move past them and they'd be on the losing side. You can't peg, even the US government "ran out of gold to back it".
Backed at $1 != pegged at $1
We have something better than banks and governments. We have a community of people who are working together to see Bitcoin succeed. Eventually the real bitcoin holders will outnumber the margin gamblers, you just have to be patient.
+1This is something that always helps me think on the positive side of things, it's undoubtedly true that things will get better as Bitcoin gets bigger and more widely used. I also agree with Vandroiy that it's important to be a bit more conservative. People in this forum tend to heavily overhype at times and then at other times they do the exact opposite and give an overdose of FUD. I admit I've been guilty of the former at times but never of the latter
Gold standard for the USD was implemented in 1900. Before that there was a bimetallic backing for the dollar. This might sound silly but I'd like to think of this as the various currencies you can cash out for with Bitcoin. As gold and silver prices fluctuated the ratio was always different for how much silver or how much gold you could get. Once they fixed the standard amount of gold a dollar was worth it remained stable (of course, until 1913, when they ran out of gold to back it and it again entered bitcoin-like instability)
If, for example, Mt. Gox promised you could get $6USD for every bitcoin and (no other currency, no arbitrage possible) it would certainly fix the problem of these huge up and downswings. Of course they would have no reason to do this because they make money on volatility as does almost everyone in the market. Bitcoin does not have stability in mind - unlike the US government did when creating the dollar. This is one of the problems with having an international currency with no banks or government to protect it. Sure, there are benefits, but there are also many flaws and there is a reason why most currencies are and will always be safer than bitcoin. They will never be as fun, or as profitable to trade, though.
If, for example, Mt. Gox promised you could get $6USD for every bitcoin and (no other currency, no arbitrage possible) it would certainly fix the problem of these huge up and downswings. Of course they would have no reason to do this because they make money on volatility as does almost everyone in the market. Bitcoin does not have stability in mind - unlike the US government did when creating the dollar. This is one of the problems with having an international currency with no banks or government to protect it. Sure, there are benefits, but there are also many flaws and there is a reason why most currencies are and will always be safer than bitcoin. They will never be as fun, or as profitable to trade, though.
Thanks for the info... as for a MtGox peg, eventually the market would run them out of funds on one side, then the market would move past them and they'd be on the losing side. You can't peg, even the US government "ran out of gold to back it".
Backed at $1 != pegged at $1
When you "invest" in Bitcoins you are entering a world of unregulated if not somewhat nefarious
manipulators, out-of-control margin "gamblers', and over-exuberant traders who are speculating
Bitcoin out of existence with parabolic rallies, pump-n-dump crashes, and Bitcoinica starfish nonsense.
Yes, I believe you have correctly identified the reason why Bitcoin is trading at 1/100th of it's most established legitimate competitor in spite of being far superior.manipulators, out-of-control margin "gamblers', and over-exuberant traders who are speculating
Bitcoin out of existence with parabolic rallies, pump-n-dump crashes, and Bitcoinica starfish nonsense.
I had been day-trading in Bitcoins like most everyone else. Now working on looking for
longer trends and actually investing in it. Need to appreciate the long traders a little more,
who are inBTC for the longer haul.
You can do both. Spread your BTC around. Gamble, trade, invest, donate, spend... Do it all. longer trends and actually investing in it. Need to appreciate the long traders a little more,
who are inBTC for the longer haul.
This is one of the problems with having an international currency with no banks or government to protect it. Sure, there are benefits, but there are also many flaws and there is a reason why most currencies are and will always be safer than bitcoin.
