Should there be a way to preserve posts referenced in flags?

marlboroza

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Quote from: DaveF on April 19, 2020, 04:54:53 PM

Quote from: TECSHARE on April 19, 2020, 02:13:58 PM

Flags without a relevant reference post are automatically invalid.

That really does not work.
I can make a post giving out your name, address, social security number, etc. Basically full dox.

You create a flag against me. (As you should)
I then delete or edit the post.
If it has not been quoted somplace or archived someplace then you are saying your flag is invalid.

No.

You create topic and you place all relevant information in it. Then you create flag and link that topic. It is actually bad example because you can't archive investigation board. Anyway, create topic and place everything you can in it, it is the same as reference links to -ve, only little more "work".

DaveF

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Quote from: TECSHARE on April 19, 2020, 02:13:58 PM

Flags without a relevant reference post are automatically invalid.

That really does not work.
I can make a post giving out your name, address, social security number, etc. Basically full dox.

You create a flag against me. (As you should)
I then delete or edit the post.
If it has not been quoted somplace or archived someplace then you are saying your flag is invalid.

and as bob123 pointed out above:

Quote

the reference post has to be a link pointing towards a topic created on bitcointalk.org.

That is also part of the problem IMO.

-Dave

TECSHARE

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Flags without a relevant reference post are automatically invalid.

DireWolfM14

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I remember leaving that review for Percenter; he had posted the names of several members, along with bitcoin addresses which he associated with said members, and the address's balances. Some of the address had substantial balances, and I saw it as a breach of their privacy. I should have known the the post might get deleted. I can't remember if I reported the post or not, but I wanted to, so that also should have caused me to archive it, and included a link to the archive in the text of the review.

I'm a firm believer in providing references for the reviews I leave, and in this case I failed. It's just as important for the reviews as it is for flags. I agree that a new thread, or a post in one of the dedicate flag threads should be used as a reference, but may the same should be said for reviews.

I'm not sure how easy it would be for admin to scour the forum for a review or flag link to a specific thread as a reference, and then move them to archive instead of the trash bin. That could be an easy solution, but in the mean time we have to be careful about using references that could be deleted.

LoyceV

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Quote from: Jawhead999 on April 19, 2020, 10:48:24 AM

Hmm what about using archived link as the post reference in flag? Because archive post can't be deleted. Or it's not possible?

The Flag Reference has to be a topic on Bitcointalk.

Quote from: DaveF on April 19, 2020, 10:29:09 AM

However, taking a look at the flag in percenter's trust that was in bob123 post you get the "The topic or board you are looking for appears to be either missing or off limits to you." message.
It could be good flag and yeah it probably is. But there is no way to tell.

Sure there is, see View all unedited (or deleted) posts in Looking for owners of lost wallets.

The problem is using a scammer's own topic as a reference link, instead of creating a new topic in Scam Accusations. This can easily be prevented.

Quote from: DaveF on April 19, 2020, 12:22:19 PM

I found a few in my search that have either been deleted or pointing to what I assume is not the original content.
Now the ones I found were not that many, I think about 8 (not 100% sure was not keeping notes) were a small percentage of the about 75 I looked at but it's still a non trivial amount.

I've listed them all, see Trust Flag viewer: all Flags without a valid Reference topic. Just over 10% of all Flags (177 out of 1674) currently don't have a working Reference link.

You can post in Add comments to Flags on LoyceV's Trust Flag viewer to add a new URL to a Flag on my Trust Flag viewer:

Quote from: LoyceV on December 28, 2019, 08:58:14 AM

Flag 1264: The Reference topic has been deleted, see http://loyce.club/archive/topics/521/5219092.html for the unedited posts.

DaveF

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Quote from: bob123 on April 19, 2020, 11:15:29 AM

But nonetheless, the flag itself is valid.
A user who offers a wallet recovery service while being an alt of an account which got negative trust for engaging in spreading risky/malicious links/files while also having an active flag seems pretty solid enough for a warning flag.

Not debating that your flag is valid, I trust your judgement.

But having just spent some time looking at other flags this seems to be an issue, small issue but an issue all the same.

I found a few in my search that have either been deleted or pointing to what I assume is not the original content.
Now the ones I found were not that many, I think about 8 (not 100% sure was not keeping notes) were a small percentage of the about 75 I looked at but it's still a non trivial amount.

Does not matter if the mods deleted just that post or nuked the user and removed all the posts or the user edited the post after the the flag. It all comes down to that the post referenced in the flag now is useless.

