Shops/stores will lose money when Bitcoin price falls

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Quote from: mk4 on January 16, 2018, 10:15:58 PM

The thing is, most shops that accept bitcoin implement systems that automatically converts the bitcoin to FIAT at point of sale, so they're pretty much unaffected by these huge price swings.

I agree with you mate, i actually do the same thing, if i'm also the owner of a shop that accepts bitcoin, then i don't want also to store bitcoins in a long period of time. I aslo implement that system that automatically converts bitcoin to fiat, to gain more profits and to prevent of losing money.

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Quote from: clrpod on January 18, 2018, 04:55:08 PM

I don't think bitcoin will ever be used in that way, it can either replace a currency in a country entirely in which case the price fluctuations would only effect transactions outside their country, or it can be used in such a way where it is converted to fiat immediately at the time of the transaction.

You are far too fiat centric, which to a certain extent is understandable right now, but there might at some point be a time where people don't calculate in fiat terms anymore, but just in satoshis. At that point fiat will be tied to Bitcoin, and not vice versa. Bitcoin is a completely new asset class with the potential of surpassing the current major traditional assets. And yes, it may never turn out to happen, but at least it's something that I will be happily looking forward to. Bitcoin for me isn't just a an investment tool, it's a whole new road to freedom.

phr0stbyt3

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It cant always effect the store if big hypermarkets like walmart or target accepts bitcoin they can easily keep hold of it even if the price falls but for small stores who works on credit basis for them accepting bitcoin is really risky , if they have sufficient amount of cash flow accepting bitcoin and holding can generate more profit

BitcoinPanther

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Quote from: Nubitcoinerr on January 17, 2018, 07:04:52 AM

This is not true. Nobody spends Bitcoin, period. If they do it is for illegal goods or small purchases. When bitcoin is falling, that's when some people might actually spend bitcoin because they're going to cash out anyway.

How are you sure that no one is spending Bitcoin? I have used bitcoin to paid for a lot of stuff online. Buying domain and several things. I even pay my bills from bitcoin. Even the process of encashing is the same way as spending bitcoin because you buy fiat currency with Bitcoin . Sounds weird? But you know it is true..

Anyways, I believe merchant have safety precaution about this by simply converting bitcoin to fiat currency the moment they received it as payment. Meaning there is no loss or gain from the transaction except the fee.

magneto

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Quote from: First77 on January 16, 2018, 10:08:51 PM

Bitcoin is at $10,000 and shops/stores gets $50,000 payments in Bitcoin and after that if Bitcoin price falls to $5,000.

Shops/stores will lose $25,000. Will people take Bitcoin payments for goods and services Huh

?

I don't think that you know how shops work these days at all. Since bitcoin is still only in its infancy, most shops are opting to convert their bitcoins to fiat as soon they receive it through companies such as bitpay. That way, bitcoin volatility's effect on their business profitability is close to zero.

In my opinion in the long term bitcoin will still be gradually be going up as it is a store of value, and fiat will continue to depreciate in real buying power. If you ignore the short term noise, then you'll see that bitcoin has only been increasing exponentially for the past 8 years.

Yes, volatility is an issue right now, but that's what you get with a coin that has no outside influence. And volatility will get better as time goes on.

clrpod

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Quote from: First77 on January 16, 2018, 10:08:51 PM

Bitcoin is at $10,000 and shops/stores gets $50,000 payments in Bitcoin and after that if Bitcoin price falls to $5,000.

Shops/stores will lose $25,000. Will people take Bitcoin payments for goods and services Huh

?

It's one of the biggest stumbling blocks for bitcoin, to be used in that way it needs stability. I don't think bitcoin will ever be used in that way, it can either replace a currency in a country entirely in which case the price fluctuations would only effect transactions outside their country, or it can be used in such a way where it is converted to fiat immediately at the time of the transaction.

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Quote from: First77 on January 16, 2018, 10:08:51 PM

Bitcoin is at $10,000 and shops/stores gets $50,000 payments in Bitcoin and after that if Bitcoin price falls to $5,000.

Shops/stores will lose $25,000. Will people take Bitcoin payments for goods and services Huh

?

