Topic: Signature Campaigns taxes - page 2. (Read 26475 times)

I report it as an income. It was the best thing to do in my case. I preferred to think large, so even if I'm wrong, in the worst case they will have to pay me money as a refund. I won't be blamed for trying to hide an income. Which is getting more and more difficult in France anyway, especially since now they use big data to hunt down fraud and all that.
The good thing is I am paying about 6% only (instead of ~35%). and to be safe I keep track of every trade I do with it ref # etc. since the govt now ask us to report every crypto exchange account (or a fine of 750€ if I'm correct)

That's right. If to cash out by little like 50-100$ a month a bank won't has any pretensions to those money. Taxation is more about big sum of money which source you should represent to the bank and taxation system.

^

It's just like in that story about tax authorities someone once told me. Some guy had a couple of apartments rented out and wanted to know if it's considered a profession and if he has to register a business. One office told him that he doesn't have to register it unless his revenue exceeds a certain amount, another told him that if he has less then 10 apartments he doesn't have to and the third said that if he has more than 3 he has to register.
Those were all official responses from authorities located in different districts of the same country. Sometimes it's really better to stay off the radar and avoid any interaction with these people. At least until the law becomes clear.

Care to say where are you from? I would like to know how it goes for you, keep us posted. It would be useful to know what amount are you selling. I know its none of your business but its really relevant to know what to expect depending on which amounts are being dealt with. Typically the higher the amount the deeper the audit I would guess.

Another point that could be made is.. assuming you present screenshots of the payments for the forum posts, couldn't they just know your entire earnings? they would know your forum account and thus figure the entire history, so you would need to sell the entire stack? What if I just don't want to and want to keep it and only sell a small %? All these things keep me up at night, I just don't know what to do to be honest.

The conclusion thus far for me is that governments have no idea what they are doing neither do accountants, so there's really nowhere to go in terms of safety, other than not doing anything and deciding what to do in the future.

If you convert and crypto coins to fiat then you should pay taxes on it which ever country you are in. However, as the unknown coins - most of which are worthless shitcoins - are in unspendable currencies it is not worth declaring as they are untaxable.

some hefty taxes in Spain  23% if >50k euros
think France is the worst one in whole European Union in terms of taxation
as for the tax office ,they wil lbe happy if you come and declare your profit in crypto and I don't think they will nag you too much
the problem is how it is impossible to tell how all of the deductions and taxation would work if you were to run a business that uses fiat-bitcoin conversion or pays wages in crypto
this is an extremely grey area , has been and will remain that for some time

A couple of days ago, the OP got back to us on a Spanish Local thread (see re: Campañas de firmas y impuestos... alguien ha vendido cantidades importantes?). I did encourage him to come back to this thread and provide is situation feedback, and hope he will do so shortly.  

I think it would be really valuable to get real case testimonials from forum members that have undergone the taxation procedure under different legislations and prisms (i.e. crypto earned through campaigns and/or trade and/or mining). After all, at some point or other, however much “hodlers” we may be, at some point or other we may need to convert to FIAT (whilst direct crypto purchases are still scarce).

The specific case that triggered me to look into this was a cry for help from someone on my local board, that was in the (nearly) exact situation as the OP, needing to undergo the FIAT conversion in the short run due to personal circumstances.  

As per OPs contribution on my local board, and whilst waiting for a follow-up on this thread, the following is a translation of the above referenced local thread response from the OP:


“Well, the solution was rather ‘simple’ since it turns out that legally, there is no clear defined criteria. In fact, I talked to various people, expert lawyers in crypto, and the tax office, and they seemed to be uncertain themselves.  

The taxation office is currently extremely flexible. The fact that you want to declare your earnings is seen as something positive, and even if you do not have a complete track of all your operations, and cannot really prove every single TX, the taxation office will really not do much to you.

What I did was gather all the possible information I had (most of the larger exchanges let you obtain a copy of your trades), all that I could relating to the signature campaigns, as well as gains originated on the forum and other places. It’s all rather subjective, since after all, one cannot justify 100% of it all, but as I said, nothing (bad) is really going to happen.

It would be best though to check with an adviser/lawer, and let him guide you through the process of filling-in the legal forms; they helped me a lot.

In terms of (tax) percentages, they use this table:
From 0 to 6.000 euros of Capital gain = 19%.
From 6.000 to 50.000 euros = 21%.
More than 50.000 euros = 23%.  “


The above is part of the taxation system in Spain, where by capital gains are taxed according to the given ranges of value. It takes into account a bunch of conceptual gain origins, so other income is also to be considered and thrown into the same summarized bundle (i.e. income from bank accounts).

