Shower thought. If nations/states/governments are accumulating Bitcoin, then - page 3.

Wind_FURY

legendary

Activity: 2898

Merit: 1823

Quote from: crwth on September 17, 2019, 02:00:29 AM

I don't know if governments would want something like Bitcoin to be accumulated by them. Imagine a centralized entity using a decentralized currency.

To go around economic sanctions imposed to some countries, for example the United States' sanctions on Iran, North Korea, China, or Venezuela.

Quote

There are a couple of things that governments would not like about bitcoin.

The Trust that it has value.
- Imagine FIAT currency, they have value because the government says they have value
- They want it to be backed with tangible assets
They want control over the currency (which is not possible for Bitcoin)
They can't control the maximum supply
Crime Concerns (with all the media and news surrounding it, I don't know if they will trust it)

I think there are more to be discussed, but that's just came from the top of my head. I believe they have other concerns rather than this one. Unless the Leader of that country believes in the currency, that would be a different story all over.

But censorship-resistance is Bitcoin's value proposition, it can be a powerful tool for a country/nation/government.

pooya87

legendary

Activity: 3472

Merit: 10611

if bitcoin could help these countries go around the sanctions and help with their transactions then it would have made some sense to me but since it can't (being small and too volatile) i don't think it is plausible. besides if accumulation were the goal of the governments then they could have simply impose new tax laws on anybody who owns bitcoin to pay a portion of it to the revenue services, that way in no time without any cost they would accumulate a lot of bitcoins no matter what the price of it is at that time.

Darker45

legendary

Activity: 2576

Merit: 1860

Quote from: Wind_FURY on September 17, 2019, 01:49:35 AM

I believe they must be doing it in secret. What would be the advantage for North Korea, or Iran, to let everyone know that they are accumulating/mining/HODLING?

That to me is a far-fetched idea. Why would the governments buy something that [1.] they might know a little or nothing about, [2.] does not have any guarantee of appreciation over time, [3.] could not be influenced by them or even invited for possible negotiation/arrangement, [4.] might be a direct threat to the very system they are operating and benefiting under, [5.] and most importantly, cannot be made a secret?

To a rogue and eccentric country such as North Korea though, it could possibly happen.

mk4

legendary

Activity: 2940

Merit: 3883

📟 t3rminal.xyz

Quote from: meanwords on September 17, 2019, 08:18:19 PM

Maybe, the governments are accumulating Bitcoins in order to study it. In order to prevent bad things that might happen. We all know Bitcoin is semi-anonymous. The government will use Bitcoin in order to detect those criminals that use Bitcoin. I mean, not just in North Korea but in the other country as well.

The government can freely trace people's transactions without holding a single satoshi though. Because you know, Bitcoin has an open and public blockchain that can be inspected by literally anyone that has a computer and internet. Unless of course, that they're conducting dust attacks[1].

[1] https://medium.com/chainrift-research/bitcoins-attack-vectors-dust-attacks-9040edee2986

d.kevin29

member

Activity: 112

Merit: 72

Quote from: meanwords on September 17, 2019, 08:18:19 PM

Maybe, the governments are accumulating Bitcoins in order to study it. In order to prevent bad things that might happen. We all know Bitcoin is semi-anonymous. The government will use Bitcoin in order to detect those criminals that use Bitcoin. I mean, not just in North Korea but in the other country as well.

But I believe that some politicians are accumulating Bitcoin for the reason of profit.

Accumulating BTC to study the cryptocurrency? How does that even make sense?

Bad actions and criminals will never be prevented. They'll always find a way and no matter what currency they have to work with, they'll do it. If a man has an evil mindset, you can't stop it. BTC is used for crimes less than fiat, trust me.

d.kevin29

member

Activity: 112

Merit: 72

A government accumulating Bitcoin is against what we're looking for: decentralization. It might still be decentralized as a currency, but if a government holds a huge percentage of coins then they control the majority of those in circulation.

