Should i change my BTC Wallet Address ?

virasog

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Quote from: apogio on January 03, 2024, 03:39:29 AM

I would meet someone outside a bank, on working hours, so I would tell them to send me the sats and I would, at the same time, withdraw the money from the bank.

This would be safer I guess.

In my country some banks allow you to withdraw money with a temporary pin code, so you could not meet the other person at all, but you could instead give him the pin code to go and withdraw it themselves. Of course with this approach they don't get any information about you. The only problem is that you don't have an escrow.

The above option is better where you will get the money from the bank as soon as the other person transfer you the bitcoins but the second option of using a PIN to withdraw still needs to be a face to face transaction.

If you are not present on the spot, the other person will never send you the bitcoin first, as you can receive bitcoin and never send them the PIN to withdraw the cash. If anyone is willing to become Escrow in this case, then the Escrow will need to show his presence physically with person who will get money from the bank through PIN. This scenario becomes a bit complicated and also risky for the seller of the bitcoin.

Pmalek

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Quote from: Z-tight on January 02, 2024, 09:28:20 AM

It is not safe to just find people who want to do a f2f tx from just anywhere, it is easy to get connected with scammers and thieves, for f2f trades, it is recommended to use p2p exchanges like bisq, as they allow you link up with people who also want to trade f2f with you.

Scammers could also be roaming around Bisq looking for victims they could take advantage of in P2P trades for the same reasons you mentioned: they want meetings face-to-face and want to deal with cash.

Quote from: Yamane_Keto on January 02, 2024, 12:42:47 AM

I disagree, the other party can know your name through your bank payment, but only that isn't enough to track you down to your residential address, where you work or the number of your family members, that is too much information that can possibly be gotten by just your name, except you give your trading partner more information about you.

People share way too much about their private lives on social media. Information about their work, life-partners, friends, and relatives is available for free. It's a good starting point for someone looking to find out more about you.

apogio

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Quote from: virasog on January 03, 2024, 02:36:45 AM

Finally, to be extra careful, do not go meet the other person in order to have a big deal. Make smaller deals one at a time, so that the other person know that scamming such moderate amounts won't be any beneficial for him.

I agree in general, but there is a safety problem.

I would meet someone outside a bank, on working hours, so I would tell them to send me the sats and I would, at the same time, withdraw the money from the bank.

This would be safer I guess.

In my country some banks allow you to withdraw money with a temporary pin code, so you could not meet the other person at all, but you could instead give him the pin code to go and withdraw it themselves. Of course with this approach they don't get any information about you. The only problem is that you don't have an escrow.

virasog

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Quote from: Pmalek on January 01, 2024, 05:56:33 AM

@virasog
When you are doing a face-to-face transaction there are still a few things you should be careful about. For instance, you could receive fake bank notes and end up scammed that way. Also, there is the threat of getting robbed and even physically injured.
But you can remain anonymous trading this way. The other person doesn't need to know your real name and there is no exchange of personal details.

I don't think there is a much risk for the scam notes while doing a face to face transactions because both the parties know about the local currency notes and it is not easy to decieve them on this basis.

However, yes i agree that there can be chances that the other party may have wrong intentions and they may stole our coins or money through gun point etc but in order to minimize this risk, better ask them to meet in public crowded place and also we should not go alone, but may take one of our close friend or brother with us.

Finally, to be extra careful, do not go meet the other person in order to have a big deal. Make smaller deals one at a time, so that the other person know that scamming such moderate amounts won't be any beneficial for him.

apogio

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Quote from: Z-tight on January 02, 2024, 09:28:20 AM

It is not safe to just find people who want to do a f2f tx from just anywhere, it is easy to get connected with scammers and thieves, for f2f trades, it is recommended to use p2p exchanges like bisq, as they allow you link up with people who also want to trade f2f with you.

In fact, for me BISQ is even more private than finding someone and trading f2f. We should run our own node and connect BISQ to it over TOR. Then, this system is very secure and of course, very decentralised.

Alternatively people can use Robosats. Many people use Umbrel or Start9 for their nodes. These implementations support Robosats as a plugin and it is fairly easy to use.

