Topic: Signature Campaigns taxes - page 11. (Read 26475 times)

And how can they prove that it's not legal? In court you're innocent until proven otherwise. You can't prove the origin of your money and they can't prove that those money come from an illegal source.
 
And what if they tell you that this "campaign" was only a fake cover to pay you for selling drugs or some other illegal activity? You got paid from an address that has no ID. It can belong to some forum vatar and that's where the trail ends. This forum member could be your pimp for all they care. You can't prove much but so can't they.

I think the posters (me included) got a bit tied up by hammering too much on one single aspect. Your current post perfectly indicates how it is completely legal to buy whatever you want with the money in your bank account originating from signature campaign earnings. No one will be able to prevent you from buying properties with it. And yes, holding a great deal of wealth isn't worth much if you can't legally utilize it, which is partly why I accepted paying tax over my crypto profits recently.

But (and once again) why should this be a problem, when:

1) The activity is perfectly legal (getting paid in bitcoins for posting in an internet forum is a legal activity as far as I know)
2) The funds can be proven to come from such legal activity (namely, by providing the required cryptographic proof that you own the addresses in which one got paid in)

Given 1 and 2 and after paying whatever taxes required, how it wouldn't be possible to have that money in your bank ready to buy some property with?

I refuse to think that we are criminals by posting in here and we can't never use that money to buy some real estate with in 10 years once 1 BTC is worth $1million. Are you going to simply sit your ass on several millions which you cannot use? pretty dumb. We need to get this sorted.

There is no answer because legally that's impossible to accomplish. One could cash out his coins to fiat through an over-the-counter trade, but that again would raise suspicions about the main source of your capital. If you can't provide sufficient proof of capital source, and that's not possible without blowing your cover, then you simply don't stand a single chance. People think they can outsmart the government, which to a certain extent might be true, but not in this specific case. It could however be that you let your relatives set up a ghost business, book in your signature campaign income as revenue, pay your due taxes, and there you have 'clean' capital, but once again, it's not a legal way of accomplishing your goal, and requires you to follow a complicated alternative road. People should just accept that things some times don't work.

For now nobody pay any taxes and I think never will. The amount of those money that people earn here is so small and not regulary that nobody simply will not bother with such sums and calculations.
Maybe in future the government will count cryto earnings as business and will trak every concrete person who earn money this way, but thanks God we are free from this for now.

That is not the problem. It's obvious that if you are getting paid in bitcoins in here, the government isn't going to know unless you report it, I don't see them bothering asking theymos for IP records or something, and most people use proxies anyway, for safety reasons in here, since using your real IP in here isn't very bright due all the scammers trying to dox each other.

The real problem is, how the hell do you properly cash out your bitcoins if you want to buy a house with them? because there's no way you are going to avoid the government knowing if you want to buy a house with your signature campaign gains across the years. So far none has given a real answer to this.

That is right, it really hard for the government to see that you are earning from campaign here, it will took a lot of time and a great finder in blockchain, besides signatures campaigns are just temporary thing so I don't think that the government will gonna focus here but in trading for sure.

Then how are you supposed to prove that your signature campaign earnings are of legal origin? Because if you can't prove it, it would mean that you can never cash out, otherwise you risk that they put you in jail, worst case scenario, which is insane since one earned the money legally.

And how it isn't proof? You have all the forum posts pointing at the origin of the transaction being from the signature campaigns.

Has anyone cashed out money from signature campaigns? (enough for it to be relevant for the authorities)

It isn't. Nobody can prove that you Mr. John Doe had received x number of Bitcoins worth y from Mr. James Brown, who was paying for signature advertising on a forum in March 2018. At least unless Mr. Doe decided to register on exchange, wire bitcoins from that address to an exchange and then to his bank and not pay taxes.

If you are earning a substantial amount of money per year in the form of signature campaigns then you must pay your dues when ever your convert these coins to fiat currency,i am not planning to sell any coins at the moment and so i am not worried about it.

If you are converting to fiat currency you are entitled to pay your taxes and it all depends upon their existing income tax rules.

Sad for those who have strict countries that implements taxes in all of your earnings, and felt so lucky because our government here allows us to use and make money here in crypto without any obligation at all to pay tax.

Wow, that is true? it's insane then, a 160k fine for only 5k? This is why im saying, be sure of what you are doing everytime you put money in the bank, specially when it comes to bitcoin.

As far as the other guy, yes, anyone knows what receipts are, the problem is, bitcoin has no traditional receipts, you simply get paid. When you sign up with a signature campaign, you just get paid, there are no contracts, and no traditional receipts made between parties, there's only the transaction as proof that A went to B.

Now you must prove what A is (in this case, the signature campaign manager, paying you for the job) and B (the bitcoin address you control).

The question: How is this proven? what is enough and accepted proof? A screenshot of the signature campaign transaction to your account? you must also cryptographically sign your bitcoin address? What if you moved your coins from address B somewhere else and it's now empty? does this matter? etc etc. It's way more complex than traditional freelance gigs. Unless I have that clear im not selling anything, not going to risk them ruining my savings, it's all I have.

I think depending on the countries they have taxed. In this cryptocurrency market no one can say in advance something nice. No one will assert that will stick with this market for a long time. Many countries do not accept it, which is a sad thing for the bitcoin market

Sure, the amounts you can get from signature campaigns are very small, but some people have been making bitcoin gains since the early bitcoin signature campaigns. Back then you could make up to 1BTC a month just posting in here. A lot of people have asked this before, since they now find themselves with a lot of money made posting on some internet forum, so if you want to diversify and buy real estate... how are you going to buy your house in the beach if you don't report your gains?

