Should there be a GUI for Bitcoin core? - page 2.

unamis76

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Quote from: Jet Cash on March 24, 2016, 09:53:23 AM

So how doesw the new guy perform some basic tasks such as -

what's happened to my transaction?
Create a new wallet/address
List my regular payments
What fee should I include
Am I connected?

etc.....

Yes, all of these are there, but you don't want to have to start teaching him to use a command line instruction

Don't forget that he doesn't trust web wallets, and wants to use "the real thing" ie. Bitcoin core. He's probably going to run a pruned node as well, but he doesn't need to know that.

I started this thread because people keep asking how we can popularise Bitcoin, and I think this is one way to do it. Now that this thread is on here, I expect we'll see a few GUIs with advertising start to appear. If that happens, then please don't advertise faucets or gambling, let's try to improve the image of Bitcoin.

Transactions are listen on their own section, with info about them.
Creation of new wallets... Yes, that's something I agree that it can be simplified

For addresses, you can generate new ones right on the GUI.
Regular payments are on the transactions section, one just has to label them correctly.
Fees can be automatically processed while the user instructs himself on how to properly set fees (if he wants to do so, which he should)
Connections are mentioned on the bottom of the GUI.

As you say, all these are there... And there's no need for command line usage to check on them.

It's like when you teach a kid to use an OS... There's always some things he needs help with, even if the GUI is the best one in the world.

Quote from: danda on March 24, 2016, 10:25:46 AM

my biggest complaint with bitcoin core is that it does not support multiple wallets.

So here I have to download the entire blockchain just for the thing to work, and then if I want to use more than one wallet, I must download it for each one, plus waste additional resources on validation, bandwidth, etc. such a waste.

You can point your client to a wallet.dat wherever you like. But yes, that's definitely not user friendly

Kprawn

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Take it from someone who did many hours of IT training to beginners.... the things we think are simple {probably because we have been using it for years} looks VERY intimidating to new users. I think some

people might compare our GUI with something they are used to... MS Windows and for them, that is a steep learning curve. There is no harm in making it more streamline, it would just help to get more people

to use Bitcoin Core. I know, I hated Windows when I were used to DoS... and I thought other people were idiots for using it, until I got used to it, and would never go back... Code is good for developers and

a good GUI is good for adoption. Wink

thejaytiesto

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Quote from: Mitchell on March 24, 2016, 10:34:11 AM

Quote from: danda on March 24, 2016, 10:25:46 AM

my biggest complaint with bitcoin core is that it does not support multiple wallets.

So here I have to download the entire blockchain just for the thing to work, and then if I want to use more than one wallet, I must download it for each one, plus waste additional resources on validation, bandwidth, etc. such a waste.

Or you just move your wallet file to a different location, start Core, create a new wallet and move that one as well once you are done.

You can just rename your wallet.dat to wallet2.dat, then copy the other wallet.dat file to the Bitcoin folder. I would still like to know why the software can't manage multiple wallets at once tho. Maybe it has something to do with security. Let's not forget we are talking about the software that runs the full node here.. so there may be some tradeoffs. I still think the GUI can get some love for the people that like to use it as a wallet too tho.

Mitchell

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Quote from: danda on March 24, 2016, 10:25:46 AM

my biggest complaint with bitcoin core is that it does not support multiple wallets.

So here I have to download the entire blockchain just for the thing to work, and then if I want to use more than one wallet, I must download it for each one, plus waste additional resources on validation, bandwidth, etc. such a waste.

Or you just move your wallet file to a different location, start Core, create a new wallet and move that one as well once you are done.

thejaytiesto

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Quote from: LMGTFY on March 24, 2016, 07:55:34 AM

Quote from: pereira4 on March 24, 2016, 07:25:01 AM

Too many options? In my opinion Bitcoin Core GUI is pretty limited in options, specially the way you store receiving and sending addresses. You can't even order them in order of creation, or make groups to store the addresses... it's a very raw looking GUI. I hope it gets better in the future. But it definitely has a GUI.

Ahem! "...a GUI to simplify things for non-computer literate users".

Our opinions aren't really what's needed here - we've (presumably) been using Bitcoin-core since forever, and there's a sporting chance we're not non-computer literate. What's needed is input from not-us - from the non-computer literate user who finds the GUI frustrating. Telling them that we don't find it frustrating isn't going to change their user-experience at all, and isn't likely to endear them to Bitcoin.

The casual noobs will unfortunately never bother to run nodes... so forget about that. People in average are too lazy, they will just use online wallets or something.

I still agree with the people saying that the current GUI could take some improvements for those that want to use Bitcoin Core as a wallet and not just running the node only. Storing keys is very annoying.

As for sending and receiving... it's pretty damn easy, you just have to put an address and click send, it calculates the fee for you... we can make it look more pretty, but the basics are pretty easy to use.

danda

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my biggest complaint with bitcoin core is that it does not support multiple wallets.