Finally, there are exchanges like the one on my signature (and of course many more) that people can use to exchange between currencies. A list of them can be found here: https://kycnot.me/.

Z-tight

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Quote from: virasog on January 01, 2024, 02:01:59 AM

Buying face to face also minimizes the risk involved in online P2P trading (where there are some chances of scam) but usually it is hard to find a person who will want to do a P2P transactions as most people wants to remain anonymous and also it becomes even more difficult to find such a person in the country where the bitcoin is not legal.

It is not safe to just find people who want to do a f2f tx from just anywhere, it is easy to get connected with scammers and thieves, for f2f trades, it is recommended to use p2p exchanges like bisq, as they allow you link up with people who also want to trade f2f with you.

Quote from: Yamane_Keto on January 02, 2024, 12:42:47 AM

From your bank account, the other party can know your real name and facial features, can track you to know your residential address, and with a simple search can know your work, the number of your family members, and from there all the necessary information about you. and paying in cash may lead you to be part of the Money laundry.

I disagree, the other party can know your name through your bank payment, but only that isn't enough to track you down to your residential address, where you work or the number of your family members, that is too much information that can possibly be gotten by just your name, except you give your trading partner more information about you.

Yamane_Keto

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Quote from: Pmalek on January 01, 2024, 05:56:33 AM

@virasog
When you are doing a face-to-face transaction there are still a few things you should be careful about. For instance, you could receive fake bank notes and end up scammed that way. Also, there is the threat of getting robbed and even physically injured.
But you can remain anonymous trading this way. The other person doesn't need to know your real name and there is no exchange of personal details.

From your bank account, the other party can know your real name and facial features, can track you to know your residential address, and with a simple search can know your work, the number of your family members, and from there all the necessary information about you. and paying in cash may lead you to be part of the Money laundry. risks resulting from a face-to-face transaction are higher than online P2P, and the risks of online P2P can be reduced by using escrow and dealing with trustworthy people.

Pmalek

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@virasog
When you are doing a face-to-face transaction there are still a few things you should be careful about. For instance, you could receive fake bank notes and end up scammed that way. Also, there is the threat of getting robbed and even physically injured.
But you can remain anonymous trading this way. The other person doesn't need to know your real name and there is no exchange of personal details.

virasog

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Quote from: Pmalek on December 26, 2023, 06:03:42 AM

Quote from: ranochigo on December 25, 2023, 04:59:43 AM

A P2P real life transaction? It would be perfectly legitimate in most jurisdiction and they wouldn't have a good reason to ask you to provide a concrete proof, even if that is possible.

There doesn't need to be a paper or digital trail of a P2P transaction. You met someone. The topic of Bitcoin came up. You wanted to buy some, the person agreed to sell it to you. That's where everything begins and ends. It's not illegal and and you haven't done anything wrong buying that way.

Buying face to face also minimizes the risk involved in online P2P trading (where there are some chances of scam) but usually it is hard to find a person who will want to do a P2P transactions as most people wants to remain anonymous and also it becomes even more difficult to find such a person in the country where the bitcoin is not legal.

However, doing a face to face P2P transaction can be another way to get rid of your traces of the coins as you are exchanging (converting to fiat or any stable coin / altcoin) from a real person and not from any exchanger.

Pmalek

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Quote from: ranochigo on December 25, 2023, 04:59:43 AM

A P2P real life transaction? It would be perfectly legitimate in most jurisdiction and they wouldn't have a good reason to ask you to provide a concrete proof, even if that is possible.

There doesn't need to be a paper or digital trail of a P2P transaction. You met someone. The topic of Bitcoin came up. You wanted to buy some, the person agreed to sell it to you. That's where everything begins and ends. It's not illegal and and you haven't done anything wrong buying that way.

hugeblack

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Quote from: LoyceV on December 24, 2023, 03:41:38 AM

I don't think that matters for chain analysis, unless funds are joined with other inputs to create multiple outputs. And at the moment it costs a small fortune in transaction fees.

