Small UTXOs | Bitcointalksearch.org

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: HCP on February 25, 2021, 06:23:56 PM

The 2 places I know of that give an indication of what the "mempool min fee" likely to being currently used by default nodes

You can also see this on Jochen's site by using the "BTC (default mempool)" option at the top, rather than the "BTC" option. It is quite nice to be able to compare the two and see just how much is being purged from default nodes. At the moment it is about 125 vMB of transactions. Shocked

HCP

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Also ensure the transaction fee rate at least 1 sat/vbyte, because AFAIK Bitcoin Core also shows same error if transaction fee rate at least 1 sat/vbyte.

It isn't a "min relay" error... it is "mempool min fee"... because of the huge size of the mempool... transactions that are extremely far away from the tip get purged (I believe the idea is that you no longer have to wait 14 days for the transaction to get "dropped" if there is literally 0% chance of your transaction getting confirmed within that timeframe and also to keep the mempool memory usage size under control).

The 2 places I know of that give an indication of what the "mempool min fee" likely to being currently used by default nodes are:
mempool.space:

Check the "purging" value... currently any transaction with less than a fee rate of 6.5 sats/vbyte will likely be removed from a (default configured) node to try and keep the mempool memory usage down at the 300MB range.

or, statoshi.info:

The bottom graph on the "Memory Pool" page shows the "mempool min fee" rate...

LoyceV

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Quote from: zoltanb on February 19, 2021, 05:42:07 AM

Is there any way to bypass this error message?
error code: -26
error message:
mempool min fee not met, 15000 < 17463

I haven't experienced it yet, but I read (some) mempools increased the minimum fee.
If you copy the raw signed transaction, you can try broadcasting it through other sites:
https://blockchair.com/broadcast
https://coinb.in/#broadcast
https://www.blockchain.com/btc/pushtx

zoltanb

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Is there any way to bypass this error message?
error code: -26
error message:
mempool min fee not met, 15000 < 17463

HCP

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The days of 1 sat/byte transactions are gone for a while, I suspect...

and at one point it was purging transactions below 5 sats/vbyte: https://statoshi.info/d/000000020/memory-pool?orgId=1

Given the insane bull run we're on and breaking $50k... nodes are now purging transactions below 4 sats/vbyte due to "mempool min fee"... I can't even attempt to send a 3.6 sat/vbyte transaction:

Quote

mempool min fee not met, 707 < 806 (code -26)

zoltanb

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Quote from: HCP on February 16, 2021, 11:41:58 PM

Quote from: pooya87 on February 16, 2021, 06:01:24 AM

Quote from: zoltanb on February 16, 2021, 04:59:10 AM

Used this one, I am just not sure about the type of transaction.
What if it is combined? 30 P2SH and 10 bech32 inputs, how do I enter it?

If it is from a wallet that you have created then the input types should be the same since wallets don't usually generate more then one type of address.

OP is using Bitcoin Core... which will let you generate all three... Legacy, Nested and Native... (and create MultiSig's if you want Tongue

)

Quote from: zoltanb on February 16, 2021, 04:56:40 AM

I am using bitcoin core, bitcoin-cli but I am constructing the raw transaction manually.

So, it's entirely possible they have 30 P2SH and 10 bech32 inputs... Generally, it's caused by using the "default" options (which tries to generate bech32 addresses), but then unchecking the "generate native segwit (bech 32) address" box in the "receive" tab... this will give you a P2SH-P2WPKH (nested) receive address... but when you spend these coins, Bitcoin Core will default to bech32 change addresses if you haven't explicitly set it using the commandline arguments.

Quote from: Bitcoin Core commandline options

-addresstype
What type of addresses to use ("legacy", "p2sh-segwit", or "bech32", default: "bech32")

-changetype
What type of change to use ("legacy", "p2sh-segwit", or "bech32"). Default is same as -addresstype, except when -addresstype=p2sh-segwit a native segwit output is used when sending to a native segwit address)

Exactly. You summarized it very well.

pooya87

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Quote from: HCP on February 16, 2021, 11:41:58 PM

OP is using Bitcoin Core... which will let you generate all three... Legacy, Nested and Native... (and create MultiSig's if you want Tongue

)

That's true but I assumed OP is only using core for signing not creating the wallet itself. I may have been wrong.
Usually all wallets including core let you choose your address type whether in the same wallet file or force creation of a new one but the user has to always explicitly request a new address type.

ranochigo

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Quote from: zoltanb on February 16, 2021, 04:56:40 AM

I am using bitcoin core, bitcoin-cli but I am constructing the raw transaction manually.

If you want to do that, would it be better for you to create a raw transaction without any inputs and use fundrawtransaction to add the inputs instead? If you were to specify the fee rate as well as the deduction of the fees from the outputs, then it would be far easier than to calculate the fees manually. See this: https://bitcoincore.org/en/doc/0.18.0/rpc/rawtransactions/fundrawtransaction/.

