Should every newbie have a limit in the bounty of social media?

_BlackStar

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Quote from: tranthidung on October 05, 2021, 10:56:51 AM

If newbies simply read and answer questions if they can help other members on this amazing forum, nobody think of them with positive thoughts.

They suddenly join Meta or Beginners & Help with their Guides, it would raise suspicious questions on what are their real purposes when joining the forum and whether they are real newbies.

Real newbies don't make guides or join Meta board that is the most active board about merit distribution.

As a user who is very good at processing forum statistics then I'm sure you have a fair amount of experience judging newbies in this forum. Their post history will tell you what their main purpose is on this forum. I hope I can learn something from you.

This is my first year on the forum and just a few days from now this profile will be celebrating its first birthday on this forum. I just hope that my first 1 year on the forum then full member rank can be achieved. I need another 51 merit to reach that rank but I think it will be possible if I continue to contribute with good posts in this forum.

tranthidung

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Quote from: _BlackStar on October 05, 2021, 10:50:55 AM

I guess I have to have a thick skin to cover opinions like this from the outside so that my interest never fades in this forum. I see some high ranking users seem quite apathetic about newbies trying to get their rankings through posts worth something and immediately their imaginations spin and want to put high pressure on us with as few problems as they ever find on this forum.

If newbies simply read and answer questions if they can help other members on this amazing forum, nobody think of them with positive thoughts.

They suddenly join Meta or Beginners & Help with their Guides, it would raise suspicious questions on what are their real purposes when joining the forum and whether they are real newbies.

Real newbies don't make guides or join Meta board that is the most active board about merit distribution.

Lastly, most of Guides from newbies are unnecessary and they repeat answers from available topics. Badly, their answers are worse than available topics/ answers. They don't do enough read and search (or just skip all ?).

_BlackStar

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Quote from: lovesmayfamilis on October 03, 2021, 12:01:21 AM

I don't think this will somehow limit the number of new alternative accounts if managers change the rules.
Participation in the bounty is no longer a goal for many "new" accounts. Accounts appear that are grown to participate in subscription companies. Some newbies follow the pattern, earning merits from Ratimov, from OgNasty on merits topics. And then hunting for merits, they quickly get the rank of "member", after which they start spamming a lot in threads.
The further fate of these accounts will be either participation in signature companies or the sale of these same accounts.
This is a well-built business that those who do it are unlikely to give up.

I guess I have to have a thick skin to cover opinions like this from the outside so that my interest never fades in this forum. I see some high ranking users seem quite apathetic about newbies trying to get their rankings through posts worth something and immediately their imaginations spin and want to put high pressure on us with as few problems as they ever find on this forum. I don't want everyone to mix up gold and mud, so maybe they no longer want to see anything valuable from within and ignore most of the effort. I hope I never become one of the users you mean.

One thing that is certain is the apathy of the users in responding to the problems I raised in the topic is that there is no final solution. So I don't think having to let more people show their apathy towards the topic idea I created and now locking the thread was a decision. Thanks for interacting with me here, you are all great people.

Lucius

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Quote from: Rikafip on October 04, 2021, 03:09:04 PM

The way things are developing and bar lowering down constantly, soon even that won't be a requirement. Managers have to fill those spots, I can't imagine any of them saying to potential client "sorry, I have to pass because I simply can't fill your signature campaign with quality posters as all that is left are shitposters".

If we agree on that, then it’s clear where the problem lies, and no one should wonder why we have so many shitposters in signature/bounty campaigns. However, when I remember what it was like 4-5 years ago, everything bad that is happening is still very limited.

Quote from: Lucius on October 04, 2021, 09:00:29 AM

A member who is active almost every day and fails in 4 months to get at least 5 times as many merits is a shitposter.

Quote from: Rikafip on October 04, 2021, 03:09:04 PM

You can be a decent poster in the gambling board, and still fail to meet that amount of merit.

It’s a known fact, some boards just don’t attract enough attention from merit source members, and to be honest in the Gambling board a good poster gets lost in a bunch of spam. Yet this is a forum that is primarily focused on Bitcoin, and it is logical that gambling or altcoins and some other boards will never be those boards where the average user can expect his post to be rewarded with merits (at least not with some significant number).

Rikafip

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Quote from: Lucius on October 04, 2021, 09:00:29 AM

I am of the personal opinion that Newbie and Jr. Member members should not participate in bounty and signature campaigns, just as I am of the opinion that campaign managers should not use the "5 merits in last 120 days" rule as a yardstick to determine whether or not someone is a quality poster or not.