I don't know anyone that has gone through this, so im pretty scared that they will not accept the explanations given (that the money was made on an internet forum) so im not going to sell anything for now unless they have clear guidelines, otherwise be aware that you are the government's guinea pig and you have to expect anything.

First of all, I would keep track of all the payments you got on signature campaigns, and save screenshots too of the threads, I guess that would be enough proof. But then you would need to prove that you own the addresses in which you got paid... does the government accept signed addresses? do they even understand the process?

This is all too new and I have no idea what to expect, so like I said, im holding and not diversifying until it's perfectly clear what's going to happen, otherwise you risk that they confiscate your money the very second it hits your bank account, and they may (or not) accept your explanations. If they decide they are not clear, you may lose your money... im not looking forward to lose money that I earned perfectly legal, that is why im simply holding and watching and learning about it. It is again, only sane to hold your coins to nto be a guinea pig, until your government clearly sets the guidelines for special cases like signature campaign gains.

Im interested in how this thread will develop. We need more information on this topic.

Well, in Spain you do have to pay taxes even if you never exchanged bitcoins for fiat. There is however a limit you have to reach before you have to declare anything, which is only 1k euros. He is scared because if you get caught you can be in serious trouble. If you deposit 5k euros in any bank here, they will ask you where they came from and if you can't prove how you obtained them, you will be charged with 160k euros fine and possible jail time as well.

By this you rent your advertising space,It may pertains as an advertising service or rental service,As I know, in many Countries rental business is not easily controlled even real estate,I've heard about this as in developing countries as in developed...at the same time our 'income is not as big to control,I think it takes a lot of time and finances for special authorities,which is not favorable condition for them,Maybe I'm wrong,that's my opinion but its fact,noone will start  monitoring forums for this today,but if someone's income is not as small as ours of course monitoring service will focus on it.

You're getting all fired up with that jail and "being wrong", money laundering and other stuff.
To clarify:
1. I don't consider not sharing information about my private possession with anyone as wrong. That's my personal attitude and belief and I'm not going to change that.
2. Here in Europe, in most countries you are supposed to pay taxes from realized gains, so until you spend your coins you don't have to pay or report anything. By law you're supposed to pay when you make purchase or exchange for fiat, so I haven't reported anything. Even if this law changes at some point, I still won't do it.
3. There's no need to launder the money. If I ever want to get fiat (don't think I will anytime soon), I'll do it on a German exchange, where we don't have to pay any taxes, at least for now.

Was your ethics so influenced by the system that you feel the need to report your every move to the authorities? That you feel like you're doing something wrong when you don't tell them what you spent your money on? Soon the society will become so scared that there will be no need for surveillance and tracking. The good citizens will share all information of their free will and even feel good afterwards.

In order to require you to pay taxes, the government must not adopt any additional laws. It is enough that you get money into your Bank account after cashing out bitcoins. This is your income. Business in bitcoins is not regulated by law so you do not need to have additional permissions. But income tax you have to pay. The fact that you don't pay for this violation of the law in any country.

Do you know what bookkeeping and receipts are? You've obviously never ruin a business before. Do you think they just guess how much money they take in at the end of the year?  You keep a record of your in-goings and outgoings and then you pay taxes on the net profit. It's not exactly difficult. If a signature campaign pays you $100 in bitcoin then you have earned $100 in bitcoin. If they pay you 0.01159 then you've earned $100 in bitcoin. I'm really not sure how a homeless man finding a bike or the parents of a child earning some extra money has to do with anything but if you're earning an income doing a job whether you're getting paid cash in hand or in bitcoin or in melons then you're liable to declare income. Sure, they might not ever find out but they might not ever find out about all those houses a criminal has been breaking into or that child locked up in someone's basement but that doesn't make it right, but if they do eventually find out then you're going to have some explaining to do and your libertarian excuses won't get you anywhere but hefty fines and possible jail time (and when it's blatant that you've purposely avoided taxes -- which you've admitted -- the latter is more likely). Also the money anyone earns in such a way will be largely useless for any substantial purchases if they ever wanted to make any. If you ever wanted to put a deposit down on a house or buy a car over a certain amount then you won't be able to without laundering the money so that's something people should take into consideration especially those doing signature campaigns as their full time job or even those earning a substantial amount because sooner or later you'll have to explain where the money came from and why you haven't been declaring it. If people are fine with that and think bitcoin is the perfect tool to get paid in whilst avoiding taxes and leaving a paper trail behind then they're free to do that, but all those people saying "my country doesn't tax bitcoin" or "I don't think you need to pay any taxes" probably aren't being as careful and people normally slip up somewhere. If you're using tor or a safe proxy and selling coins for cash on the street and keeping the money in a shoebox under your bed then yeah you might not ever be suspected of anything, but if you're selling coins using any sort of exchange or even selling for cash then putting the money straight into your bank or buying things from websites where you leave personal details then you might slip up along the way and you're not as safe as you might think. If that's a risk you're prepared to take then you do you.

It actually difficult for any government agency to discover what you earn from bitcoin business related activities such as signature campaign on less your wallet is link to your bank account.