Any libertarian or anarcho-capitalist who supports a rollback is a hypocrite.
Before talking ideology, would you like to tell us how many btc you bought during this mess and for how much. And how much in $ you will "loose" in the rollback.
Topic: Since when was mtgox the regulartory agency for btc? (Read 3956 times)
Before talking ideology, would you like to tell us how many btc you bought during this mess and for how much. And how much in $ you will "loose" in the rollback.
Mtgox is not reversing bitcoin transactions, they are reversing mtgox transactions, which they have every right to do. It would have been better if actions mtgox could take in a response to a situation like today were outlined in the mtgox TOS beforehand.
Hmmm ... if I had been playing market maker and during the selloff bought BTC at $5 in my Mt Gox account and sold BTC for $6 in my TradeHill account (hoping to pocket the $1 difference), is Mt Gox also going to roll back my Trade Hill trade? Or am I supposed to just suck in my losses because one leg of my trade happened to be fradulent?
The above situation was hypothetical, at least for my case. I am just pointing out that by rolling back trades there are unintended consequences because people might have placed other trades elsewhere on good faith that their Mt. Gox trades had cleared and will be honored.
The above situation was hypothetical, at least for my case. I am just pointing out that by rolling back trades there are unintended consequences because people might have placed other trades elsewhere on good faith that their Mt. Gox trades had cleared and will be honored.
If the moneys not there, then the money is not there, and it's pretty much game over for MTGox. No one would ever trust them again, and they might not have 10 millions dollars just lying around to fix it. If that's the case we can expect them to file for bankruptcy and you all lose.
However, I think they are only going to rollback the money that was in the major account that got hacked. If you got money out of MTGox on other deals that will probably all still be legitimate.
However, I think they are only going to rollback the money that was in the major account that got hacked. If you got money out of MTGox on other deals that will probably all still be legitimate.
Any libertarian or anarcho-capitalist who supports a rollback is a hypocrite.
I love this one. Good job.
Those Bitcoins were taken by force. No libertarian or anarcho-capitalist worth a damn would ever suggest that any trade made beyond that initial theft is binding.
Seriously... think before you post.
LOL.
To put it simply they anticipated, to some extent, that this would happen. You don't own the bitcoins until you take them out of MTgox and you don't own the cash until take it out of MTGox. They keep all the Bitcoins and all the cash because they are a 3ed party (like a bank) that is intrusted, by you, agreeing to use their service, to protect your money!
The Bitcoins and cash you play with are only representations of the real Bitcoins and Cash. Really all you have in MTGox is an account that has a bunch of numbers in it. You pay Cash to add Cash numbers in your account and you pay Bitcoins to add Bitcoin numbers to your account. MTGox is responsible for insuring the safety of your account and everyone else. Which really means they're responsible for paying you cash when they say you have cash, and paying you Bitcoins when they say you have Bitcoins. If they couldn't do something like this they wouldn't be doing the job you intrusted them to be able to do: Protect your money!
You did not get the money legitimately, not knowing this dose not make it your money, therefor they issue a rollback. If you don't like that go some place else; it really is that simple.
The Bitcoins and cash you play with are only representations of the real Bitcoins and Cash. Really all you have in MTGox is an account that has a bunch of numbers in it. You pay Cash to add Cash numbers in your account and you pay Bitcoins to add Bitcoin numbers to your account. MTGox is responsible for insuring the safety of your account and everyone else. Which really means they're responsible for paying you cash when they say you have cash, and paying you Bitcoins when they say you have Bitcoins. If they couldn't do something like this they wouldn't be doing the job you intrusted them to be able to do: Protect your money!
You did not get the money legitimately, not knowing this dose not make it your money, therefor they issue a rollback. If you don't like that go some place else; it really is that simple.
You are thinking about it in the wrong way.
MtGox knowingly allowed stolen bitcoins to be moved from person A to person C.
They are responsible now to reimburse person A out of their own pocket, otherwise they are liable as helping the B person (the thief).
MtGox knowingly allowed stolen bitcoins to be moved from person A to person C.
They are responsible now to reimburse person A out of their own pocket, otherwise they are liable as helping the B person (the thief).
FYP.
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Any libertarian or anarcho-capitalist who supports a rollback is a hypocrite.
I think you are right. And that's what makes such "philosophies" idiotic and untenable.
Dude, the price were down to cents. Are you telling me people didn't know? That would be like selling your 40" LED-TV for 10$. People knew and tried to make a quick buck. Now they are pissed coz MT Gox doesn't let them.
The price was cents just a few months ago. It is totally unreasonable to expect someone who bought these cheap coins to have known that they were stolen. The Bitcoin economy is extremely unstable. Any number of things could have happened.