This would be on case to case basis if a certain merchant would decide to keep those bitcoins to be reserved on their own wallet or would rather decide once been recieve they would convert it to fiat. If they would decide to store bitcoin then they will really got affected on price volatility this is one of the reason why merchants would really hesitate to accept bitcoin because of unstable price movements but somehow anytime they can able to get rid of it by direct conversion.

vintages

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Well, irrespective of the fact we all aim to have bitcoin and use it as a daily means of transaction, I still tell people that it of no use, using bitcoin for transaction purposes because it is not stable cause it sometimes dip and sometimes pump and also because the transaction fee is also high. Bitcoin is best for investment. Since the shop or stores wants to make of of it, they should enjoy the flow.

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Quote from: First77 on January 16, 2018, 10:08:51 PM

Bitcoin is at $10,000 and shops/stores gets $50,000 payments in Bitcoin and after that if Bitcoin price falls to $5,000.

Shops/stores will lose $25,000. Will people take Bitcoin payments for goods and services Huh

?

As said by others, most shops don't get Bitcoin. The payment processors do. And in my experience they change the price in Bitcoin really depending on market price, to keep the price in fiat unchanged.

The payment processor has a quite big margin of profit, margin that means more profit when Bitcoin is rising and a small profit or even a loss if Bitcoin is falling.
It all depends on the size of the margin, how fast the price of Bitcoin is changing at the moment of your purchase and the payment processor's policy on selling (if they sell, how fast do they sell) of the Bitcoin.
If they are smart (and I guess they are) they have funds on certain exchanges and as soon as you do the purchase, they trigger the sale on the market. The value of the deposits on the exchanges may decrease, but that's not lost, that's an investment and their business will continue to go on.

Imho there's slim chance the really big payment processors will go out of business because of Bitcoin fall. They earned a lot when it was growing so they can easily cover the very few transactions they may have done at a loss.

Aamir1

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Quote from: Daveeoff on January 18, 2018, 12:26:24 PM

I suppose most shops exchange BTC to fiat instantly thru the payment platform they use so they can avoid losing money like this. I might be wrong tho.

You wouldn't need to say that you might be wrong if you cared to read the comments before yours where it is said I think 2 or more times that shops/stores use such payment platforms which actually convert the Bitcoin to fiat right after they are transacted to it.

And OP, shops/stores don't store Bitcoins like us normal people to get profit out of them. If a shop/store accepts Bitcoin, it is for the sake of their customers, but not for the profit they might get out of Bitcoin. And as Pursuer said, what if they don't convert the Bitcoin they get directly to fiat, and the price instead of dropping, rises higher? So there are possibilities of getting both profit and loss in storing Bitcoins and for sure the shops/stores accepting Bitcoin know all these things better than us, so they won't take such risks at all.

Daveeoff

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I suppose most shops exchange BTC to fiat instantly thru the payment platform they use so they can avoid losing money like this. I might be wrong tho.

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Quote from: First77 on January 16, 2018, 11:00:46 PM

Quote from: mk4 on January 16, 2018, 10:15:58 PM

The thing is, most shops that accept bitcoin implement systems that automatically converts the bitcoin to FIAT at point of sale, so they're pretty much unaffected by these huge price swings.

But then gold and silver as payments at shops/stores is more safer

You're funny LOL, so while shopping online you expect to pay with gold? And to the merchant "The gold is in the vault at my bank go there" Or while at the supermarket to buy a fish you say to the cashier "hold on, I pay with gold, I have only 1 kilo in my pocket, deal with it" "no problem sir, I have all acid needed to make the test"

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Quote from: mk4 on January 17, 2018, 08:41:19 AM

Quote from: Nubitcoinerr on January 17, 2018, 07:04:52 AM

This is not true. Nobody spends Bitcoin, period.

That's a bullshit claim. You think payment systems like Bitpay, eCommerce sites like Purse.io, big companies like Steam, etc. would actually accept bitcoin payments if there was no one using it? It's not rocket science.

unfortunately some people thing that just because they have never used bitcoin that means nobody else uses it either
you said a very good example and let me give some numbers to give the readers some feeling about how things are.
according to BitPay blog the merchants that are using their system have received $110M+ per month

First77

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Quote from: mk4 on January 17, 2018, 08:41:19 AM

Well, goodluck cutting up your gold and silver to the appropriate ounce for your shop payments mate. Also, goodluck paying online stores/services with your gold/silver. I mean, think about it first before stating your counter-argument. Roll Eyes

What happened ?? Huh

mk4

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Quote from: First77 on January 16, 2018, 11:00:46 PM

Quote from: mk4 on January 16, 2018, 10:15:58 PM

The thing is, most shops that accept bitcoin implement systems that automatically converts the bitcoin to FIAT at point of sale, so they're pretty much unaffected by these huge price swings.

