[SKY] Skycoin Launch Announcement - page 181.

gu7008

member

Activity: 69

Merit: 10

We are all entering a new era.

Quote from: Anotheranonlol on February 17, 2014, 07:19:36 AM

I was enthused about this project when first reading it, in the same way I was enthused about Ripple + opencoin. That is Fuggers original vision of ripple and Opencoin. not the butchered, centralised and confusingly named Ripple by Opencoin INC imposters. but it seems to be butchered too

not particularly concerned about initial IPO for 1% stake, rather the distribution mechanism for the remainder. This is incredibly vague, vague is an understatement actually.

How exactly is this supposed to work, can developers shine a light here? Central entity controls 99% of the total monetary supply and will just drop 0.1% at say 00:00 UTC on a centralised exchange according to the latest market price? So let's just go with the assumption that this anonymous cartel behind skycoin are trusted to act in best interests of the project and will fairly distribute rest as promised.

even there why wouldn't any group snap down the bids and pull their asks right before release to guarantee them a more sexy price? who controls the market price, you can answer 'free market' but manipulation will be rampant

I don't understand why such a promising project has gone with this approach

It's indeed a dilema every non-PoW coin faces, the NXT-style of distribution is widely considered as horrible, and became a big obstacle of the coin's acception.
This issue needs to be carefully dealed with a brillant plan. I hope dev would clarify about the mechanism of distribution of the rest 99% coins.

DanielVG

sr. member

Activity: 266

Merit: 250

I want free lunch, i'm gonna go with this guy.

count me in Grin

Anotheranonlol

hero member

Activity: 588

Merit: 504

I was enthused about this project when first reading it, in the same way I was enthused about Ripple + opencoin. That is Fuggers original vision of ripple and Opencoin. not the butchered, centralised and confusingly named Ripple by Opencoin INC imposters. but it seems to be butchered too

not particularly concerned about initial IPO for 1% stake, rather the distribution mechanism for the remainder. This is incredibly vague, vague is an understatement actually.

How exactly is this supposed to work, can developers shine a light here? Central entity controls 99% of the total monetary supply and will just drop 0.1% at say 00:00 UTC on a centralised exchange according to the latest market price? So let's just go with the assumption that this anonymous cartel behind skycoin are trusted to act in best interests of the project and will fairly distribute rest as promised.

even there why wouldn't any group snap down the bids and pull their asks right before release to guarantee them a more sexy price? who controls the market price, you can answer 'free market' but manipulation will be rampant

I don't understand why such a promising project has gone with this approach

Cryptox

newbie

Activity: 13

Merit: 0

Quote from: Brilliantrocket on February 13, 2014, 10:20:35 AM

Either the developer is a lunatic, or this is a giant money grab. To ask 50 BTC for a 1% stake in a project like this is absurd. This project may be worth 50BTC as a WHOLE, not for 1%. What does the dev have to show other than a few lines of code? Who are you, dev? Why should the community trust a sock puppet account, with no reputation? Do you have a WOT account? Who else is on your team? Do you have a timeline, a business plan, in other words you need to provide a little more before anyone ( except true fools) will trust you with their BTC.

Consider two other currencies that used the IPO model, NXT and Mastercoin. NXT took 21 BTC for its IPO, providing the full 100% of NXT to investors. The return on this investment was around 3000x. Next, let's look at Mastercoin. Mastercoin raised 4700 BTC, but they had a team of developers and a solid plan. Investing in Mastercoin would have netted between 100-200x, depending on what time you sold. For this project, if we take the 50BTC = 1% stake, you'd need for this coin to have a ~100,000,000 market cap, just to see a 25x return. Most coins never break 10,000,000 let alone a hundred million. So not only is this an extremely high risk investment, it's also low reward.

In his communications, the dev says things like "initial investors will become outrageously rich". Not only does that sound bad coming from the developer of a purportedly legitimate coin, but no one will become rich with the current model except for the dev. Overall ,I say that this project has a very high chance of being an outright scam. If it isn't a scam, and we're just dealing with a megalomaniac dev, your potential earnings are so low as to be laughable for this level of risk. Stay away.