I actually see there is a big chance this government accumulation is already happening. There are only a few (4 or 5 IIRC) countries that made BTC tax-exempt. BTC and precious metals should be tax exempt without any doubt, but here we are... living on a close to $200.000.000.000.000 world debt. That's what BTC is for, and that's why they don't like BTC: they can't cheat.

meanwords

full member

Activity: 1624

Merit: 163

Maybe, the governments are accumulating Bitcoins in order to study it. In order to prevent bad things that might happen. We all know Bitcoin is semi-anonymous. The government will use Bitcoin in order to detect those criminals that use Bitcoin. I mean, not just in North Korea but in the other country as well.

But I believe that some politicians are accumulating Bitcoin for the reason of profit.

lobat999

sr. member

Activity: 1078

Merit: 310

I bet some countries are experimenting on how best to use these cryptos to circumvent detection on their illicit transactions.
Take the case of Iran, they are under heavy economic sanctions by the U.N. and I think they could find it attractive to use
crypto to channel their funds to make different transactions thereby minimizing the effects of these sanctions.

figmentofmyass

legendary

Activity: 1652

Merit: 1483

Quote from: BrewMaster on September 17, 2019, 08:57:26 AM

i personally can't see any incentive for the governments to accumulate bitcoin.

maybe not today since bitcoin is still so new and unproven.

but think about the big picture. what's gonna happen if reserve currencies start collapsing? let's say the USA government defaults on its debt and the entire world starts unwinding their USD exposure. chances are this would create liquidity crises in multiple major economies. we could see the collapse of several major fiat currencies in succession.

smart governments are hedging against this eventuality by accumulating gold. in a global currency reset, chances are we will return to the pre-fiat systems of asset-backed money, so gold will be an obvious hedge. but theoretically this relationship should extend to other assets, especially for capital liquidity purposes---the global economy can't just be restricted to the gold supply. in a decade or three (which is a realistic time frame for a USA default) bitcoin could definitely be one of those assets.

squatter

legendary

Activity: 1666

Merit: 1196

STOP SNITCHIN'

Quote from: Wind_FURY on September 17, 2019, 01:49:35 AM

I believe they must be doing it in secret. What would be the advantage for North Korea, or Iran, to let everyone know that they are accumulating/mining/HODLING?

Naturally. When huge investors try to enter a market, they do it slowly and quietly. They don't announce their presence. It only makes sense to disclose their position after they're done buying. Until then it's only rational to stay quiet, or maybe even engage in FUD campaigns to keep prices down.

The US and Bulgaria both had a chance to own a huge chunk of the total supply. They auctioned off the bitcoins instead. In the future, this will be the best way for governments to accumulate -- seize them from alleged criminals. And stop auctioning them off...

Artemis3

legendary

Activity: 2030

Merit: 1573

CLEAN non GPL infringing code made in Rust lang

Quote from: Wind_FURY on September 17, 2019, 01:49:35 AM

I believe they must be doing it in secret. What would be the advantage for North Korea, or Iran, to let everyone know that they are accumulating/mining/HODLING?

The same as with gold reserves, but without the incurred costs of custody and storage, or transport...

As long as they learned how to properly make and handle cold wallets its the smart move to do for long term preserving of value.

Carlton Banks

legendary

Activity: 3430

Merit: 3083

Quote from: BrewMaster on September 17, 2019, 08:57:26 AM

but why?

or even provide some evidence. as you say, there is an endless amount of possibilities we can speculate about. arguably, it's usually not productive to do so

Quote from: BrewMaster on September 17, 2019, 08:57:26 AM

conspiracy

It would only be a conspiracy if it were illegal to buy Bitcoin in that country. there aren't many countries where owning or buying Bitcoin is against the law, and the government is unlikely to prosecute themselves anyway

hence, states buying BTC is not and never will be a conspiracy

please learn what "conspiracy" actually means, basically

Tipstar

sr. member

Activity: 1932

Merit: 300

Nations, States and Government are dynamic entities and they changes over time. So, I don't think any of them would accumulate bitcoin as such. If they do, they'd do in privately.
We have seen rich Chinese and Russians buying bitcoin to hide their wealth from the state. Large political leaders in Venezuela and North Korea buying bitcoins for a secure future.
And it could be similar in everywhere else.

pawanjain

hero member

Activity: 2702

Merit: 716

Nothing lasts forever

Quote from: BrewMaster on September 17, 2019, 08:57:26 AM

but why?
every conspiracy theory in my opinion should not just talk about what ifs but why.

