Smart people support Socialism. - page 2.

Branko

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Quote from: vasilev456 on October 17, 2018, 02:16:29 AM

I doubt that Einstein supported socialism, but this is not the case, the version of socialism that existed in the USSR was just awful, that is why Russia remained with a lot of debts and a government that continued to rob the country and the people!

Actually, debt-wise, USA is worst case by far...luckily, they have biggest army and plane carriers, so they don't have to repay
their debt (or, you can try to ask it repayed like Ghadaffi tried, and you saw what happened)

vasilev456

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I doubt that Einstein supported socialism, but this is not the case, the version of socialism that existed in the USSR was just awful, that is why Russia remained with a lot of debts and a government that continued to rob the country and the people!

Branko

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Socialism (Nikola Tesla) is doomed in fight with capitalism (Thomas Edison) despite been morally superior
as long as most of humanity don't mentally evolve to be more like Tesla than like Edison

Wete

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Maybe not the person but the knowledge that is beneficial to the world. Sometimes there are also smart people who like to be alone do not like to share (property) with others, but he will use his knowledge for the progress of the world and of course it will have a positive impact for many people. And this is far more useful than he shares his property.

unusualfacts30

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Quote from: usekevin on October 11, 2018, 01:35:24 PM

Quote from: Dig Bicks on October 09, 2018, 03:50:41 PM

Einstein supported socialism.

Pyschos like Trump support capitalism.

Everybody had their own view on this.It is doesn't mean,you are brilliant .If you had supported socialism or capitalism. My preference is Socialism. Most of the people like the socialism. Because in socialism, people is important. In a socialistic government, people will get atleast minimum need. Whereas in capitalist country, the government is work for the individual business man.The people in capitalist country also like socialism.

Everyone has their own preference but I think definition is rather skewed at this point on what is socialism and capitalism. We live in an environment which is rather a mixture of both and I would say it is more of totalitarian than socialism or capitalism. There are countries where socialism work fine but you have to start from the begining, switching from capitalism to socialism is not easy as it requires many deep change in the society but as I said we don't live in capitalism either, we live in totaliterism if that's the wor :)d.

erikoy

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Quote from: Ozero on October 11, 2018, 01:02:00 PM

In my opinion, it should be recognized that socialism as an ideology opposing capitalism has long since exhausted itself. In fact, socialism has failed since the collapse of the USSR. In my opinion, the last country that still consistently supported socialist principles was Cuba.

Well there are good things that happen to a country that support this ideology "if" it will be manage accordingly. The way government interact should under the influence of the community. However, most of this completely fails for people who are in the government position were greedy with powers so they control the community and this will bring to civil war. I do like this ideology but I do not usually like the people who run an ideology like this.

Quote from: Dig Bicks on October 09, 2018, 03:50:41 PM

Einstein supported socialism.

Pyschos like Trump support capitalism.

I do not really know about this if it is really that intentional when Trump supported capitalism. Maybe he is only aiming for the good of its constituents without observing any ideology.

Ewinsane

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Quote from: Dig Bicks on October 09, 2018, 03:50:41 PM

Einstein supported socialism.

Pyschos like Trump support capitalism.

People are mistaking what socialism is and what communism is in this thread.

First of all even China has McDonald so no country is truly pure socialist or pure capitalist or pure communist. You have to see there are some laws that resembles socialist ideas and there are some laws that is still quite discrimination based even to this day and there are of course laws for capitalists and communists.

For example, having the right to get an abortion whenever you want is quite socialist, yet the conservatives hate that law, however having guns are quite conservative idea and socialists hate it, these are all american laws, same country, two very different idea based laws.

Socialism, capitalism, communism, conservatism you can have laws for all of these, you can't become a country with full of same ideas, some laws will be right, some laws will be left. Usually whichever would make you get more votes as politician.

Branko

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Quote from: cellard on October 11, 2018, 08:44:08 PM

Quote from: STT on October 11, 2018, 07:20:23 PM

Quote from: fairyvibes on October 11, 2018, 01:59:57 PM

The wealthy people sabotaged the attempts at socialism. They wanted socialism to fail around the world so they can keep their wealth and continue to dominate poor people.

Sabotaged is not a great description because any system which is going to encompass an entire country is going to require resilience and stand the test of time over many generations in order that we can draw the conclusion it has a worth and basis to value it within the laws of a country.
If socialism is that easily hijacked by a small but well funded section of society then it appears it does not qualify as safe to trust for the many millions who must work and sleep under its banner through all the stages of their lives.