HCP

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Quote from: pooya87 on February 16, 2021, 06:01:24 AM

Quote from: zoltanb on February 16, 2021, 04:59:10 AM

Used this one, I am just not sure about the type of transaction.
What if it is combined? 30 P2SH and 10 bech32 inputs, how do I enter it?

If it is from a wallet that you have created then the input types should be the same since wallets don't usually generate more then one type of address.

OP is using Bitcoin Core... which will let you generate all three... Legacy, Nested and Native... (and create MultiSig's if you want Tongue

)

Quote from: zoltanb on February 16, 2021, 04:56:40 AM

I am using bitcoin core, bitcoin-cli but I am constructing the raw transaction manually.

So, it's entirely possible they have 30 P2SH and 10 bech32 inputs... Generally, it's caused by using the "default" options (which tries to generate bech32 addresses), but then unchecking the "generate native segwit (bech 32) address" box in the "receive" tab... this will give you a P2SH-P2WPKH (nested) receive address... but when you spend these coins, Bitcoin Core will default to bech32 change addresses if you haven't explicitly set it using the commandline arguments.

Quote from: Bitcoin Core commandline options

-addresstype
What type of addresses to use ("legacy", "p2sh-segwit", or "bech32", default: "bech32")

-changetype
What type of change to use ("legacy", "p2sh-segwit", or "bech32"). Default is same as -addresstype, except when -addresstype=p2sh-segwit a native segwit output is used when sending to a native segwit address)

pooya87

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Quote from: zoltanb on February 16, 2021, 04:59:10 AM

Used this one, I am just not sure about the type of transaction.
What if it is combined? 30 P2SH and 10 bech32 inputs, how do I enter it?

If it is from a wallet that you have created then the input types should be the same since wallets don't usually generate more then one type of address. For example they are all P2WPKH addresses.
In any case there are other tools that you can use such as https://coinb.in/#fees but keep in mind that these are estimations, and can be wrong specially in case of multisig inputs since it depends on the number of pubkeys

zoltanb

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Quote from: ranochigo on February 16, 2021, 04:31:35 AM

Here: https://jlopp.github.io/bitcoin-transaction-size-calculator/

What wallet are you using? Most wallets should let you define your fee rates and give you the transaction size at the point of signing as well.

Used this one, I am just not sure about the type of transaction.
What if it is combined? 30 P2SH and 10 bech32 inputs, how do I enter it?

zoltanb

member

Activity: 162

Merit: 24

I am using bitcoin core, bitcoin-cli but I am constructing the raw transaction manually.

LoyceV

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Quote from: zoltanb on February 16, 2021, 04:28:19 AM

How do I calculate the exact transaction size to set my fee accordingly?

It shows on the Send tab under Coin Control Features.

ranochigo

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Quote from: zoltanb on February 16, 2021, 04:28:19 AM

Thanks for all the responses.
OK, all inputs are 3xxx (p2sh-segwit) and bc1xxx (bech32) and the output is a bech32 address.
How do I calculate the exact transaction size to set my fee accordingly?

Here: https://jlopp.github.io/bitcoin-transaction-size-calculator/

What wallet are you using? Most wallets should let you define your fee rates and give you the transaction size at the point of signing as well.

zoltanb

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Activity: 162

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Thanks for all the responses.
OK, all inputs are 3xxx (p2sh-segwit) and bc1xxx (bech32) and the output is a bech32 address.
How do I calculate the exact transaction size to set my fee accordingly?

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: bitmover on February 16, 2021, 12:54:12 AM

I made a 1 sat byte transaction 16 January from my signature campaign address.

That transaction is 1.27 sat/WU, which works out to over 5 sat/vbyte.

Quote from: bitmover on February 16, 2021, 12:54:12 AM

In mempool.space the mempool is about 150mb, but I got only 70mb in mine. But it still shows up that it is possible to get a confirmation with 7 sat/byte

Well yes, because the tip of the mempool is currently around 10 sat/vbyte, but there are still 130 MB of transactions below that.

Quote from: bitmover on February 16, 2021, 12:54:12 AM

We got 2336 1-2 sat/byte transactions confirmed in the last 12 days:

And there are currently over 20,000 transactions paying 1-2 sats/vbyte in the mempool, and several thousands more which will have been dropped over the last 12 days. Sure, a handful of low fee transactions will confirm because miners choose to include them (perhaps they have paid privately, or perhaps they have been boosted via CPFP, or perhaps they are the miners' own transactions, or that of their friends/associates, and so on), but most will sit unconfirmed until they are dropped from the mempool.