Pro analysis. +1

paulmaritz

sr. member

Activity: 672

Merit: 274

Quote from: mrkaplunov on February 17, 2014, 12:22:28 AM

Quote from: skycoin on February 14, 2014, 02:09:21 PM

1> Skycoin is not a financial instrument or a get rich quick coin
2> Skycoin is not about the money. Dont buy Skycoin for financial reasons.
3> Skycoin does not care if you only make 30x returns instead of 6000x returns (cry me a river. seriously)
4> If you want 6000x returns, buy Dogecoin. Great coin. Many riches.
5> Buy Skycoin because you support the objectives of the project and want to be part of the community
6> All coins with a growing community will increase in value, but financial speculation does not create the community.

Now I'm sure that you are delusional. No one gives two shits about Skycoin. No one gives a flying fuck about your objectives and there won't be a community until you create one. How do you get people to care? Give them a chance to make money. If you don't allow people to get a stake, your coin will be good to no one. You won't get money for hopes and dreams.

No one invests for objectives or community. If you want objectives and community, go join a fucking commune. People invest to get a return. If you can't offer that, you and your coin are useless. In fact, you are less than useless, you are a competitor stealing market share from potentially profitable coins.

Thank you, but I will speak for myself and I am sure others prefer to do the same. Which part of 30x returns did you miss? If you want 6000x returns, go buy Dogecoin as already advised. In fact, you've made it abundantly clear that you give "two shits about Skycoin", so I am not going to waste time my time with you. Take your foul mouth elsewhere. We surely don't need the likes of you here.

paulmaritz

sr. member

Activity: 672

Merit: 274

Quote from: TheMightyX on February 16, 2014, 11:31:34 PM

Quote from: paulmaritz on February 13, 2014, 06:02:00 PM

Quote from: TheMightyX on February 13, 2014, 05:37:51 PM

Quote from: paulmaritz on February 13, 2014, 04:53:27 PM

I feel they definitely have something of value to offer and the 50BTC is really not something to write home about, especially if it gets spread thinly among many investors/advocates/supporters. I mean, if someone don't like it, they don't have to participate. In fact, I am glad the 50 BTC will only buy a 1% stake, because this will leave enough room for others to also participate further down the line. Can you imagine offering a 100% sake for 50BTC... how concentrated will that spread be and will it give others any incentive further down the line to participate? I think not.

I think the problem is the whole IPO model is what we are trying to get away from.
One person can NOT be trusted with $3,500,000 dollars.
But this is what you are thinking it is alright to do?
That is the initial valuation, 3.5 mill.

If the value goes up, you think its all right to trust some anonymous person with $10,000,000? how about $30,000,000?
if you answered yes to any of those questions you are delusional or willingly deceptive.

This man will control every single coin every generated. You will have to buy them from him.

Quote from: sighle on December 25, 2013, 12:11:29 AM

For those of you wondering HOW Skycoin is generated, it's not. The entire market cap will already exist at coin launch and the only way to get it is to buy it from the developers at the price that THEY set.

Tell me this is a great idea?
Please, someone try to explain to me why that's a safe idea?

Cryptocurrencies were created to avoid the monopolistic authoritarian process of federal banks and their centralized control on the populace. This is returning us to that state with a few new features.

What do we want to control, $3.5m worth of Skycoin or $3.5m in fiat? If control over fiat is the issue, then we're clearly don't have the right mind set to make cryptocurrencies work.

Anyhow, I didn't say it should be in control of one person... thinly spread means many folks benefit (at least in my book). Despite this, assuming in worst case scenario there is only one person and he makes 1% of Skycoin available at 50BTC, it is not that he will be sitting with $3.5m and we with nothing. For that to be true, you have to assume that what he will be selling is worthless. Anyhow, how do you get to one person and in almost the same sentence you give developers a mention? How many people are involved, one or more than one? Perhaps you could explain to me, especially given the fact that I am probably "delusional or willingly deceptive."

"The entire market cap will already exist at coin launch and the only way to get it is to buy it from the developers at the price that THEY set." - How do you think companies list on stock exchanges or folks buy or invest in companies? You have the God given right to buy at the price set or not. There is nothing strange or unjust about it.