Ever thought of a 'How' ?

How would the government be accumulating bitcoins ?

While they can simply buy lots of bitcoins and hold it, it would create a suspicion since the price would surge.
There is another way of accumulating while not creating any suspicion and that is by acquiring the bitcoins caught in theft and scams.
Almost every country would have registered cases where people have lost bitcoins and other cryptocurrencies.
While most of them would obviously have not yet been solved, there are many who have been caught and the cops seized a shit ton of bitcoins from them.
Just google 'cops seized bitcoin' and the results will speak out for itself.

Where do you think all those bitcoins are going ?

avikz

legendary

Activity: 3080

Merit: 1500

Quote from: Wind_FURY on September 17, 2019, 01:49:35 AM

I believe they must be doing it in secret. What would be the advantage for North Korea, or Iran, to let everyone know that they are accumulating/mining/HODLING?

I doubt any such thing is happening!! North Korea is ruled under a dictatorship so can't tell for sure! But for the other governments, it seems impossible! Countries believe in a centralized economy and bitcoin or any other cryptos are directly against that centralized value! So they would not "waste" their "valuable" fiat against something that directly contradicts with their own belief!

For N. KOREA, it may be possible because they simply don't bother about the rest of the world!

mk4

legendary

Activity: 2940

Merit: 3883

📟 t3rminal.xyz

Quote from: BrewMaster on September 17, 2019, 08:57:26 AM

but why?

While I'm definitely not saying that this is the case, but one possibility(though I kinda slightly doubt it) is that some countries thinks bitcoin actually has a decent chance of being successful in a wider scale. If bitcoin actually becomes a reserve currency in the future, then hey. Grabbing a good amount of bitcoins probably wouldn't hurt and it would definitely put them in a great position. But then again, this is just speculation. I doubt the government has an appetite for speculative assets.

Juliedarwin

full member

Activity: 462

Merit: 100

Quote from: Wind_FURY on September 17, 2019, 01:49:35 AM

I believe they must be doing it in secret. What would be the advantage for North Korea, or Iran, to let everyone know that they are accumulating/mining/HODLING?

I think for me some countries are really accepting and accumulating bitcoin and maybe others are not. Everyone knows that bitcoin are plenty of benifits and other uses really worth it.

mersal

member

Activity: 1204

Merit: 38

Quote from: Wind_FURY on September 17, 2019, 01:49:35 AM

I believe they must be doing it in secret. What would be the advantage for North Korea, or Iran, to let everyone know that they are accumulating/mining/HODLING?

Literally governments may not have more benefits if they accumulate cryptos and let the fiat to depreciate but they might be doing it for the good future of their people so they are showing that they are different from the developed countries in the world when it comes to supporting their citizen?

BrewMaster

legendary

Activity: 2128

Merit: 1293

There is trouble abrewing

but why?
every conspiracy theory in my opinion should not just talk about what ifs but why. otherwise there is no end to crazy things you can come up with!
i personally can't see any incentive for the governments to accumulate bitcoin.
if it is for control, there are a lot of different ways they could control bitcoin (eg banning its usage) or its market (by injecting fiat that they print in it),...
if it is for money, similarly there are other better ways of making money. governments don't concern themselves with this type of profit!

NeuroticFish

legendary

Activity: 3668

Merit: 6382

Looking for campaign manager? Contact icopress!

There could be accumulating in order to manipulate markets and make easy money - Kim's minions may do that easily.
Or there can be the typical accumulation - and here you've forgot about China which tries to buy anything available.
Or, they can use it for trades behind curtains, to avoid various international bans.

This may be happening already for years, just we are too small fishes to find out. But if it happens, it's OK: it's one more proof for "the infidels" that Bitcoin works.

And for the ones that will come and tell it's not OK: if you ban one currency, another one will take its place. The "good guys" have to do better in stopping the trade, history has shown that the attempts to control the money flow have failed.

Topic: Shower thought. If nations/states/governments are accumulating Bitcoin, then - page 3. (Read 734 times)