Topic: Should Ukraine Surrender? (Read 352 times)

If Ukraine should surrender Putin will start feeling too superior to other nations. It might might even warrant the Russians to demand for world power at some point. Since The US, NATO and other countries is backing Ukraine they should hold on to their decisions. I wish NATO and The US can push Putin to a corner where he will have no other option but to surrender.

It, or a certain phase of it, ends pretty much like this:

  https://www.bitchute.com/video/iXAD5fBymkKp/

The woman who makes these things is an fuckin genius, but there are a lot of things she's leaving out.  Probably deliberately, and I'm guessing she is aware of them.  Playlist:

  https://www.bitchute.com/playlist/8OQ1i93JQCW4/

The problem you need to know better is that the decision is not in the hands of President Zelenksy, but whether to surrender or continue to fight with Russia is decided by the US. And if I were the president of the United States, I would never stop this war, I would give a lot of weapons and ammunition to Ukraine to fight the last Ukrainian. If Ukraine loses, I won't lose anything, but if Ukraine wins, I will have a lot of benefits behind that. The national interest must come first, if anyone dies out there, I can't take care of it all.

That actually looks to me as a solution but whether they should do it or not depends upon consequences of the surrender because if it would lead to Annexation of Ukrain or it being part of Russia it makes no sense what so ever to surrender. But if it means losing just a small piece of territory and good relations with Russia moving forward it really could be the best option but obviously it will look like a big defeat both for Ukraine and the NATO, not only that it might make Russia think it can anytime start a war with Ukraine to get new areas from them.

I think Ukraine will not surrender but both of them, after realizing that they've been dummies for too long, will come to the negotiating table.  There will be no victory for either side, or even so, it has a lot of formal impact.  They all suffered heavy losses.

^^^ Zelensky doesn't really have any choice in the matter. He's only a puppet for the US and Nato. The US and Nato are the ones who won't let Ukraine surrender.

If you do listen to Ukraine's President's speech on the news once in a while, you will get to find out that Zelensky is not yet ready to surrender to Russia's President "Putin" very soon. He keeps making emphasis that the war will be won by them(Ukraine), and they are not given up on the fight until victory is sure for them. I don't know what's giving him the courage to say so. Is it the support from Nato or the kind of aircraft for war and military he has at his command?

The least that both countries can do, is call for a peace talk. As for one to surrender for the other will be difficult.

I think if the both countries come to an agreement or Ukraine surrendering will bring lasting peace to the two countries then they should surrender and safe some more lives, war is not a good thing and it shouldn't happen to any country we need lasting peace in our society, war don't bring lasting peace , war brings disposition and unsettlement, it brings lost of lives and properties.

The both countries Should come to an agreement so there will be lasting peace between them , peace Should be given a chance between them.

The president of Ukraine should take into account the damage done to his country's economy and infrastructure, as well as the lives of its people, and back down; doing so does not indicate weakness, but rather the love he has for his people. In my opinion, what they are losing because of this Russian war is bigger than what they will achieve.

Ukraine won't just surrender not because they can win the war on there own but surrendering will mean the end of their nationhood and they won't do it to put a smile in anyone's face at all. People can't believe how Ukraine still has the determination and courage to continue the war despite the help from other NETO countries, I believe that if it was some other countries by now the war would have come to an end, who knows what would have happened if it is said that Russian won or has taken completely over.

So Russia will likely keep those annexed territories they got from Ukraine, which I personally believe to be unacceptable.
Since then in this modern era a huge country can invade a smaller country and annex land from it at their whim? It sound something we were supposed be leave behind in the 20th century.

Average people watch this, and sit around asking each other the question, "Why? I thought we were at least trading partners with Russia. After all, it wasn't Russia who turned off the gas. At least not until we wouldn't pay them because of the sanctions."

So, you see that the whole thing started with the US and Nato... pushing their way in to take over Russia. And the people have to suffer because they don't know how to get rid of their a**h**e leaders.

Even if Zelensky is tired and I am sure he is tired, he cannot surrender because it has indirectly been exposed by a statement from Annalena Baerbock a German Foreign Minister that the war is between NATO and Russia and Ukraine just happen to be the battleground.

Watch this video on twitter;
https://twitter.com/SnakeEyez45/status/1618264767919161345?t=YxTAPX7WgFnRRtq1yFCpTA&s=19

Few people look at the big picture.

Russia is a country that moved into a more-or-less non-war status starting in 1991. They moved into a position of starting to trade with the other nations of the world rather than fight with them.

Right now, Russia is starting to move back into a war mode. In their skirmishes with Ukraine, they were simply using standard peace-time "police-like" actions. But since the US and Nato relentlessly insist on making war (through Ukraine rather than directly), Russia is moving back into war mode.

Don't think that I am on the side of Russia. By warning Ukraine's people here and there, I am simply showing them that what they are doing is not practical.

It is true that a fiercely dedicated country who are willing to die for their cause, can overcome a more powerful country. Burt the Ukrainian people are divided. They are not fiercely unified in their action. Basically, they will fail in their endeavors in this war.