Anyhow, what exactly do you propose in terms of fair distribution?

So... I'm still not clear if you are deceiving people or are delusional.
Your comments... don't relate to what I'm saying...

Quote

I didn't say it should be in control of one person... thinly spread means many folks benefit

Wtf are you talking about? One person, the developer, is going to be releasing the coins indefinitely. That is as "In control of one person" as you can get. The coins are not being distributed 100% at launch. They are going to be distributed solely by the developer, over time, forever.
You are willing to trust this one person with 99% of all the coins and just hope that he doesnt decide to run off with it?

Quote

How do you think companies list on stock exchanges or folks buy or invest in companies? You have the God given right to buy at the price set or not. There is nothing strange or unjust about it.

You are right, that wouldn't be strange or unjust... if we were buying these coins from a fucking stock exchange.
Again... thats not related, you are comparing this man holding and distributing all the coins to a company distributing stock on a regulated stock exchange? My god my brain... A stock exchange... ... recourse... ugh... liability.... identification... having a siezure!
How can I put this simply? If you buy stock from a stock exchange, you can be 100% sure that person isn't going to steal the other 99% of the stock. Even if they were to do something illegal you could sue or they would be arrested. With Mr Skycoin here you have 0 recourse, 0 chance and 0 hope of ever seeing your money again.

I find the fact that you are so blindly promoting this coin suspicious.
This coin has promise, but the developer is smothering it.
If this is legit skycoin, you are letting your greed taint something that could potentially do a lot of good.
Stop making this coin about your personal gain.

You've missed all the points I wanted to make again, clearly failed to see how it fit in with the comments you left, set up straw man arguments which you use against me and make accusations against my person which have no basis in reality whatsoever. I think we're done here.

mrkaplunov

newbie

Activity: 15

Merit: 0

Quote from: skycoin on February 14, 2014, 02:09:21 PM

1> Skycoin is not a financial instrument or a get rich quick coin
2> Skycoin is not about the money. Dont buy Skycoin for financial reasons.
3> Skycoin does not care if you only make 30x returns instead of 6000x returns (cry me a river. seriously)
4> If you want 6000x returns, buy Dogecoin. Great coin. Many riches.
5> Buy Skycoin because you support the objectives of the project and want to be part of the community
6> All coins with a growing community will increase in value, but financial speculation does not create the community.

Now I'm sure that you are delusional. No one gives two shits about Skycoin. No one gives a flying fuck about your objectives and there won't be a community until you create one. How do you get people to care? Give them a chance to make money. If you don't allow people to get a stake, your coin will be good to no one. You won't get money for hopes and dreams.

No one invests for objectives or community. If you want objectives and community, go join a fucking commune. People invest to get a return. If you can't offer that, you and your coin are useless. In fact, you are less than useless, you are a competitor stealing market share from potentially profitable coins.

TheMightyX

sr. member

Activity: 350

Merit: 250

Vires in Numeris

Quote from: paulmaritz on February 13, 2014, 06:02:00 PM

Quote from: TheMightyX on February 13, 2014, 05:37:51 PM

Quote from: paulmaritz on February 13, 2014, 04:53:27 PM

I feel they definitely have something of value to offer and the 50BTC is really not something to write home about, especially if it gets spread thinly among many investors/advocates/supporters. I mean, if someone don't like it, they don't have to participate. In fact, I am glad the 50 BTC will only buy a 1% stake, because this will leave enough room for others to also participate further down the line. Can you imagine offering a 100% sake for 50BTC... how concentrated will that spread be and will it give others any incentive further down the line to participate? I think not.

I think the problem is the whole IPO model is what we are trying to get away from.
One person can NOT be trusted with $3,500,000 dollars.
But this is what you are thinking it is alright to do?
That is the initial valuation, 3.5 mill.

If the value goes up, you think its all right to trust some anonymous person with $10,000,000? how about $30,000,000?
if you answered yes to any of those questions you are delusional or willingly deceptive.

This man will control every single coin every generated. You will have to buy them from him.

Quote from: sighle on December 25, 2013, 12:11:29 AM

For those of you wondering HOW Skycoin is generated, it's not. The entire market cap will already exist at coin launch and the only way to get it is to buy it from the developers at the price that THEY set.