So here I have to download the entire blockchain just for the thing to work, and then if I want to use more than one wallet, I must download it for each one, plus waste additional resources on validation, bandwidth, etc. such a waste.

Mitchell

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Electrum is made to be as simple as possible and if that isn't simple enough and you don't mind losing some options, you can always go for Mycelium and the like.

Jet Cash

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https://JetCash.com

So how doesw the new guy perform some basic tasks such as -

what's happened to my transaction?
Create a new wallet/address
List my regular payments
What fee should I include
Am I connected?

etc.....

Yes, all of these are there, but you don't want to have to start teaching him to use a command line instruction

Don't forget that he doesn't trust web wallets, and wants to use "the real thing" ie. Bitcoin core. He's probably going to run a pruned node as well, but he doesn't need to know that.

I started this thread because people keep asking how we can popularise Bitcoin, and I think this is one way to do it. Now that this thread is on here, I expect we'll see a few GUIs with advertising start to appear. If that happens, then please don't advertise faucets or gambling, let's try to improve the image of Bitcoin.

unamis76

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Bitcoin Core GUI is really, really simple. I take it the person who spoke to you doesn't really understand much about computers or any tech at all... One things is being a Bitcoin beginner, the other thing is finding Bitcoin Core confusing. I wonder what he would think if he looked at Electrum or even Armory Cheesy

Speaking more seriously, the current GUI is very adequate for beginners. It has recent transactions, your balance and a menu to send them with simple fields where you put an address, the amount, and you even have help to input fees (you can even leave it and Core defines fees automatically). If the guy has suggestions in order to improve the GUI, he can sign up here and speak his mind.

Slark

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Bitcoin Core GUI? You mean like basic wallet graphical interface? How this is complex or problematic to use? If you used any app before you will be able to handle it perfectly.
I agree that this is not exactly the most simple design, infantile and transparent. But it is sufficient on basic level to the point that you don't have to be IT major to be able to use it.
Advanced options are far more complicated tho. But that is not mandatory to know them at all.

achow101

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Just writing some code

Quote from: LMGTFY on March 24, 2016, 06:58:52 AM

Quote from: Jet Cash on March 24, 2016, 06:43:55 AM

So here I am sitting in McDonalds looking at blockchain info and the core debug page, and a guy asks me what I am doing. I started to explain about Bitcoin, and he says he already knows about it. He doesn't trust on-line wallets because of Silk Road, Mt Gox and the like ( his comment). He would use a Bitcoin core wallet, but the page I showed him ( the standard core one) is too complex, and he didn't want to learn that much about Bitcoin before he used it. He asked why there isn't a GUI to simplify things for non-computer literate users.

So, is that a good question? and is it likely that someone will create an open source GUI for core users?

I think it is a good question, though I'm not convinced I have a good answer. Open source projects seem to be a lot better at attracting developers than designers and UI testers - I can only think of a handful of open source projects with decent GUIs. I'm sure part of this is that developers tend to lead projects, and the focus is naturally on code, and that can be quite off-putting for less technical people wanting to participate in projects.

What you could do is get your friend to use the existing GUI in front of you, talking you through what it is they're trying to do, and you write down or record all their frustrations. If you're able to recommend UI improvements, so much the better, but even if it's just a list of GUI-frustrations - that should be useful to the project.

It's important that your friend does this - not you (or me, or anyone else familiar with Core's GUI), because what's frustrating to non-computer literate users is probably going to be something that we've long since forgotten, overcome, or found a work-around for.

Edit: obviously I should have said "acquaintance", not "friend", but I'm sure you get what I meant!

This would be the best thing to do and then post the list publicly, preferably on the Bitcoin Core issues page on github. That way the devs can see it (especially Jonas Schnelli, he's the GUI guy) and make changes as necessary.

I personally think that the GUI is fairly simple. I think this acquaintance was probably confused by the debug window which Jet Cash had open. The debug window is much more confusing.

LMGTFY

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Quote from: pereira4 on March 24, 2016, 07:25:01 AM

Too many options? In my opinion Bitcoin Core GUI is pretty limited in options, specially the way you store receiving and sending addresses. You can't even order them in order of creation, or make groups to store the addresses... it's a very raw looking GUI. I hope it gets better in the future. But it definitely has a GUI.

Ahem! "...a GUI to simplify things for non-computer literate users".

Our opinions aren't really what's needed here - we've (presumably) been using Bitcoin-core since forever, and there's a sporting chance we're not non-computer literate. What's needed is input from not-us - from the non-computer literate user who finds the GUI frustrating. Telling them that we don't find it frustrating isn't going to change their user-experience at all, and isn't likely to endear them to Bitcoin.

merelcoin

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Bitcoin core has GUI and it's GUI is easy to understand, if it's still to complex, use lightweight/SPV wallet such as Electrum or Mycelium which is more user-friendly.
I think people is just too lazy to learn something that looks complex while it's not complex, 5 minutes is enough to tell people how to use bitcoin core.