I prefer just to wait until the mempool is empty to do my consolidating.

bitmover

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on February 15, 2021, 11:57:09 PM

HCP is right. The mempool hasn't been below 50 MB since January 7th, and as long as we continue this ridiculous bull run, it won't be for a long time yet I would think. There are probably also a few dozen more MB of low fee transactions which have been dropped in that time.

I made a ~~1 sat byte~~ (1 sat/wu, 5 sat/vbyte)transaction 16 January from my signature campaign address.

https://www.blockchain.com/btc/tx/3f1c9ecba89229e7568f0a9ac01b632279ca880cec9c84a4b77b0ebaa293cf9d

we are having 1 sat/byte transaction confirmed every week...

A 50mb mempool doesn't mean you won't get a confirmation with a low fee

Now the mempool has about 70mb, but with 7 sat/byte you can get a confirmation.

In mempool.space the mempool is about 150mb, but I got only 70mb in mine. But it still shows up that it is possible to get a confirmation with 7 sat/byte

https://mempool.space/graphs#2h

I just went through the last block, i found some low fee confirmed transactions. All of them 7 sat/byte in block 670809 (just now):
https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/transaction/171e66023baa035bfa43ceee08e11a320b32a7ca6629a02b43d5a11b5bc40386
https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/transaction/3af106f1707d8d126e71ca7e4889858722b93229b5ceb8d7397881b217959165
https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/transaction/a8e8ba5b6c237c5c1bce234deddda1a20b7ffd778e158aaae73f278e21fd8089
https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/transaction/c2c1ae512405e24019d43992869f83b5669e14ec3a13d4054843656d84d874f0
https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/transaction/42597d91e8ee6b7e714a5d05395a85096d9dcb3e9cda7e6ad0cee2614fc8cd1e

So, to sum up: A big mempool doesn't mean a high fee if the size is getting smaller after each block.

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on February 15, 2021, 11:57:09 PM

Still, I've got some consolidating to do, and I'm happy to wait until March or even April to get that sweet 1 sat/vbyte.

You can do it now, it will very likely get confirmed within a few days. Don't worry.

edit:

We got 2336 1-2 sat/byte transactions confirmed in the last 12 days:
https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/transactions?q=block_id(669000..680000),fee_per_kb(1000..2000)&s=id(asc),fee_per_kb(desc)#

few examples:
https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/transaction/612702324
https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/transaction/612704639
https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/transaction/612706083

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: bitmover on February 15, 2021, 06:52:12 PM

I don't think it will take that long. In the graphic you posted the mempool was nearly cleared at 30/01.

That big dip at 30/01 is a simple bug. Perhaps the node they are using for their data went offline for a few minutes, or purged its mempool for some reason and had to re-receive all the unconfirmed transactions. There is no way that 70 MB of transactions were processed that quickly and then replace with 70 MB of new ones.

HCP is right. The mempool hasn't been below 50 MB since January 7th, and as long as we continue this ridiculous bull run, it won't be for a long time yet I would think. There are probably also a few dozen more MB of low fee transactions which have been dropped in that time.

Still, I've got some consolidating to do, and I'm happy to wait until March or even April to get that sweet 1 sat/vbyte. I don't mind paying a higher fee when needed, but consolidation can always wait.

bitmover

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Quote from: HCP on February 15, 2021, 06:27:33 PM

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on February 15, 2021, 01:21:48 PM

Alternatively, if you aren't in a hurry, wait until the mempool empties and then consolidate at 1 sat/vbyte.

Could be waiting quite a long time for that to happen again... The mempool hasn't been close to empty for quite a while now Undecided

https://mempool.space/graphs#1m

I don't think it will take that long. In the graphic you posted the mempool was nearly cleared at 30/01.

And there were other moments last week (07/02) when a 3 sat/byte would also get a confirmation as well.

Personally, I would just fire a 1 sat/byte transaction with all those 40 inputs and wait.
It is probably going to take at least 1 week to get a confirmation. By the end of the month he will very likely to have all inputs in a single UTXO for a very low fee...

Using this tool, 40 inputs and 1 output would have about 6000 to 2700 bytes (depending on address format) and a 1 sat/byte transaction would range from 0.00002794 to 0.00006 BTC to transact (depending on format, from 1.30 to 3.00 usd)

I would certainly make a 1sat/byte tx.

HCP

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on February 15, 2021, 01:21:48 PM

Alternatively, if you aren't in a hurry, wait until the mempool empties and then consolidate at 1 sat/vbyte.

Could be waiting quite a long time for that to happen again... The mempool hasn't been close to empty for quite a while now Undecided

https://mempool.space/graphs#1m

I've been wanting to consolidate some stuff... and it's just not feasible with the current network state Sad

Even the traditionally "quiet" weekend periods have been busy. And you can't just fire off a 1 sat/vbyte transaction and hope for the best any more... with a flooded mempool, the current mempool min fee is like 2 sats/vbyte Roll Eyes

Topic: Small UTXOs (Read 352 times)