The way things are developing and bar lowering down constantly, soon even that won't be a requirement. Managers have to fill those spots, I can't imagine any of them saying to potential client "sorry, I have to pass because I simply can't fill your signature campaign with quality posters as all that is left are shitposters".

Quote from: Lucius on October 04, 2021, 09:00:29 AM

A member who is active almost every day and fails in 4 months to get at least 5 times as many merits is a shitposter.

You can be a decent poster in the gambling board, and still fail to meet that amount of merit.

UmerIdrees

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Quote from: DaveF on October 03, 2021, 12:59:17 PM

Thousands of bounty posts, no 'real' content and no merit. They are going to spend years here and still be a newbie.

They are earning tokens and some tokens may be worth collecting though many are useless. That's why you see no decline in bounty hunting.

Quote from: DaveF on October 03, 2021, 12:59:17 PM

If that works for theymos & the rest of the staff why should we care?

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Quote from: DaveF on October 03, 2021, 12:59:17 PM

I think it's a waste of resources and time but that's me. With that I am really surprised that nobody has come up with a better way to manage bounties then pages and pages of posts like that. I would have thought by now some web developer would have come up with a nice online setup for people to submit stuff in instead of the way it's done now.
-Dave

Some managers gives an excel sheet to send the weekly tasks but still people post both in the thread and sheets. The bitcointalk is not a bounty forum hence they can't develop an in house bounty report collection forum. The projects only care for promotion and they have the managers who are wiling to do the manual work.

skarais

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Quote from: Zedpastin on October 04, 2021, 07:38:43 AM

I think we should stop all bounties that pay in tokens and only allow campaigns which are paying in Bitcoin because the Bitcoin paying ones are hiring better quality members because it is worth something.

No, probably not and you should already know why the bounty to date even though there are so many spammers expecting something of value in the bounty. I'm not sure it will be removed but it's still possible to be tightened with all kinds of rules be it from the manager or by the forum. I don't think that this suggestion will be fully considered by admin.

Lucius

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Quote from: DaveF on October 03, 2021, 12:59:17 PM

Thousands of bounty posts, no 'real' content and no merit. They are going to spend years here and still be a newbie.
If that works for theymos & the rest of the staff why should we care?
I think it's a waste of resources and time but that's me.

We should all be concerned about the way some things happen on the forum under the pretext of human freedoms to do almost anything they want. Perhaps easiest to say is that we don't care what happens to bounty campaigns, we ignore Altcoins boards and the problem is solved - but with this way of thinking we support not only those who create hundreds of scam projects, but we also allow them to recruit thousands of beginners who promote the same scam for very little or no earnings.

I am of the personal opinion that Newbie and Jr. Member members should not participate in bounty and signature campaigns, just as I am of the opinion that campaign managers should not use the "5 merits in last 120 days" rule as a yardstick to determine whether or not someone is a quality poster or not. A member who is active almost every day and fails in 4 months to get at least 5 times as many merits is a shitposter.

Pmalek

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Quote from: tranthidung on October 03, 2021, 07:44:23 PM

Years ago, there was suggestion that the forum can charge fee in Bitcoin (not altcoins) from projects that want to run their bounties on the forum.

I suggested that at one point. Security deposits for Bounty threads.

I am probably not the first nor last one to do it though. But the general feeling I got is that no one really thinks that it's a good idea. It would create a wrong assumption that the forum is behind those bounty campaigns and that they are safe to join.

I don't think that anyone should be restricted from joining bounties. If they want to waste their time doing that, it's their loss. Just because someone is a newbie here, doesn't mean that they don't have social media accounts that are perfect in the eyes of campaigns who need them.

It would help to fight spam if bounty reports were no longer allowed to be reported in a new post on the forum. Instead, bounty campaigns would have to allow users to submit such reports off site. Those who don't comply get locked or deleted. But my experience tells me that no one is interested in making any changes to the bounty sub.

Zedpastin

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Quote from: skarais on October 04, 2021, 06:16:06 AM

You may be able to advise a reputable manager like Hhampuz, Murat, CryptopreneurBrainboss, julerz12, irfan_pak10, Royse777, and some others managers to limit newbie and junior members from joining the bounty they manage. But your suggestions may be useless and ignored by some novice managers or other low ranking managers representing the project team. Maybe it would be nice if all managers implemented it and made those suggestions as local rules for themselves and the bounties they manage so that it becomes a good habit in the future.

