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Topic: Silent payments - page 2. (Read 2469 times)

legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 4711
**In BTC since 2013**
July 23, 2024, 08:46:59 AM
#89
A way to hide who makes purchases at a specific merchant?
Remember: silent payment hides the receiver. It's the merchant who gains the privacy.

It's useful because it eliminates the burden of interactivity. Previously, the merchant needed a web server that continuously generated a whole new address for every visitor. Now, it's static, non-interactive; the burden has moved into the wallet software. The merchant still needs to be careful and not consolidate everything into one transaction, as it would harm their privacy.

Hiding the merchant ends up protecting both sides. Nobody knows where I spent that money.

My question now is: if the trader consolidates all these UTXO, will it be possible to identify who sent the money?
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 7340
Farewell, Leo
July 23, 2024, 05:30:46 AM
#88
A way to hide who makes purchases at a specific merchant?
Remember: silent payment hides the receiver. It's the merchant who gains the privacy.

It's useful because it eliminates the burden of interactivity. Previously, the merchant needed a web server that continuously generated a whole new address for every visitor. Now, it's static, non-interactive; the burden has moved into the wallet software. The merchant still needs to be careful and not consolidate everything into one transaction, as it would harm their privacy.
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 4711
**In BTC since 2013**
July 23, 2024, 02:29:48 AM
#87
@witcher_sense thanks for sharing this idea. It looks very interesting.

Do you think this solution could be especially useful in the commercial environment?
A way to hide who makes purchases at a specific merchant?
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 6524
Fully-fledged Merit Cycler|Spambuster'23|Pie Baker
July 22, 2024, 02:39:25 PM
#86
Can barely keep up with you guys, good work!  Smiley

Hehe, no worries, we are all more than glad to be able to help and make interesting & useful essays more visible for the entire forum...

And I am also coming with more good news, as a Pidgin translation was made today, by Hatchy. Here it is: Payments wey dey Silent . And now we already have 5 translations for your topic, so at least 5 more will follow... Smiley

Cheers!
legendary
Activity: 2422
Merit: 4393
🔐BitcoinMessage.Tools🔑
July 22, 2024, 03:02:29 AM
#85
Hey again, witcher_sense, I am presenting you two more translations:


Both have been made by DrBeer, which is among most active AOBT translators Smiley
Can you add these ones to OP too, please?
Can barely keep up with you guys, good work!  Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 6524
Fully-fledged Merit Cycler|Spambuster'23|Pie Baker
July 21, 2024, 01:39:38 PM
#84
Hey again, witcher_sense, I am presenting you two more translations:


Both have been made by DrBeer, which is among most active AOBT translators Smiley
Can you add these ones to OP too, please?
legendary
Activity: 2422
Merit: 4393
🔐BitcoinMessage.Tools🔑
July 21, 2024, 04:26:14 AM
#83
Hey witcher_sense,

First of all, congratulations for your work: it's contributions like this that make this forum so great. Also, thanks to paid2 for raising awareness about this topic and proposing it for translation.

Please, find the subsequent translation into Spanish here.

Thank you for your kind words, added your work to the OP. Wink
legendary
Activity: 1820
Merit: 2162
The Alliance Of Bitcointalk Translators - ENG>SPA
July 20, 2024, 06:14:01 AM
#82
Hey witcher_sense,

First of all, congratulations for your work: it's contributions like this that make this forum so great. Also, thanks to paid2 for raising awareness about this topic and proposing it for translation.

Please, find the subsequent translation into Spanish here.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 6524
Fully-fledged Merit Cycler|Spambuster'23|Pie Baker
July 17, 2024, 04:33:03 AM
#81
Fixed, you can check it now.

Yay, thank you for this and I am glad that you liked my template!

Will update the OP whenever I see a new translation added.

Okay, witcher_sense Smiley As a heads-up, you should "receive" at least 10 translations for your topic. Inside AOBT, we consider a topic as "done" once it receives 10 translations. Of course, if translators are willing, other may make even other more translations besides the 10 needed one, thus 10 is a minimum number of translations that your topic will have.

I hope this is good news for you.

Cheers Smiley
legendary
Activity: 2422
Merit: 4393
🔐BitcoinMessage.Tools🔑
July 17, 2024, 03:26:46 AM
#80
Feel free to use this template if you find it feasible Smiley (Or, you can keep it the way you like, that is okay too Smiley)
Fixed, you can check it now. Will update the OP whenever I see a new translation added.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 6524
Fully-fledged Merit Cycler|Spambuster'23|Pie Baker
July 17, 2024, 03:16:54 AM
#79
I definitely support the idea of spreading awareness about Bitcoin technical stuff (which your alliance of translators does brilliantly)

//Blushing  Roll Eyes
Thank you for this appreciation, witcher_sense! I am sure that all AOBTers will feel flattered by your words! And, at same time, your topic was considered useful and interesting, and I am glad that paid2 proposed it to be translated.

and of course, I immediately add translation to the OP.

Thank youuuu, I just saw my translation added to OP Smiley At same time, if I may make a suggestion, do you think you can add also the translator's name to the translations list? This way the translators will also have more visibility. For example, if this helps, this is how I am listing the translations of my topics:


Feel free to use this template if you find it feasible Smiley (Or, you can keep it the way you like, that is okay too Smiley)
legendary
Activity: 2422
Merit: 4393
🔐BitcoinMessage.Tools🔑
July 17, 2024, 03:02:03 AM
#78
Hey witcher_sense,

Your topic drew the attention of AOBTers and we considered to translate it in multiple local boards. You can see the progress and new translations here. We found this topic interesting and, due to its content, we added it to our translations list Smiley

So far one translation is ready -- the Romanian one. If you'd like, you can add these translations to your OP Smiley
Hey GazetaBitcoin!