I'm not talking about chain analysis, but about most CEXs. They all try to adhere to regulatory standards, but they want a fast and secure user experience. They do not do a deep analysis of the chain, but rather track the last 5 transactions and make sure that all the addresses in them are not on any blacklist.

If you are committing criminal activity or there is someone trying to track you, this method will not help you.

ranochigo

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Quote from: LoyceV on December 24, 2023, 03:41:38 AM

They'll ask the next question: "How did you get the funds?". Plausible deniability isn't the same as a plausible answer.

A P2P real life transaction? It would be perfectly legitimate in most jurisdiction and they wouldn't have a good reason to ask you to provide a concrete proof, even if that is possible. Most real life or OTC marketplace wouldn't have any paper trails.

From what we've observed so far, most (or at least all that I've heard of) account closures comes with a direct link to a violation of the TOS. Whilst they can argue for a solid explanation provided with all of the transaction proofs or receipts, the reality is that most of the funds are already tainted and it would be unreasonable for the KYC to be this thorough for all of their clients.

Of course, I concede that it isn't a foolproof method but its the reality that exchanges are facing with regards to tainted coins.

Pmalek

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Quote from: LoyceV on December 24, 2023, 03:41:38 AM

But why? You're using Electrum, which gives you a very long list of new addresses. You can label each of them, to keep track of different payments. Address reuse is bad for privacy, and makes it harder to know where a payment came from. Why would you ever use the same address for different purposes?

Perhaps he thought that keeping all his bitcoin in the same address would result in cheaper transaction fees in the future, not knowing that the number of inputs, outputs, and the script type determines the total transaction size and fees and not how many different addresses you have.

Quote from: LoyceV on December 24, 2023, 03:41:38 AM

Quote from: hugeblack on December 17, 2023, 08:04:19 AM

* Your address ---> new address ---> new address ---> new address ---> new address ---> exchange address

I don't think that matters for chain analysis, unless funds are joined with other inputs to create multiple outputs. And at the moment it costs a small fortune in transaction fees.

You shouldn't send the entire balance from address A to B, C, etc., But if you send only one part, blockchain analysis can't possibly know it's the same person. The coins might have changed hands 2-3 times already. If the question arises where did you get your coins from, I bought them P2P in cash from a tourist who visited my city.

satscraper

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Quote from: BitcoinsGreat on December 15, 2023, 12:43:54 PM

I was in the Si*b^^ Signatue campiagn and i am using the same address currently that i used in that Signature campaign. As you have heard binance asked for verification if they receive the funds directly to the binance account.

I receive my funds in the electrum wallet, If i transfer my funds from my wallet to binance, will it be a probelm?

Can i continue using the same BTC address, as it was an Electrum address and not directly a binance deposit address Huh

You can obfuscate a bit the source of your income before directing it to binance. The easiest way to do this is to make the provisional transaction (to fresh addresses under your control) which mimics the ordinary 2 x 2 packet transaction. By doing so, you will introduce a 50% ambiguity into the analysis of funds originating from the signature campaign. You can do it manually (virtually with the use of any wallet) or automatically through the fake conjoin feature implemented in Sparrow.

apogio

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Quote from: BitcoinsGreat on December 17, 2023, 07:02:41 AM

I have been using this address for some years now, so i got some money from Si^D^^ recently but what about those satoshis which i got when i was not in that campaign ? I transferred some satoshi to some other wallets before the campaign too. So all those wallets become suspected Huh

Yes, if you have received coins to the same address, then it is obvious that you are the owner of the address. If you gave me the address A to send you money there and you also gave it to another user, then all that money is now blended together and if someone tracked my transactions, they would also see the other user's payments on that address.

Having seen that, I strongly recommend using the swap method that I explained above.

LoyceV

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Quote from: BitcoinsGreat on December 17, 2023, 07:02:41 AM

I have been using this address for some years now

But why? You're using Electrum, which gives you a very long list of new addresses. You can label each of them, to keep track of different payments. Address reuse is bad for privacy, and makes it harder to know where a payment came from. Why would you ever use the same address for different purposes?