It will be ignored by most other bounty managers that you have not named because they do not care for the forum they only care about advertising their scam projects. I think most of the managers you have named already have a good quality campaign and remove anyone that is not posting good posts they do not need to change their habits. I think we should stop all bounties that pay in tokens and only allow campaigns which are paying in Bitcoin because the Bitcoin paying ones are hiring better quality members because it is worth something. The tokens are worth nothing and only newbies are interested in posting for something that is worth nothing but might be worth something in the future. I think if theymos changed the rules to only Bitcoin paying signature campaigns and bounties we would see less spam everywhere and he could probably save money on hiring staff because there would be no need for them when the spam is removed by that change. If it is not made a rule then bounties will continue to spam the entire forum.

skarais

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Quote from: bakasabo on October 04, 2021, 04:33:06 AM

I would suggest bounty managers to make a limit of accepted newbies and jr.members in campaigns. Even if the campaign uses stake system, accepting first 100 newbies and jr.members would be enough.

You may be able to advise a reputable manager like Hhampuz, Murat, CryptopreneurBrainboss, julerz12, irfan_pak10, Royse777, and some others managers to limit newbie and junior members from joining the bounty they manage. But your suggestions may be useless and ignored by some novice managers or other low ranking managers representing the project team. Maybe it would be nice if all managers implemented it and made those suggestions as local rules for themselves and the bounties they manage so that it becomes a good habit in the future.

bakasabo

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I would suggest bounty managers to make a limit of accepted newbies and jr.members in campaigns. Even if the campaign uses stake system, accepting first 100 newbies and jr.members would be enough. Not a secret that most of the newbies that join twitter and facebook campaign are part of farms. They follow each other and their project posts and tweets get less response and interest from society, as they share everything round each other. For projects such promotion is a waste of budget. However, these newbies create a hype or noise on social media. That is why not accepting them will be wrong, but making a limit of accepted might help.

borovichok

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Quote from: lovesmayfamilis on October 04, 2021, 01:57:33 AM

We can just guess what kind of stereotyped posts they write on social networks and are talking nonsense, thinking that they are doing useful "work"

Social media bounty hunters don't do much at all, especially those who use Twitter to promote a project; all they do is retweet, copy other people's comments and post it as an original post, and repeat the process every week until the campaign ends; those who care about merits are those without large social media platforms who want to wear sig and avatar and promote projects here on the forum, and end up shuffling around.

lovesmayfamilis

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Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on October 03, 2021, 07:19:17 PM

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on October 03, 2021, 01:52:19 PM

Quote from: DaveF on October 03, 2021, 12:59:17 PM

There are 100s (1000s?) of users here that look like this person:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/alexandrbelres-2156763
Or this one: https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/rachchi-2297077

Ah yes, members of the 1000+ post/0 merit club. Gotta love 'em. At least what they post is mostly just bounty reports and not shitposts (though some of them do that as well).

This is exactly the point I made above. These people are largely not actually bothering anyone (except those who want to create rules solely for the sake of having rules).

There are alternatives to having a bounty section, however none of them amount to requiring that you must be an experienced member in order to participate in bounty campaigns.

It has been repeatedly noticed that these "law-abiding" bounty hunters either do not have alternative accounts or are very careful and do not make mistakes, sooner or later leave their comfort zone. They need at least one merit because some managers don't accept Newbie.
And this is where the bounty hunter's tragedy begins. Having a very large activity on the forum, with which other users have become legends, these accounts begin to write nonsense, copy from other sites, which ultimately leads to a ban.
Therefore, we see in the Meta people who are very far from the rules of the forum and the life of the forum itself, who do not understand what their fault is and why they are either banned or received a negative tag. And their whole tragedy is that they never until the need arose, did not go beyond the "bounty" section
We can just guess what kind of stereotyped posts they write on social networks and are talking nonsense, thinking that they are doing useful "work"

aysg76

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Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on October 03, 2021, 01:52:19 PM

Quote from: DaveF on October 03, 2021, 12:59:17 PM

There are 100s (1000s?) of users here that look like this person:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/alexandrbelres-2156763
Or this one: https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/rachchi-2297077

Ah yes, members of the 1000+ post/0 merit club. Gotta love 'em. At least what they post is mostly just bounty reports and not shitposts (though some of them do that as well).