We have something better than banks and governments. We have a community of people who are working together to see Bitcoin succeed. Eventually the real bitcoin holders will outnumber the margin gamblers, you just have to be patient. Gold standard for the USD was implemented in 1900. Before that there was a bimetallic backing for the dollar. This might sound silly but I'd like to think of this as the various currencies you can cash out for with Bitcoin. As gold and silver prices fluctuated the ratio was always different for how much silver or how much gold you could get. Once they fixed the standard amount of gold a dollar was worth it remained stable (of course, until 1913, when they ran out of gold to back it and it again entered bitcoin-like instability)
If, for example, Mt. Gox promised you could get $6USD for every bitcoin and (no other currency, no arbitrage possible) it would certainly fix the problem of these huge up and downswings. Of course they would have no reason to do this because they make money on volatility as does almost everyone in the market. Bitcoin does not have stability in mind - unlike the US government did when creating the dollar. This is one of the problems with having an international currency with no banks or government to protect it. Sure, there are benefits, but there are also many flaws and there is a reason why most currencies are and will always be safer than bitcoin. They will never be as fun, or as profitable to trade, though.
If, for example, Mt. Gox promised you could get $6USD for every bitcoin and (no other currency, no arbitrage possible) it would certainly fix the problem of these huge up and downswings. Of course they would have no reason to do this because they make money on volatility as does almost everyone in the market. Bitcoin does not have stability in mind - unlike the US government did when creating the dollar. This is one of the problems with having an international currency with no banks or government to protect it. Sure, there are benefits, but there are also many flaws and there is a reason why most currencies are and will always be safer than bitcoin. They will never be as fun, or as profitable to trade, though.
Thanks for the info... as for a MtGox peg, eventually the market would run them out of funds on one side, then the market would move past them and they'd be on the losing side. You can't peg, even the US government "ran out of gold to back it".
Gold standard for the USD was implemented in 1900. Before that there was a bimetallic backing for the dollar. This might sound silly but I'd like to think of this as the various currencies you can cash out for with Bitcoin. As gold and silver prices fluctuated the ratio was always different for how much silver or how much gold you could get. Once they fixed the standard amount of gold a dollar was worth it remained stable (of course, until 1913, when they ran out of gold to back it and it again entered bitcoin-like instability)
If, for example, Mt. Gox promised you could get $6USD for every bitcoin and (no other currency, no arbitrage possible) it would certainly fix the problem of these huge up and downswings. Of course they would have no reason to do this because they make money on volatility as does almost everyone in the market. Bitcoin does not have stability in mind - unlike the US government did when creating the dollar. This is one of the problems with having an international currency with no banks or government to protect it. Sure, there are benefits, but there are also many flaws and there is a reason why most currencies are and will always be safer than bitcoin. They will never be as fun, or as profitable to trade, though.
If, for example, Mt. Gox promised you could get $6USD for every bitcoin and (no other currency, no arbitrage possible) it would certainly fix the problem of these huge up and downswings. Of course they would have no reason to do this because they make money on volatility as does almost everyone in the market. Bitcoin does not have stability in mind - unlike the US government did when creating the dollar. This is one of the problems with having an international currency with no banks or government to protect it. Sure, there are benefits, but there are also many flaws and there is a reason why most currencies are and will always be safer than bitcoin. They will never be as fun, or as profitable to trade, though.
Thanks for the info... as for a MtGox peg, eventually the market would run them out of funds on one side, then the market would move past them and they'd be on the losing side. You can't peg, even the US government "ran out of gold to back it".
I think it would suffice if there weren't people trying to hype the price up to whatever the next USD value target is moments after they buy BTC.
If people would keep the future-huge-value speculation low and speculate on a more reasonable scale, we could get this stable in no time. But noooo, "Next stop, $8!" "No way we'll stay in single digits" "pah, single or double, triple digits is the future!!!1"
Nice to be enthusiastic, but calm down, there's a very long and very bumpy road ahead.
If people would keep the future-huge-value speculation low and speculate on a more reasonable scale, we could get this stable in no time. But noooo, "Next stop, $8!" "No way we'll stay in single digits" "pah, single or double, triple digits is the future!!!1"
Nice to be enthusiastic, but calm down, there's a very long and very bumpy road ahead.
Still waiting for the value to drop way more. Wanna buy me a whole load of them 
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