So either the person making the flag has to do a 2nd step of using archive.is / .org / .whatever and then the 3rd step of linking it back to the flag in another post or we stand the chance of the rest of us not being 100% sure of the accuracy of the flag.

So how about an auto link to one of the archive sites when making the flag? I don't think it would take that much coding.

-Dave

marlboroza

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Quote from: bob123 on April 19, 2020, 11:15:29 AM

Quote from: marlboroza on April 19, 2020, 10:53:44 AM

Flag created by bob123 is not valid...

The link i used pointed towards a specific post in given thread.
However, somehow this simply gut cut off when creating the flag. So the real reference post is now the reference post of the red trust, which states the reason for the flag.

Weird behavior. Nothing i can do about now.
If i would have known that links to specific pages/posts get cut off, i would have created a separate thread.

That's my mistake, and i admit it.

But nonetheless, the flag itself is valid.
A user who offers a wallet recovery service while being an alt of an account which got negative trust for engaging in spreading risky/malicious links/files while also having an active flag seems pretty solid enough for a warning flag.

I am sorry, I didn't see that flag for account percenter was created by account MagicByt3, I was talking about that flag. That one is invalid, it points to not existing topic.

Your flag on the other hand points to "known alts of any-one" topic, but I can't find any information about account walletrecovery, at least I couldn't find it in spreadsheet.

Quote from: bob123 on April 19, 2020, 11:15:29 AM

For clarification:
The reference link for the flag i entered was https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.54255920.
This got cut off to https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/known-alts-of-any-one-a-user-generated-list-mk-iii-2021-q2-2544574

Yes, that is something which must be linked in topic:

Quote

You must link to a topic documenting your specific concerns.

So it is also not valid but if you tell timelord to update topic it could make your flag valid...technicalities Wink

bob123

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Quote from: Jawhead999 on April 19, 2020, 10:48:24 AM

Hmm what about using archived link as the post reference in flag?

That's what i tried.
But the reference post has to be a link pointing towards a topic created on bitcointalk.org.

Quote from: marlboroza on April 19, 2020, 10:53:44 AM

Flag created by bob123 is not valid...

The link i used pointed towards a specific post in given thread.
However, somehow this simply gut cut off when creating the flag. So the real reference post is now the reference post of the red trust, which states the reason for the flag.

Weird behavior. Nothing i can do about now.
If i would have known that links to specific pages/posts get cut off, i would have created a separate thread.

That's my mistake, and i admit it.

But nonetheless, the flag itself is valid.
A user who offers a wallet recovery service while being an alt of an account which got negative trust for engaging in spreading risky/malicious links/files while also having an active flag seems pretty solid enough for a warning flag.

For clarification:
The reference link for the flag i entered was https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.54255920.
This got cut off to https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/known-alts-of-any-one-a-user-generated-list-mk-iii-2021-q2-2544574

marlboroza

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Activity: 1932

Merit: 2272

You need to create new topic and link it in flag. Evidence sometimes disappear so use web archives:

http://web.archive.org
archive.is

....and include archived links to topic. That's pretty much it. Or, if you need to flag users for very similar scam, you can do something like this https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/stake-flags-for-ponzi-schemes-here-5157698.

Flag created by bob123 is not valid...

Jawhead999

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Merit: 1208

Hmm what about using archived link as the post reference in flag? Because archive post can't be deleted. Or it's not possible?

Sorry if I'm wrong, since I never created flag and left my feedback to someone till now

DaveF

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So,
I posted in this thread:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/is-it-dangerous-to-load-other-peoples-wallet-files-in-the-bitcoin-client-5241531

bob123 made another post noting this:

Quote from: bob123 on April 19, 2020, 10:07:47 AM

Since walletrecovery seemed quite sketchy to me, i did 5 minutes of research.

It turned out that he is an alt of percenter who has negative trust ratings and a valid flag open against him.

Check this post for more information.

I advise anyone to not deal with this user in any way.

However, taking a look at the flag in percenter's trust that was in bob123 post you get the "The topic or board you are looking for appears to be either missing or off limits to you." message.
It could be good flag and yeah it probably is. But there is no way to tell. Heck I don't even know what the flag was *for* at this point.
Ponzi scheme? Posting malware? Scamcoin shilling? Bad yo mamma so fat jokes?

LoyceV, MagicByt3, leo99 all supported it but now nobody else can.

Now, yeah I know if I look at the trust left by DireWolfM14 and then look at the link in the reference for it I can go to loyce.club and pull the post but that is a lot of work and may not be available on every flag.

Any thoughts?

Stay safe.

-Dave

Topic: Should there be a way to preserve posts referenced in flags? (Read 260 times)