Tell me this is a great idea?
Please, someone try to explain to me why that's a safe idea?

Cryptocurrencies were created to avoid the monopolistic authoritarian process of federal banks and their centralized control on the populace. This is returning us to that state with a few new features.

What do we want to control, $3.5m worth of Skycoin or $3.5m in fiat? If control over fiat is the issue, then we're clearly don't have the right mind set to make cryptocurrencies work.

Anyhow, I didn't say it should be in control of one person... thinly spread means many folks benefit (at least in my book). Despite this, assuming in worst case scenario there is only one person and he makes 1% of Skycoin available at 50BTC, it is not that he will be sitting with $3.5m and we with nothing. For that to be true, you have to assume that what he will be selling is worthless. Anyhow, how do you get to one person and in almost the same sentence you give developers a mention? How many people are involved, one or more than one? Perhaps you could explain to me, especially given the fact that I am probably "delusional or willingly deceptive."

"The entire market cap will already exist at coin launch and the only way to get it is to buy it from the developers at the price that THEY set." - How do you think companies list on stock exchanges or folks buy or invest in companies? You have the God given right to buy at the price set or not. There is nothing strange or unjust about it.

Anyhow, what exactly do you propose in terms of fair distribution?

So... I'm still not clear if you are deceiving people or are delusional.
Your comments... don't relate to what I'm saying...

Quote

I didn't say it should be in control of one person... thinly spread means many folks benefit

Wtf are you talking about? One person, the developer, is going to be releasing the coins indefinitely. That is as "In control of one person" as you can get. The coins are not being distributed 100% at launch. They are going to be distributed solely by the developer, over time, forever.
You are willing to trust this one person with 99% of all the coins and just hope that he doesnt decide to run off with it?

Quote

How do you think companies list on stock exchanges or folks buy or invest in companies? You have the God given right to buy at the price set or not. There is nothing strange or unjust about it.

You are right, that wouldn't be strange or unjust... if we were buying these coins from a fucking stock exchange.
Again... thats not related, you are comparing this man holding and distributing all the coins to a company distributing stock on a regulated stock exchange? My god my brain... A stock exchange... ... recourse... ugh... liability.... identification... having a siezure!
How can I put this simply? If you buy stock from a stock exchange, you can be 100% sure that person isn't going to steal the other 99% of the stock. Even if they were to do something illegal you could sue or they would be arrested. With Mr Skycoin here you have 0 recourse, 0 chance and 0 hope of ever seeing your money again.

I find the fact that you are so blindly promoting this coin suspicious.
This coin has promise, but the developer is smothering it.
If this is legit skycoin, you are letting your greed taint something that could potentially do a lot of good.
Stop making this coin about your personal gain.

Cryptock

hero member

Activity: 1792

Merit: 507

Is there any new changes to the IPO structure

michald

newbie

Activity: 12

Merit: 0

count me in

good luck

Uniqueorn

full member

Activity: 182

Merit: 100

NXT.org

Check your PM

mrkaplunov

newbie

Activity: 15

Merit: 0

This is joke. IPO go to buy lambo for dev. Smart dev, is good scam. Make big money. Pathetic fool investors lose many money.

skycoin

hero member

Activity: 498

Merit: 500

Quote from: Lawyer on February 14, 2014, 02:53:17 PM

Regarding the whole DarkNet movement, wouldn't it be more beneficial to change the name so that it doesn't have such negative connotations? This social movement won't reach momentum if it has undertones of criminal activity.

Something like OpenNet, FreeNet, Web 3.0 would be suffice. You need something that won't put people off initially, so that we can understand the core objectives and goals of the mission, especially with the tentative merging of Time Warner and Comcast.

>Time Warner and Comcast.

Fuck Time Warner. Fuck Comcast. Fuck Verizon. They are throttling Amazon S3 and Netflix now. A political response has been ineffective and only won short term concessions. "zeroconf" hardware deployment, needs to be ready by July.

Even worse, many people believe the NSA blocked standardization of multihome routing in IPv6, to make it easier to spy on everyone. Everyone has slower internet in IPv6 so the NSA can read everyone's email more easily. Opportunistic encryption was also sidelined in IPv6 for the same reason.