Quote from: hugeblack on December 17, 2023, 08:04:19 AM

* Your address ---> new address ---> new address ---> new address ---> new address ---> exchange address

I don't think that matters for chain analysis, unless funds are joined with other inputs to create multiple outputs. And at the moment it costs a small fortune in transaction fees.

Quote from: ranochigo on December 17, 2023, 08:49:42 AM

I think the best method would be to have a form of plausible deniability.

They'll ask the next question: "How did you get the funds?". Plausible deniability isn't the same as a plausible answer.

ranochigo

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Quote from: apogio on December 16, 2023, 03:39:40 AM

This is why I suggested coinjoins. I support coinjoins is general, no matter where the inputs come from. Bitcoin is money and as long as it is used widely, you will eventually receive money coming from illicit activities, just like the FIAT money you receive every day. We should learn to use coinjoins as a habit. It is not mandatory, but it is clearly a good option!

Whilst CoinJoins are a good and easy way of obfuscating the origin of your funds, by the means of mixing them with other UTXOs, it is still frowned upon by many exchange. They seem to associate CoinJoin with criminal activities, and hence it's likely that it becomes an issue regardless. Privacy coins negates this issue because they are designed what that in mind, and in comparison would be much more fungible.

I think the best method would be to have a form of plausible deniability. You have to convince the exchange that you're likely not the owner of the address that received the Sinbad tainted coins, and thus you should do multiple hops, like what hugeblack has said. The number of hops that is done matters less, but your spending pattern (ie. how it gets sent to the final address) would matter a lot more. For example, if you simply send the coins from one address into another, in a single transaction, it would be worse than splitting them and sending them to different addresses.

Pmalek

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Quote from: BitcoinsGreat on December 17, 2023, 07:02:41 AM

I also want to know one more thing. I have been using this address for some years now, so i got some money from Si^D^^ recently but what about those satoshis which i got when i was not in that campaign ? I transferred some satoshi to some other wallets before the campaign too. So all those wallets become suspected Huh

It doesn't cost you any money to generate a fresh address every time you need to receive Bitcoin, nor will you be saving on transaction fees by using the same one over and over again. Start doing that so it becomes a habit and also divide your activities in different wallets. Then, things like what you just explained won't happen.

You said that you used that same address several years. Have you received any coins to it from a service that has your KYC details? For example, an exchange, a casino, etc.? If you have, it would be very easy for blockchain analysis or any interested 3rd-party to figure out who you are based on what that centralized service tells them. You moving the older coins before you started receiving Sinbad payments doesn't matter. Bitcoin's blockchain is public. The same person that owns coins from a CEX also received BTC from Sinbad. That's what the blockchain will show.

hugeblack

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For your privacy and to enhance your privacy, you must use a new Bitcoin address for each signature campaign you join, while using a wallet that supports coin control feature.

Currently, sinbad address is on OFAC blacklist list, and some central services may freeze any deposits from your address and ask you for documents to prove the source of the funds, so you must break the link. Some CEXs do not conduct a deep analysis of the chain, so sending funds from that account to 5 new addresses^* may be enough. But to ensure that no problems occur, and given the high transaction fees, it is better to use any service that breaks the link between your addresses, such as mixers, for example.

* Your address ---> new address ---> new address ---> new address ---> new address ---> exchange address

BitcoinsGreat

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Quote from: Pmalek on December 17, 2023, 03:51:28 AM

You shouldn't be using the same address for different campaign and purposes. Create separate wallets (not addresses) for any activity that you do. That way it's easier to monitor and control the different coins. You don't want to end up in a situation to link a Sinbad UTXO with a KYC-verified coin and effectively prove that you are connected to both. Leave the Sinbad coins alone for now. When the fees drop, they'll need to be anonymized, and you better keep them away from centralized exchanges.

Thanks for this and other advices by the members here.

I also want to know one more thing. I have been using this address for some years now, so i got some money from Si^D^^ recently but what about those satoshis which i got when i was not in that campaign ? I transferred some satoshi to some other wallets before the campaign too. So all those wallets become suspected Huh

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