Thank you for letting me know that the community found my topic worth translating in multiple languages! I definitely support the idea of spreading awareness about Bitcoin technical stuff (which your alliance of translators does brilliantly) and of course, I immediately add translation to the OP.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 6524
Fully-fledged Merit Cycler|Spambuster'23|Pie Baker
July 17, 2024, 02:47:08 AM
#77
Hey witcher_sense,

Your topic drew the attention of AOBTers and we considered to translate it in multiple local boards. You can see the progress and new translations here. We found this topic interesting and, due to its content, we added it to our translations list Smiley

So far one translation is ready -- the Romanian one. If you'd like, you can add these translations to your OP Smiley
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
May 28, 2024, 04:28:12 AM
#76
This silent system, does it also applies to the balance that might be available on an address?
Bitcoin doesn't change, the blockchain with all addresses is still public. But nobody else will know which address received a transaction that belongs to a "silent" address. There is no silent address on-chain Wink
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 1039
May 27, 2024, 11:00:57 AM
#75
Kinda Tongue One large difference is that in Bitcoin, you can choose your own denomination. I've seen altcoins (BlackBytes) that have fixed denominations (like banknotes). In Bitcoin, unlike banknotes, your change is always one input.

One could argue that Bitcoin is a better implementation of cash. I totally agree with you, and it's good that you mention it for newer members to see it.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 7340
Farewell, Leo
May 27, 2024, 07:32:36 AM
#74
That's like a "pay2spy" solution for chain analysis companies. They'll have to donate before they can link transactions.
That's another problem, and this is why silent payments and stealth addresses are not enough. You need to break traceability, and that's only possible if you hide your inputs amongst a crowd, hence mixing. If for each input, there are several other "inputs-suspects", as in Monero, there is minimum information a chain analysis company can extract.
legendary
Activity: 1414
Merit: 1108
May 27, 2024, 07:27:44 AM
#73
The basic idea

The basic idea is the following: user A publishes some identifier (usually a public key), and user B combines his private key with the published key of A and creates a unique address from which only A can spend. User C can also send money to user A by combining his private key with an address of A and deriving another unique address. User A will know that both users B and C sent him money, but B and C won't know about each other. Therefore, that allows user A to receive payments on completely delinked addresses using only one public address.
I think this is a lovely idea but, one of the many things the blockchain technology is known for is the level of transparency that is about the network.
I think to some extent, it’s the role in which mixers operated, given that you lose traces to the source of Bitcoin deposits except for one who is really keen to observe the inputs and outputs.

This silent system, does it also applies to the balance that might be available on an address?
I see this as one key aspect to privacy that we aren’t getting on the network just yet. Having just anyone to see how much is available on an address isn’t a best way to security. Tie that address to a person like we have on the forum, even though to some we are anonymous, it means trouble. The mixers case came close to some of these uneasiness.

It would be a nice incorporation into the system but, one that would be exploited for sure.
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
May 27, 2024, 04:12:44 AM
#72
If the receiver consolidates all his donations (as an example of a good use case for silent payment), then the overall privacy gains are reverted, because all the senders can now see all the donations of other people.
That's like a "pay2spy" solution for chain analysis companies. They'll have to donate before they can link transactions.

Your Bitcoin wallet -although digital- works exactly like your physical wallet not like your bank account.
Kinda Tongue One large difference is that in Bitcoin, you can choose your own denomination. I've seen altcoins (BlackBytes) that have fixed denominations (like banknotes). In Bitcoin, unlike banknotes, your change is always one input.
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 1039
May 27, 2024, 02:37:19 AM
#71
Therefore, silent payments offer privacy as long as you're careful with coin control.

Correct, I think we must have made clear, since we have been a lot vocal about it, that in general, Bitcoin works better with coin control. Not only for privacy reasons, but also for better fee management.

Warning fo people who still haven't realised how important coin control is:

Your Bitcoin wallet -although digital- works exactly like your physical wallet not like your bank account.
If your Bitcoin wallet says: 0.15BTC, it means that all the UTXOs that you have in your wallet sum up to 0.15BTC, but you can spend each UTXO separately. Just like you could have $1000 in your physical wallet, but you could spend each dollar individually. In the bank account, there is only a digital balance and each time you spend money, it reduces the available amount respectively.
Imagine paying for a TV that costs $1000, using 200 x $5 bills. Wouldn't you try to find a more convenient way to pay? Like using 10 x $100 or 5 x $200?
Each actual dollar bill that you have in your physical wallet, corresponds to a UTXO that you hold in your Bitcoin wallet.

You must use UTXOs wisely because if you don't, you will end up either ruining your privacy, or -even worse- overpaying transaction fees.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 7340
Farewell, Leo
May 26, 2024, 03:35:35 PM
#70
Consequently, it becomes exceedingly challenging for external observers to establish a connection between said address and user A, thereby ensuring the preservation of privacy.
It is important to mention this: This de-anonymization becomes "exceedingly challenging" depending on the receiver's behavior. If the receiver consolidates all his donations (as an example of a good use case for silent payment), then the overall privacy gains are reverted, because all the senders can now see all the donations of other people. Therefore, silent payments offer privacy as long as you're careful with coin control. For example, don't consolidate more donations than needed in a transaction, preferably only one each time.
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