In summary, as I see it, in Spain the basis for crypto taxation are not crystal clear, and those that proceed can wiggle their way through to legality if they wish. I do figure though that each person´s situation could vary and the outcome related somewhat to whom one encounters at the other end of the desk ...

Well, that is a case to case basis if where you live. As what DdmrDdmr said, OP was on Spain that probably they are too strict in implementing taxation. I feel so much lucky we're not on the same country which I am freely here to used crypto with no taxation.

Well, let's wait when the OP visit again this thread.

Here too it is a little complicated to know how to consider it and therefore how to declare it. When you make an appointment at the tax department they don't know how to answer you and don't know who to contact for a reliable answer. We are currently in the process of declaring it in one of our sections that can be described as "extra earnings", as long as it does not exceed a certain amount annualy otherwise you are considered professional. (facepalm). I don't even dare to think for the companies that transact with cryptos from their customers.

The main problem I see is that lawyers are probably not really aware of how much a grey area bitcoin and crypto in general is. Im not sure if both layers and the state itself knows how to properly tax something as "exotic" as signature campaign earnings paid in bitcoin, of all things, which is what leads most people to simply hold it given the uncertainty that is selling it and then entering a sort of a lottery in which you may or not get screwed up by whomever official is dealing with your case.

Most likely seeing real life experience from people selling and then reporting back here how it went is as useful and realistic as it can get.

think they are talking about your personal gains not the company that sponsors the signature campaign
regardless of how successful the campaign itself is , if you as a participant are gaining income
it is subject to taxes , under some jurisdictions ( this is such a grey area , though )
even in a country like the US different states have different rules
so if I were you I'd just consult a lawyer instead of relying on some forum member's wisdom

Much better to remind him on posting to this thread once again so that users or members of this community would be aware on how the situation is being handled or resolved.

Taxation will vary on how the government do implement it on all sectors including cryptocurrency market.If they can able to track out crypto-fiat transactions then taxation
would come next.On my current country situation they are still in neutral and banks doesnt still matter nor care about transactions came from crypto.

I've just PMd the OP, in order to see if he can come forward and summarize how he resolved his situation. On the Spanish local board there are other people with exactly the same concerns now, and what would be extremely valuable is to get the OP’s real case resolution feedback of someone retrieving their BTC through a FIAT conversion + Taxation process (specifically in Spain, where the OP’s case is based).

Edit: I obvioulsy asked him in the PM if he could come back to this thread and provide additional feedback, as well as on a Spanish local board thread that was created yesterday with the same context. We'll see ..

I don't think it can be taxed because the signature campaign is not necessarily successful. If you also succeed, the coins obtained in the market are uncertain about getting a positive response.
Therefore, according to me, the signature campaign cannot be taxed yet, because if it is subject to initial tax, the campaign hunters will decrease in carrying out their duties and the results will be negative in the campaign.

Secret ?  Well what if i tell you that most crypto coins are not private or anonymous but  A couple of privacy coins are the real one 


Sig campaigns are owned by a big company and i think they also have an agency that controlls and regulate them .   in short the owner can still be taxed but not us who work on a signature campaign .

For me ,
Making our assets crypto is a secret, if you put all your assets in cryptic form, how do they know how much money you currently have?
For me the signature campaign is extraordinary income, no agency that controls all anonymous transfers, making it difficult for the agency they manage.

this topic has been made for almost 1 year, precisely when the initial collapse of the price of all digital money in all exchanges and signature income can be said to be quite large but for now it is no longer the case before so many members of Fakum are temporarily

As stated that each country applies a different system in determining taxes, including cryptocurrency. For the signature tax that has not been taxed, because the success rate or after success in ICO and coin is sold freely in the crypto market, the price does not necessarily increase. So, it is still speculative, because the benefits obtained are still unclear.
This is different from the more open stock market where the government can know and intervene in regulations, especially those related to taxes.

It isn't a tax but a fee on such conversion and its not being part nor those funds would come into tax institution.On countries which do accepts or recognize bitcoin like Philippines they might not
asking for any tax as of this moment but if the transactions becomes rampant and involving big amounts then sooner or later they will consider on having a law to imply taxation on any possible income on a certain person have.

..as many others thought,,paying taxes depends upon the country you belong,,your earning in signature campaigns is not that too high for you to pay tax on it,,but if that coins you earn,you converted it into fiat currency and save it on your bank accounts,,then propably you will going to pay your taxes if your government have found out that you are earning a lot..the volatility of Bitcoin price is unevitable,,so i am just wondering on how you are going to pay your tax in bitcoin,,because there is no fix price on what you are paying for.