Should casual users avoid the Satoshi client? - page 2.

CurbsideProphet

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Quote from: Zomdifros on February 19, 2013, 02:43:55 PM

Quote from: kokojie on February 19, 2013, 12:52:37 PM

Quote from: hazek on February 19, 2013, 12:28:30 PM

Quote from: Gavin Andresen on February 19, 2013, 12:05:15 PM

(because a hacked blockchain.info could feed you evil Javascript,...

Their browser addon eliminates that risk, no?

yes, but not everyone uses it.

There is still the risk on blockchain.info that you have a keylogger on your computer and your backup file gets stolen. The ultimate solution will be a bitcoin account which is insured by your bank, like normal bank accounts.

I highly suggest using two factor authentication. This greatly diminishes the chances of your account being hacked and is available from Blockchain.info (amongst other sites). As many have suggested, I use the Blockchain wallet for day to day transactions and a paper wallet for "savings." I have no patience to download the blockchain and keep it constantly synced.

TheButterZone

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Quote from: casascius on February 19, 2013, 01:14:55 PM

Paper wallets are great because they are an extension of the base classes "TangibleObject" and "PieceOfPaper" (two objects that enjoy high compatibility with human minds) while adding the ability to store bitcoins at a very low cost.

With BIP38 two-factor paper wallets, one can enjoy encrypted paper wallets without having to produce them themselves, but also without any risk that the person who produced them will be able to steal their funds. This creates a lot of possibilities for secure storage that are also grandma-compatible. Anyone who can operate a copy machine or a ballpoint pen can confidently secure their own bitcoins against snooping, fire, theft, and even their own mortality, without much difficulty.

If they're good enough for Paris Hilton to store her bitcoins, they're good enough for anybody!

Have to agree. I use an offline copy of the brainwallet.org GitHub source and don't have tons of addresses to manage. I suppose if I did, I would want serious software, but not care as much about bloat as grandma, because at that point I would be using more advanced features anyway.

Zomdifros

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Quote from: kokojie on February 19, 2013, 12:52:37 PM

Quote from: hazek on February 19, 2013, 12:28:30 PM

Quote from: Gavin Andresen on February 19, 2013, 12:05:15 PM

(because a hacked blockchain.info could feed you evil Javascript,...

Their browser addon eliminates that risk, no?

yes, but not everyone uses it.

There is still the risk on blockchain.info that you have a keylogger on your computer and your backup file gets stolen. The ultimate solution will be a bitcoin account which is insured by your bank, like normal bank accounts.

casascius

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The Casascius 1oz 10BTC Silver Round (w/ Gold B)

Paper wallets are great because they are an extension of the base classes "TangibleObject" and "PieceOfPaper" (two objects that enjoy high compatibility with human minds) while adding the ability to store bitcoins at a very low cost.

With BIP38 two-factor paper wallets, one can enjoy encrypted paper wallets without having to produce them themselves, but also without any risk that the person who produced them will be able to steal their funds. This creates a lot of possibilities for secure storage that are also grandma-compatible. Anyone who can operate a copy machine or a ballpoint pen can confidently secure their own bitcoins against snooping, fire, theft, and even their own mortality, without much difficulty.

If they're good enough for Paris Hilton to store her bitcoins, they're good enough for anybody!

kokojie

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Quote from: hazek on February 19, 2013, 12:28:30 PM

Quote from: Gavin Andresen on February 19, 2013, 12:05:15 PM

(because a hacked blockchain.info could feed you evil Javascript,...

Their browser addon eliminates that risk, no?

yes, but not everyone uses it.

Gabi

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The problem about the satoshi client is that it is NOT newbie friendly. It forces you to download 6GB or more of blockchain and then have an interface wich is not exactly friendly

hazek

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Quote from: Gavin Andresen on February 19, 2013, 12:05:15 PM

(because a hacked blockchain.info could feed you evil Javascript,...

Their browser addon eliminates that risk, no?

HorseRider

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Quote from: Gavin Andresen on February 19, 2013, 12:05:15 PM

I consider paper wallets a fair solution, not a great one.

I feel interested. I will research into this, thank you. Anyone can tell me where I can find the best practice for the paper wallets? The slow blockchain download process has already cost me 1 BTC fine interest.

I have bought a 200 usd computer with a Atom CPU and 500GB hard drive to serve as a dedicate computer for the armory online client. I will kept the computer running 24/7. Is there anyone else who do the same as me?

Gavin Andresen

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I think casual users should avoid the Satoshi client. Gigabytes of blockchain data is not user-friendly, and we've done a lousy job of making it hard for users to lose their keys.

I think the something like the blockchain.info web wallet or Electrum is a good choice for long-term storage; you keep control over your private keys, and are exposed to possible theft risk only when you make a transaction (because a hacked blockchain.info could feed you evil Javascript, or a hacked Electrum download server could feed you an evil executable). The chances that you will be one of the first customers who make a transaction after they were hacked, before they took their site offline to recover from the hack, are pretty small if you are only making a couple of transactions per month.

I'm also assuming that a casual user isn't storing thousands of bitcoins. I don't think we have great solutions for casual users with thousands of bitcoins yet (I consider paper wallets a fair solution, not a great one).

jerfelix

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Quote from: jgarzik on February 19, 2013, 11:50:32 AM

Quote from: cbeast on February 19, 2013, 11:08:07 AM

With the blockchain bloating, I'm concerned about people that created wallets with the Satoshi client to purchase bitcoins and then just made backups of the wallet file. If they don't access the wallet file for many years, how will they load the wallet again if the blockchain swells? Should they be warned against using this client for long term storage?

One would think, if you want long term storage, the Satoshi client would be the best choice (or perhaps Armory, which uses the Satoshi client). For long term storage you can afford to wait for network sync.

If you want lower security with instant access, one can use a web wallet. But move your bitcoins off a centralized website as soon as possible...

For "long term storage", I'd recommend a paper wallet from bitaddress.org.

Zomdifros

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I recommend the Blockchain wallet to new users. It's much more user friendly, has more features, looks better and is safer to due the option of using two-factor authentication and automated backups. I regard the Satoshi client as something for enthusiasts.

jgarzik

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Quote from: cbeast on February 19, 2013, 11:08:07 AM

With the blockchain bloating, I'm concerned about people that created wallets with the Satoshi client to purchase bitcoins and then just made backups of the wallet file. If they don't access the wallet file for many years, how will they load the wallet again if the blockchain swells? Should they be warned against using this client for long term storage?

One would think, if you want long term storage, the Satoshi client would be the best choice (or perhaps Armory, which uses the Satoshi client). For long term storage you can afford to wait for network sync.

If you want lower security with instant access, one can use a web wallet. But move your bitcoins off a centralized website as soon as possible...

btcven

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AFAIK wallet.dat files can be imported to some bitcoin clients.

I don't recommend Bitcoin-qt to new users due to the non instant access.

cbeast

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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

With the blockchain bloating, I'm concerned about people that created wallets with the Satoshi client to purchase bitcoins and then just made backups of the wallet file. If they don't access the wallet file for many years, how will they load the wallet again if the blockchain swells? Should they be warned against using this client for long term storage?

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