Maybe bitcoin core dev should think about it for next update Roll Eyes

Altough i don't see how somebody can find the bitcoin-qt hard to master, i do feel the need to point out that there are at least a dozen of desktop/mobile clients available. I'm pretty sure even the most novice user will be able to find a client that he/she feels confortable using.

Next to this, i think blockchain's web wallet is 100% noob friendly, altough i would never ever recommand anybody to use a webwallet (due to security issues).

I think the bigger issue is explaining how and where a new user can trade/purchage/get bitcoins to fund his new wallet... But that's a different discussion Wink

bob123

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Quote from: pereira4 on March 24, 2016, 07:25:01 AM

Quote from: Jet Cash on March 24, 2016, 07:01:57 AM

Quote from: OmegaStarScream on March 24, 2016, 06:49:36 AM

what ? Bitcoin core do have a GUI and it's not hard or complex to use at all .

Well I don't have a problem using it, and I quite like the layout. But this guy seemed to think that there were too many options, and no icons to simplify things. I was thinking of the user who has trouble moving around on YouTube, but could be a Bitcoin user. Maybe we should discourage them then.

Too many options? In my opinion Bitcoin Core GUI is pretty limited in options, specially the way you store receiving and sending addresses. You can't even order them in order of creation, or make groups to store the addresses... it's a very raw looking GUI. I hope it gets better in the future. But it definitely has a GUI.

I agree with that. I dont see how the Bitcoin core gui could be too complex in any way to be easily understood.
Not like you would trust monkeys with your money.

pereira4

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Quote from: Jet Cash on March 24, 2016, 07:01:57 AM

Quote from: OmegaStarScream on March 24, 2016, 06:49:36 AM

what ? Bitcoin core do have a GUI and it's not hard or complex to use at all .

Well I don't have a problem using it, and I quite like the layout. But this guy seemed to think that there were too many options, and no icons to simplify things. I was thinking of the user who has trouble moving around on YouTube, but could be a Bitcoin user. Maybe we should discourage them then.

Too many options? In my opinion Bitcoin Core GUI is pretty limited in options, specially the way you store receiving and sending addresses. You can't even order them in order of creation, or make groups to store the addresses... it's a very raw looking GUI. I hope it gets better in the future. But it definitely has a GUI.

Jet Cash

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https://JetCash.com

Quote from: OmegaStarScream on March 24, 2016, 06:49:36 AM

what ? Bitcoin core do have a GUI and it's not hard or complex to use at all .

Well I don't have a problem using it, and I quite like the layout. But this guy seemed to think that there were too many options, and no icons to simplify things. I was thinking of the user who has trouble moving around on YouTube, but could be a Bitcoin user. Maybe we should discourage them then.

LMGTFY

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Quote from: Jet Cash on March 24, 2016, 06:43:55 AM

So here I am sitting in McDonalds looking at blockchain info and the core debug page, and a guy asks me what I am doing. I started to explain about Bitcoin, and he says he already knows about it. He doesn't trust on-line wallets because of Silk Road, Mt Gox and the like ( his comment). He would use a Bitcoin core wallet, but the page I showed him ( the standard core one) is too complex, and he didn't want to learn that much about Bitcoin before he used it. He asked why there isn't a GUI to simplify things for non-computer literate users.

So, is that a good question? and is it likely that someone will create an open source GUI for core users?

I think it is a good question, though I'm not convinced I have a good answer. Open source projects seem to be a lot better at attracting developers than designers and UI testers - I can only think of a handful of open source projects with decent GUIs. I'm sure part of this is that developers tend to lead projects, and the focus is naturally on code, and that can be quite off-putting for less technical people wanting to participate in projects.

What you could do is get your friend to use the existing GUI in front of you, talking you through what it is they're trying to do, and you write down or record all their frustrations. If you're able to recommend UI improvements, so much the better, but even if it's just a list of GUI-frustrations - that should be useful to the project.

It's important that your friend does this - not you (or me, or anyone else familiar with Core's GUI), because what's frustrating to non-computer literate users is probably going to be something that we've long since forgotten, overcome, or found a work-around for.

Edit: obviously I should have said "acquaintance", not "friend", but I'm sure you get what I meant!

OmegaStarScream

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what ? Bitcoin core do have a GUI and it's not hard or complex to use at all .

Jet Cash

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https://JetCash.com

So here I am sitting in McDonalds looking at blockchain info and the core debug page, and a guy asks me what I am doing. I started to explain about Bitcoin, and he says he already knows about it. He doesn't trust on-line wallets because of Silk Road, Mt Gox and the like ( his comment). He would use a Bitcoin core wallet, but the page I showed him ( the standard core one) is too complex, and he didn't want to learn that much about Bitcoin before he used it. He asked why there isn't a GUI to simplify things for non-computer literate users.

So, is that a good question? and is it likely that someone will create an open source GUI for core users?

Topic: Should there be a GUI for Bitcoin core? - page 2. (Read 1747 times)