They have more than 1000 posts and still not a single merit and the reason you have mentioned that they only post the bounty reports in that section only.They are not concerned to the forum and happy serving and fulfilling their base purpose to earn some fake tokens from these bounty campaign.

But there are some other who move one step ahead of them and they are junior members who managed to earn atleast one merit and account is registered in 2018-2019 and they are still engaging themselves in bounty campaign.The one merit earned maybe from an another alt account and then they join some signature campaign and shitposting again on the forum.Some of them sell that account saying they can earn with this account by participating in campaign which is bad from forum perspective.You will find lot of them.Not only newbie but some high rank members have not also been able to earn any single merit after the introduction of merit system and that's surprising.But it's true.

tranthidung

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Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on October 03, 2021, 07:19:17 PM

There are alternatives to having a bounty section, however none of them amount to requiring that you must be an experienced member in order to participate in bounty campaigns.

Years ago, there was suggestion that the forum can charge fee in Bitcoin (not altcoins) from projects that want to run their bounties on the forum. It is kinda solution to force scammers have to spend initial cost for their projects and perhaps reduce their spam intensity on the forum.

Additionally, there was suggestion to require bounties to pay in Bitcoin, not pay in altcoins or tokens.

It seems theymos does not want to implement harsh restriction like that.

PrimeNumber7

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Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on October 03, 2021, 01:52:19 PM

Quote from: DaveF on October 03, 2021, 12:59:17 PM

There are 100s (1000s?) of users here that look like this person:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/alexandrbelres-2156763
Or this one: https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/rachchi-2297077

Ah yes, members of the 1000+ post/0 merit club. Gotta love 'em. At least what they post is mostly just bounty reports and not shitposts (though some of them do that as well).

This is exactly the point I made above. These people are largely not actually bothering anyone (except those who want to create rules solely for the sake of having rules).

There are alternatives to having a bounty section, however none of them amount to requiring that you must be an experienced member in order to participate in bounty campaigns.

borovichok

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Not every newbie bounty hunter is interested in merit or ranking up; most of them don't care about the merits system or even how it works; all they care about is their name being on the spreadsheet, and then they go out and promote the company they're working with on social media; in some cases, the majority of them are article writers. That, I believe, is more profitable than those who write on the forum while wearing sig and avarta. The only reason you see a newbie with 2k posts and no merits is because of this.

Quote from: DaveF on October 03, 2021, 12:59:17 PM

Meh, it's the way it is here.
There are 100s (1000s?) of users here that look like this person:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/alexandrbelres-2156763
Or this one: https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/rachchi-2297077

Thousands of bounty posts, no 'real' content and no merit. They are going to spend years here and still be a newbie.
If that works for theymos & the rest of the staff why should we care?

_BlackStar

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Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on October 03, 2021, 01:52:19 PM

It's not that the members who've posted don't really care, it's that there's not a hell of a lot any of us can do about the problem--and it's been discussed previously in many threads over a period of years. Unless bounty managers become more selective in who they admit into those bounties, or if Theymos puts the smackdown on shitposting (which he won't), the only thing the community can do is complain about it--and that's a pointless exercise in futility. That's why you're seeing so much apathy here.

I had to change this thread to lock after I read the disguised command from your post. Although in reality I didn't find much support for my idea but I am satisfied after knowing that when a solution to make something change for the better doesn't exist then users can become apathetic about it. Thank you the pharmacist.

The Sceptical Chymist

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Quote from: DaveF on October 03, 2021, 12:59:17 PM

There are 100s (1000s?) of users here that look like this person:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/alexandrbelres-2156763
Or this one: https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/rachchi-2297077

Ah yes, members of the 1000+ post/0 merit club. Gotta love 'em. At least what they post is mostly just bounty reports and not shitposts (though some of them do that as well).

Quote from: _BlackStar on October 03, 2021, 01:46:11 PM

Who cares?, this is the gist of all the responses I can conclude.

It's not that the members who've posted don't really care, it's that there's not a hell of a lot any of us can do about the problem--and it's been discussed previously in many threads over a period of years. Unless bounty managers become more selective in who they admit into those bounties, or if Theymos puts the smackdown on shitposting (which he won't), the only thing the community can do is complain about it--and that's a pointless exercise in futility. That's why you're seeing so much apathy here.

Topic: Should every newbie have a limit in the bounty of social media? (Read 545 times)