How do we know that the people are divided? By the millions that left the country because they didn't like the direction their government was moving. These people are still Ukrainians, and still have influence and love for those they left behind. You can bet that they are communicating with loved ones still in Ukraine, and that many of them are suggesting to them that they stop their fighting and live rather than die.

They're burning through fighting aged men. So is Russia, but no one can reasonably act like this is sustainable.

The U.S. wants a positive ROI on the military spending they've done on behalf of Ukraine, so they won't let it end too soon. The U.S. is hoping to save money in the Middle East when fighting Russian backed groups by having Ukraine decimate the Russian army for them. While Russia is in Ukraine, they won't be in the Middle East or supporting U.S. adversaries in the Middle East. I haven't checked if the math quite works out -- that the 50B+ the U.S. has spent in Ukraine is more/less than that spent in Middle Eastern proxy wars against Russia, but I'm sure the U.S. is hoping to get their money back and then some.

For the interests of the people of Ukraine, I think they should reconsider because they are the victim, allowing united state and United Kingdom to play politics with their sovereignty will only do them more harm, the point they trying to prove is pointless to me

I am very concerned about what is happening, from the two warring countries. in fact, it is innocent people who bear this suffering. to be honest, whenever i read threads over this conflict going on. it's really sad, we who are outside of their war zone.  got the impact, with the food crisis, the post-covid global economic collapse and now Ukraine vs Russia. Various ways have been carried out by many countries, to find a peaceful solution.

In fact, on several occasions our President Jokowi Widodo visited the two presidents of the two warring countries. the only representative from Asia who tried to bridge the gap to end this long-standing conflict. referring to what you said in your thread, I am not in a capacity as a responder to your question. Perhaps, for the Ukrainian people and nation, freedom is everything. on the other hand, the Russian invasion will not stop until they get what they want.

I can only pray from a land far away from Ukraine and Russia, that they may find a middle ground for peace and for humanity.

To resolve a conflict there two things involved.  1. The two parties most seize fire if really they are ready to stop the war. 2 . The two conflicting parties most send educated elites for the litigation. And make the two send out delegates have understanding to handle the outcome of the resolution.

Conflict never stay forever, there must be a resolution in all conflicts. But remember conflict is a continuous thing

There are 2 questions in this thread and the answer is the same in both cases.
1. Should Ukraine surrender at this point?
No. It's winning! Russians were pushed back and Ukraine managed to perform successful attacks on various infrastructure within Russia.

2. What would you do if you were the president?
I'd keep fighting and doing as much damage as possible to force Russians to negotiate. I'd demand Russians to move to the other side of the border. As long as they're on the Ukrainian side, I'd threaten to keep hitting targets in Russia, like bridges and airports, fuel and ammo depots. They have no reason to be on Ukrainian side and if they agreed to ceasefire I'd allow them to safely evacuate everything and go back to Russia.

^^^ Ukraine doesn't want peace. They have been killing people and destroying property in the Donbas and other areas since at least 2014. All they want is to make it look like Russia is the aggressor.

Does Russia want peace? Well, think about it. They gave freedom to a whole bunch of Satellite countries in 1991 so that there would be peace. While it's true that they fought skirmishes here and there since 1991, most of the time they were trying to act like the US. All they were doing were police actions here and there, just like the US has done in dozens of places around the world.

Russia might have a few military bases in a few countries. But it is nothing like the number of military bases the US has around the world... just to maintain the peace, they say. Since the funding and armament of Ukraine is the real proof that Ukraine is a military base for the US, it is the US that doesn't want peace.

Ukraine HAS already surrendered... to the United States. This is the reason why they are fighting in this Russian police action. It is US prompted and US promoted. Ukraine needs to clean out its corrupt government, bring back the millions of their people who have fled the war to other countries, and take a proper vote of all its people. If they did that, they would side with Russia long before they would side with the US.

We can't say they should surrounder because I myself know that they won't surrounder, our people say he who fight and run away is expected to fight another day, in this case as they have refused to listen to the government or anyone, so they can stop the fight, let them continue the fight, so we can know the winners of the fight, we all wants peace, but they don't want it.

^^^ Even now Japan is a country that values honor. When they surrendered in WW2, they had to decide which was more honorable:
1. To admit that they lost the war and surrender;
2. To be destroyed as a nation... maybe entirely nuked.

When Ukraine is totally destroyed, many people will honor their big sacrifice, and their fortitude in not giving up until they all died. In a couple of decades, most people will have forgotten all about Ukraine.

If Zelensky would decided to surrender, he won't have any future in Ukraine and his faith will be similar like Yanukovych, or probably much worse. Ask Ukrainians what do they think about it. They better will live without electricity and heating than in Russian occupation. And as said above, surrender now would be insult for people who died defending their country. I'm not even sure why this questions is considered now. Ukraine is moved from praying for Kyiv not to fall in early days of war to Ukraine recovering occupied territories now and hitting airbases deep in territory of Russia, far away from front line.
BTW, I noticed that some spammers here started to spread agenda that Putin is showing his good will, ready to negotiate, but stubborn Zelensky is against it and he prefer to continue war. It's ridiculous.