Capitalism on the other hand is on the simple basis of free enterprise, available to all through human ingenuity. At present most western countries compromised capitalism with over 50% of GDP caught in a super structure of government, thats not free enterprise

It's similar to how Bitcoin is awesomely resilient against attacks. Basically the better the incentives are to keep a system working the longer it will survive.

Capitalism will always prevail due crab in a bucket mentality of masses, masses always fail to cooperate to dethrone their masters, most of the smartest people will end up working for the elite. And when they do, new masters are formed replacing previous masters and the cycle goes on.

I would only start questioning Capitalism on the very long term, perhaps 1000 years from now humanity has somehow reached levels of cooperation never fathomed in current times that will make us look like inbreed savages. Until then, Bitcoin seems to be the thing that makes the most sense within the capitalist framework.

30-40 years at most

And bitcoin is not resilient at all, its actually manipulated all the time

And also BTC seems to work best in socialist framework, Venezuelans use crypto a lot

BTMgoMoon

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Guests should see this stability. No perfection is perfect. Socialism is better, but it is now early. Capitalism has come to an end and they have become battlefields between classes. Socialism is the future of mankind. Capitalism is only a flash in the pan, and future capitalism will lead to the division of the country.

cellard

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Quote from: STT on October 11, 2018, 07:20:23 PM

Quote from: fairyvibes on October 11, 2018, 01:59:57 PM

The wealthy people sabotaged the attempts at socialism. They wanted socialism to fail around the world so they can keep their wealth and continue to dominate poor people.

Sabotaged is not a great description because any system which is going to encompass an entire country is going to require resilience and stand the test of time over many generations in order that we can draw the conclusion it has a worth and basis to value it within the laws of a country.
If socialism is that easily hijacked by a small but well funded section of society then it appears it does not qualify as safe to trust for the many millions who must work and sleep under its banner through all the stages of their lives.

Capitalism on the other hand is on the simple basis of free enterprise, available to all through human ingenuity. At present most western countries compromised capitalism with over 50% of GDP caught in a super structure of government, thats not free enterprise

It's similar to how Bitcoin is awesomely resilient against attacks. Basically the better the incentives are to keep a system working the longer it will survive.

Capitalism will always prevail due crab in a bucket mentality of masses, masses always fail to cooperate to dethrone their masters, most of the smartest people will end up working for the elite. And when they do, new masters are formed replacing previous masters and the cycle goes on.

I would only start questioning Capitalism on the very long term, perhaps 1000 years from now humanity has somehow reached levels of cooperation never fathomed in current times that will make us look like inbreed savages. Until then, Bitcoin seems to be the thing that makes the most sense within the capitalist framework.

STT

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Quote from: fairyvibes on October 11, 2018, 01:59:57 PM

The wealthy people sabotaged the attempts at socialism. They wanted socialism to fail around the world so they can keep their wealth and continue to dominate poor people.

Sabotaged is not a great description because any system which is going to encompass an entire country is going to require resilience and stand the test of time over many generations in order that we can draw the conclusion it has a worth and basis to value it within the laws of a country.
If socialism is that easily hijacked by a small but well funded section of society then it appears it does not qualify as safe to trust for the many millions who must work and sleep under its banner through all the stages of their lives.

Capitalism on the other hand is on the simple basis of free enterprise, available to all through human ingenuity. At present most western countries compromised capitalism with over 50% of GDP caught in a super structure of government, thats not free enterprise

andika2018

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Not all part socialism bad. Some part of socialism are good. Like sharing to poor people. I dont think all smart people like socialism but i do believe every body like sharing their happiness

SkyFlakes

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Quote from: Dig Bicks on October 09, 2018, 03:50:41 PM

Einstein supported socialism.

Pyschos like Trump support capitalism.

It is indeed that samart people would support socialism. Smart people would not go for the self-interest but for the common good of everyone. Those who support capitalist are those who support deprivation to everyone. Ever since, I've seen capitalism as something that is for the interest of a person. It causes a lot of problems, that's why I strongly support socialism right now.

darklus123

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If we are going to talk about the idea of socialism for me it is really good and i guess that is the reason why einstein supported it before.

I mean who doesn't want a fair system right?

However, if we are going to talk about it right now. All of its advantages are just purely theoretical.