But then gold and silver as payments at shops/stores is more safer

Well, goodluck cutting up your gold and silver to the appropriate ounce for your shop payments mate. Also, goodluck paying online stores/services with your gold/silver. I mean, think about it first before stating your counter-argument. Roll Eyes

Quote from: Nubitcoinerr on January 17, 2018, 07:04:52 AM

This is not true. Nobody spends Bitcoin, period.

That's a bullshit claim. You think payment systems like Bitpay, eCommerce sites like Purse.io, big companies like Steam, etc. would actually accept bitcoin payments if there was no one using it? It's not rocket science.

Quote from: Nubitcoinerr on January 17, 2018, 07:04:52 AM

If they do it is for illegal goods or small purchases.

Yeah, because using bitcoin for small purchases is a very good idea. It's pretty much like what a person that doesn't use bitcoin will say.

Nubitcoinerr

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This is not true. Nobody spends Bitcoin, period. If they do it is for illegal goods or small purchases. When bitcoin is falling, that's when some people might actually spend bitcoin because they're going to cash out anyway.

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first of all why didn't you care about shops/stores before? why the sudden interest in what they are losing?
lets say a shop/store got paid $50,000 in bitcoin on 2017-12-1 when price was $9000 and price went to $20,000 on 2017-12-17 which means they made $111,111 out of their sale which is $61,111 pure profit in 2 weeks. so where were you when they were making this ridiculous amount of profit all year long last year?

secondly shops/stores know what they are getting into, you don't need to worry about them. they either accept the risk/reward of accepting bitcoin and do it like the hundred thousands of them that are doing so, or they use a payment processor like BitPay which pays them in fiat immediately and they don't even get bitcoin. risk eliminated.

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Quote from: First77 on January 16, 2018, 11:00:46 PM

Quote from: mk4 on January 16, 2018, 10:15:58 PM

The thing is, most shops that accept bitcoin implement systems that automatically converts the bitcoin to FIAT at point of sale, so they're pretty much unaffected by these huge price swings.

But then gold and silver as payments at shops/stores is more safer

Lol what? If you want a safe option, why look further than fiat? Fiat should be just as safe if you're in a country with a healthy economy.

What mjglqw was trying to say was that most companies which accept Bitcoin use payment services like Bitpay, which accepts their clients' Bitcoin, converts it to fiat, then sends the fiat to the companies (well that's one of their payment schemes, at least). It's all digital so it's a pretty easy process, and doing something like this with gold or silver, which are physical, would be a logistical nightmare.

First77

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Quote from: mk4 on January 16, 2018, 10:15:58 PM

The thing is, most shops that accept bitcoin implement systems that automatically converts the bitcoin to FIAT at point of sale, so they're pretty much unaffected by these huge price swings.

But then gold and silver as payments at shops/stores is more safer

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Quote from: First77 on January 16, 2018, 10:08:51 PM

Bitcoin is at $10,000 and shops/stores gets $50,000 payments in Bitcoin and after that if Bitcoin price falls to $5,000.

Shops/stores will lose $25,000. Will people take Bitcoin payments for goods and services Huh

?

Due to Bitcoin's nature inflation can occur at any time of the year. As long as those stores hold their Bitcoin, they will not lose anything. There has been rapid high and low movements in each crypto since their start but, that doesn't make them non-useful as a way of payment.

Think in a positive way, think that what happens when the price of Bitcoin reaches $20k instead of going down to $5k? The store owner would've made almost 100% in profits rather than losing a penny. It all depends on timing when you're into Bitcoin and other cryptoes. If the shop owner's capital is enough that he/she manages to hold his/her Bitcoins at $10k then I assure you that he/she would make many times of the capital in profits when its price gets high aside from the revenue that he/she made form the sold items at his/her shop.

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