Any libertarian or anarcho-capitalist who supports a rollback is a hypocrite.
You are thinking about it in the wrong way.
MtGox knowingly allowed stolen bitcoins to be moved from person A to person C.
They are responsible now to return from person C to person A, otherwise they are liable as helping the B person (the thief).
Dude, the price were down to cents. Are you telling me people didn't know? That would be like selling your 40" LED-TV for 10$. People knew and tried to make a quick buck. Now they are pissed coz MT Gox doesn't let them.
The price was cents just a few months ago. It is totally unreasonable to expect someone who bought these cheap coins to have known that they were stolen. The Bitcoin economy is extremely unstable. Any number of things could have happened.
Any libertarian or anarcho-capitalist who supports a rollback is a hypocrite.
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So for some reason a decentralised cryptocurrency has ended up centralised and running to the whims of a obviously insecure company? This seems a good idea.
So it took this crash for you to figure this out? What the hell were you doing all this time?
By the way, the result you pose above is the basis for one of the classic arguments for regulation - that self-regulation cannot be sustained and is ultimately more damaging. In the excitement to be Web 3.0, realize that traditional philosophy/theory is not wholly without merit.
Knowingly purchasing stolen goods is a crime. Simply purchasing stolen goods (without knowing that they were stolen) is not a crime. If I steal your television and sell it, it's not reasonable to expect the person who buys it from me to know that it was stolen. If you go after the buyer, you are committing an act of aggression.
Dude, the price were down to cents. Are you telling me people didn't know? That would be like selling your 40" LED-TV for 10$. People knew and tried to make a quick buck. Now they are pissed coz MT Gox doesn't let them.
They cannot reverse BTC transactions anyway. All they can reverse is their local books. That should tell people a lesson what it means to trust book keepers instead of the P2P net.
+1
This is why speculation should be organized in a p2p system to the extent possible.
+1
This is why speculation should be organized in a p2p system to the extent possible.
Knowingly purchasing stolen goods is a crime. Simply purchasing stolen goods (without knowing that they were stolen) is not a crime. If I steal your television and sell it, it's not reasonable to expect the person who buys it from me to know that it was stolen. If you go after the buyer, you are committing an act of aggression.
They cannot reverse BTC transactions anyway. All they can reverse is their local books. That should tell people a lesson what it means to trust book keepers instead of the P2P net. 
By rolling the price back to it's prior value and not letting the free market decide upon the new value after this attack, Mtgox is essentially saying that they themselves are the de facto controller of the value of bitcoin. I don't use bitcoin because I wanted some regulatory agency to say how much my money was worth, I wanted the market itself to decide that.
mtgox should be shut down anyway for this absolute gross failure to uphold private data.
Oh also which mod deleted my thread, if you have any love for the constitution you'll let people speak their mind instead of enforcing your views upon them. Thanks!
mtgox should be shut down anyway for this absolute gross failure to uphold private data.
Oh also which mod deleted my thread, if you have any love for the constitution you'll let people speak their mind instead of enforcing your views upon them. Thanks!
Are you stupid? Why are there so many morons on this forum? It still is a free market, they are rolling back compromised accounts and the system.
Gox doesn't decide the market at all, once it opens back up people put in the price they want to sell the coins for and buy for as usual.
Hmm then why would they announce they're "rolling back all the prices and accounts to before 3pm 20th june?" if something happens to a company that makes it fail, the owner of the stock market doesn't get to go "sorry chaps I'm not letting you sell at the price you want. You gotta sell at the price I WANT", does he?
THEY CANT MAKE YOU SELL AND BUY AT THAT PRICE THAT WAS USED TO TELL YOU WHERE THEY ARE RESTORING THE SERVER BACKUP AT.
God damn your retarded.
So for some reason a decentralised cryptocurrency has ended up centralised and running to the whims of a obviously insecure company? This seems a good idea.
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It's extremely difficult to do that when mtgox has a monopoly on the exchanges now really isn't it.
So you've answered your own damn question. If MtGox is the only real exchange, then it is not MtGox *saying* that their are the de facto controller, they, in fact, *are* the de facto controller. Some of you are surprisingly ignorant to be playing this game.
thats just poor wording. put up in a rush. what they mean is they will put the database back to what it was before this happened when the price was at 17.50. then people can do whatever they want. sell em at $2 each etc.
They are just saying that they are going to sell/buy at that price when Mt. Gox comes back up. No one is forcing you to trade there, you can still trade on a different site...
It's extremely difficult to do that when mtgox has a monopoly on the exchanges now really isn't it.
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