Plus all those evil politicians were able to turned the tables around like what is currently happening in socialism countries. They make the socialism advantages into their benefits

FunGate

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I think that "smart people" are simply disillusioned and thoroughly understand the future implications of their actions. They know that you cannot win without somebody else losing given the current economic model. Finding a reasonable balance between the winners and losers is essential in creating a stable society.

There are plenty of dumb socialists and capitalists though, but hey, ignorance is bliss. Maybe it's the smart ones that are dumb...

Rath_

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I am surprised that many people still support socialism. Is it because they are undereducated or believe that having more money makes them richer? Let me use Poland as an example. Our "right-wing" ruling party gives 500 PLN (about 125 EUR) per month for the second and any consecutive children until they reach the age of 18. The aim of this programme is too boost child birth rate and guess what is happening. It barely affects it. Now we have to enjoy having 38 new taxes and higher VAT which won't decrease to 22% as it was planned.

I understand that some people might face financial problems not because of their own fault. However, giving away money to almost everyone is definitely not a solution.

Irvinn

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Quote from: KryptoKomsamol on October 11, 2018, 01:43:19 PM

Quote from: Rustamm on October 09, 2018, 04:22:38 PM

Quote from: Dig Bicks on October 09, 2018, 03:50:41 PM

Einstein supported socialism.

Pyschos like Trump support capitalism.

I myself grew up in the USSR. I know well the ideology of socialism, and from today's position I can say that socialism is just a utopia, an unfulfilled dream of idiots. It seems that it was just a dead end development of society. It gradually distorts values and unofficially introduces a double morality. Socialism in the name of the people destroys its people. It is better to simply develop, improve and humanize a society without any ideological superstructures.

You definatly did not live in either socialistic or a communistic regime, the regime you lived in is best described as totalitarism. That is why you have such a negative view on socialism, because what you call socialism isnt socialism at all. In fact Comusinm is possible, to an extent at least, you dont understand it because you refuse to think or just simply brainwashed by powers that rule the modern world.

In fact of the matter. Ideal socialism, with its slogan about the equality of all people, as well as its main principle: from each according to his ability, to each according to his work, looks good only on paper. In practice, no socialist state was able to fully implement it. The human factor constantly worked, namely: egoism, suspicion, vanity, arrogance, dullness of people who were in power and all good undertakings were distorted. For example, Stalin during the years he was in power because he put forward the idea that as socialism developed, resistance of anti-socialist forces would grow, he declared the enemies of the people and destroyed tens of millions of its citizens using the apparatus created by him.

fairyvibes

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The wealthy people sabotaged the attempts at socialism. They wanted socialism to fail around the world so they can keep their wealth and continue to dominate poor people.

Gozie51

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Quote from: bitmover on October 09, 2018, 06:18:46 PM

Socialist countries like Venezuela and north Korea control its fiat an manipulate it like any other capitalist country does.

But what are even the achievement of socialism or socialist countries? They are not even practicing as they are preaching, they live a fearful life. They want to run away from trouble but trouble never seize to come Grin

Quote from: Dig Bicks on October 09, 2018, 03:50:41 PM

Pyschos like Trump support capitalism.

USA has always been a capitalist country before the emergence of Trump as president. Countries who openly practice capitalism are progressives, they present to you what they want straight up and give you what share you can get too. So before you start up anything, you know what you are bargaining for.

I remember that Karl Marx was one of the strongest proponents of capitalism . He might not like it though but he exposed both the benefits and demerits of it.

STT

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Quote from: Rustamm on October 09, 2018, 04:22:38 PM

Quote from: Dig Bicks on October 09, 2018, 03:50:41 PM

Einstein supported socialism.

Pyschos like Trump support capitalism.

I myself grew up in the USSR. I know well the ideology of socialism, and from today's position I can say that socialism is just a utopia, an unfulfilled dream of idiots. It seems that it was just a dead end development of society. It gradually distorts values and unofficially introduces a double morality.

Unfortunately thats not an uncommon experience of socialism. Socialism is great until it runs out of other peoples money then its a failure. Main problem with this whole argument would be assuming Trump represents capitalism when he commands one of the largest most subsidised and unbalanced governments thats ever existed. USSR fell over because they ran out of other peoples money, mainly their countrymen where as USA famously commands the world global reserve currency system and is able to print as much as required at will.
That too will work until it doesnt, right now its obviously not balanced because of such large deficits and trillions in debt, likely impossible to repay. The debt of each USA citizen amounts to 70,000 each which does not appear to be a system which can continue. My point being Trump also represents a failed socialist experiment

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