Just be glad Dmitry Medvedev isn't running Russia any longer. If he were still there, Russia would have been building a massive military for the last 5 to 10 years, and Ukraine wouldn't have been any obstacle at all. There simply wouldn't be a Ukraine.

You're making a great point, the involvement of the US and NATO is actually one of the reasons the war has prolonged. I believe if it was just Russia and Ukraine, they would have sorted out their issues before now. Probably through negotiations.

Putin needs to die two or three Russian generals need to "commit" suicide and then Russia can fully leave and also surrender the part of the Ukraine they took back in 2014.

All other endings will be a fucking mess for the entire world.

Russia can simple say this was Putin and the 2/3 dead generals fault and we gave you back the disputed part of Ukraine.

Then they can hunker down and figure a different way to win back the Ukraine. In 2056 or so.

This does not mean I flavor the Ukraine over Russia. It means I am a realist and the price to continue the war is too costly at this time. (for all the world not just for Ukraine or Russia)

"Peace" is how the real Nazis of the 1930s (not those imaginary neonazis that Putin is dreaming about in his head) literally butchered up smaller countries to make them part of Germany (cf. Austria, Czechoslovakia).

Haven taken time to observe the crisis rocking Ukraine and Russia, if I where to be the president of Ukraine, I would have called for peace and asked for us to come to a compromise. It is always said that, he who fights and run away leaves to fight another, but he that is battle slain, will never rise to fight another day. Obviously we can all see that Ukraine is almost going into extinct, as a leader, this would have been the best time to throw in the towel.

Since the Ukraine has surrendered to the US - I mean, they are going to want reimbursement for all the money they have given to Ukraine - the only question is how long the US will keep on holding them up. Sure, Biden has guaranteed to remain with Ukraine as long as it takes, but he might be out of the presidency in 2024. It seems that the US is already slowing down regarding its support for Ukraine.

So, the question is, will Ukraine surrender to Russia the nest time it surrenders?

Surrendering isn't an option and it's an insult to the people who died defending the country. But if you ask whether I (as an imaginary president) would dare to challenge Russia... Hell no! I'll negotiate the shit out of some peace agreement, playing safe instead of war.

For the end game, I don't think the term would be "surrender" though. It would be a "peace agreement" with all parties involved, including NATO.

I don't think Ukrainians have a choice. They will be eliminating Russians until the last Rashist is either eliminated or leaves Ukraine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5MyOZ4VQRk

I think both parties should negotiate and come up with terms of peace. Both parties have paid dearly for this war and they have suffered irreplaceable losses. But the main problem now would be the terms of peace. Would Ukraine be willing to cede its occupied territories to Russia or will the latter just withdraw peacefully? I think both parties should be willing to make sacrifices so that his negotiations would be fruitful. I don't think Ukraine would surrender because NATO has not shown any sign of support withdrawal.

Ukraine should better hold talk with Putin,and forget about NATO. They can't win Russia if Russia declare total war on them. It's better they Ukraine surrender now and seek peace than to perish forever. Because no one is going to rescue them from Russia.

This kind of way cannot be surrendered by Ukraine because they have gone far to this stage it has gotten and only need more time to got the whole attention over the war into a finishing point, presently now if you consider the side most affected then you could bring in a suggestion for surrendering since they have suffered alot, but here the intended Ukraine isn't loosing nor being defeated as thought and expected and all the required actions lies in with employing the starter for an end to the menace if so wish by them and consider what's been lost even from their own capacity.

I think that Ukraine will have to surrender. Most likely, the peace treaty will be signed not by Zelensky, but probably by Zaluzhny. Zelensky is likely to be eliminated by Western intelligence services, this is waste material, a political corpse.

Ukraine will not surrender because it is not just about Zelensky anymore, but the NATO and US joining force to support Ukraine. If it was only Zelensky,he will surrender and negotiate with Putin. So many countries are now involved in this war and that is why it is still going on,assuming it was just the two countries, it wouldn't have lasted up to this time. Putin has seen that the war isn't the way he thought it will turn out to be and has seen that it will be difficult to win,with so much damage done to the country,that is why he will accept negotiation for peace to reign.

day by day, news of the war between Ukraine vs Russia is getting complicated, Ukraine continues to be supported by the US and NATO, and i don't know what the US and NATO's agenda is to continue to provoke a war between these 2 countries.  Putin continues to say that he is willing to negotiate to find the best solution for the future of the two countries, but Ukraine says that it will not give up on Russia because they have the full support of the US.  In fact, there are also many people who speculate that Ukraine will surrender if Zelenksy resigns from his position.

  I don't think Zelenksy would be backing out anytime soon and according to this post https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/omg-putin-ready-to-negotiate-5431420, Putin could be looking to seek reconciliation, but the question is will Zelenksy give a listening ear and see reason?

We're all away of the lingering crisis which has befallen Ukraine since its invasion by the Russian military. Since then all effort put in place to restore peace has so far proven abortive. Lives and properties have been destroyed and billions of dollars spent yet, Russia has refused to back off and Ukraine refused to surrender.

Now I'm pushed to ask if you were to be the Ukraine president, would you consider to surrender so as to stop this continuous destruction or prefer to continue the defense?