>wouldn't it be more beneficial to change the name so that it doesn't have such negative connotations?

We dont have any influence on branding for the social movement. The media and reddit likes "darknet" more than "meshnet". Darknet is "dark and sexy" and mysterious and slightly illicit. Meshnet is "confined" or "trapped".

Lawyer

newbie

Activity: 37

Merit: 0

Regarding the whole DarkNet movement, wouldn't it be more beneficial to change the name so that it doesn't have such negative connotations? This social movement won't reach momentum if it has undertones of criminal activity.

Something like OpenNet, FreeNet, Web 3.0 would be suffice. You need something that won't put people off initially, so that we can understand the core objectives and goals of the mission, especially with the tentative merging of Time Warner and Comcast.

paulmaritz

sr. member

Activity: 672

Merit: 274

skycoin

hero member

Activity: 498

Merit: 500

1> Skycoin is not a financial instrument or a get rich quick coin
2> Skycoin is not about the money. Dont buy Skycoin for financial reasons.
3> Support Skycoin because you support the objectives of the project and want to be part of the community
4> All coins with a growing community will increase in value, but financial speculation does not create the community.

Satoshi never intended for Bitcoin to be about the price.

Also,
1. Skycoin development is being funded by the founders, not from the IPO
2. The IPO money is being used to buy Skycoin stickers. Many stickers. Great riches.
3. The IPO is a small initial distribution to the community and supporters
4. Speculators dont add anything to the project. Skycoin needs testers, developers, translators and other contributions.

For marketing, you dont want to know. We received message from fashion magazine writing story about Skycoin, Dogecoin and the Darknet. I have a feeling that the whole altcoin space is going to go insane soon.

----

This is what is going on behind the scenes in the altcoin community

1. Developers are being offered 15k/month, 300 bitcoin and single digit percentage of new coins to work on altcoin projects
2. Massive number of hardware wallet companies. Every developer in space is receiving a new job offer every week
3. Many other coins are "pumping" coin with marketing campaigns, selling at peak and then causing panics and buying the coins back after the crash.
4. Powerful people in media are pushing particular coins
5. Celebrity endorsements of new coins
6. PeerCoin was bought up by trust fund babies NYC. They changed name from PPcoin to PeerCoin so it could be mainstreamed. Were paying models to walk around downtown Manhattan wearing PeerCoin tshirts. Massive professional marketing campaigns behind many of the newer coins.
7. If you start seeing Dogecoin on billboards, would not surprise me.
8. Viral video marketing campaigns for new coins ( ex. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgYafqOLHg0 )

Skycoin marketing is highly targeted at influence groups and communities who need to know about Skycoin. The objective of Skycoin marketing is to build out the community and build awareness. Skycoin is not doing broad marketing aimed at public to "pump" prices to unsustainable levels. Skycoin will not be paying Lady Gaga to make a Skycoin music video.

Marketing tactics designed to cause bubbles and bursts are great for speculators, day trading and people organizing the pumps, but conflict with Skycoin's objective of low volatility and stable price levels. Anyone expecting the Skycoin Lady Gaga music video pump should put their money in other coins.

garcias

member

Activity: 84

Merit: 10

paulmaritz

sr. member

Activity: 672

Merit: 274

Quote from: Ubitq on February 14, 2014, 04:48:23 AM

Where is the IPO ?

As far as I know it is still pretty much in the making. All the details have not been officially revealed yet.

Ubitq

newbie

Activity: 13

Merit: 0

Where is the IPO ?

paulmaritz

sr. member

Activity: 672

Merit: 274

Quote from: blueangel01 on February 14, 2014, 12:32:44 AM

If this is over value then there is no opportunity here. Very high risk at premium price. It does not make sense to invest here. Removing this in my watch list.

"Software Release Schedule:

The first Skycoin client will be released in January. White papers will be released as they are finished."

I have not seen the client yet.

Thanks for your opinion and thanks for moving on.

Yeah, it is not good to miss deadlines, but I am sure you've never missed one. Roll Eyes

Topic: [SKY] Skycoin Launch Announcement - page 181. (Read 381579 times)