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Topic: Smart property - page 2. (Read 5978 times)

hero member
Activity: 743
Merit: 500
October 03, 2012, 04:24:30 AM
#30
Potential for smart property
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1L3o88GKew
donator
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1019
September 28, 2012, 04:18:31 AM
#29
That's true, good idea. You could just store the ticket in your phone and tap it to some reader on the turnstile to get in.

Perhaps a thought for a future Bitcoin conference :-)

grand idea! *remembers the fiddling with printed lists in London*
legendary
Activity: 1022
Merit: 1033
September 27, 2012, 12:58:30 PM
#28
It could be as simple as "if you hold this token, I will pay you bond interest" in the distributed bond case.

Shameless self-plug: I'm working on implementation, it is called "colored bitcoin": https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/chromawallet-colored-coins-issue-and-trade-private-currenciesstocksbonds-106373

legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1100
September 27, 2012, 11:57:37 AM
#27
Smart property would be a good way of enabling secure re-sale of electronic event tickets (to sports, concerts etc).

Exact-a-mundo ;p

Smart property simply proves that you "own" a digital token, nothing more.

So, as such, I think it is less like DRM that protects Apple's iTunes.  Nothing is encrypted, you are simply proving ownership.

The system that connects "proven ownership of digital token" to something useful is left open.  It could be as simple as "if you hold this token, I will pay you bond interest" in the distributed bond case.

legendary
Activity: 1526
Merit: 1134
September 27, 2012, 11:50:37 AM
#26
That's true, good idea. You could just store the ticket in your phone and tap it to some reader on the turnstile to get in.

Perhaps a thought for a future Bitcoin conference :-)
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1002
Hello!
September 27, 2012, 08:31:11 AM
#25
This is good, I've read your article before I saw it here. Good job. As for people complaining that we don't use it yet... we just need to start working on something haha
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1090
September 27, 2012, 07:49:09 AM
#24
Many years ago I used to suggest that if we aren't watchful some day no one would be able to even use a simple tool like a screwdriver unless their DNA was derived from Bill Gates' DNA, as the ratchet in the handle would simply refuse to work.

This seems to be heading us there a lot faster than if we had to wait for DNA identification systems that can fit into screwdrivers...

-MarkM-
hero member
Activity: 743
Merit: 500
September 27, 2012, 06:20:31 AM
#23
this company can use smart property protocol to unlock the scooters and not only for iphone but on the other devices as well
Video http://gigaom.com/cleantech/the-zipcar-of-electric-scooters-launches-to-the-public/
legendary
Activity: 1526
Merit: 1134
September 23, 2012, 05:45:03 AM
#22
Yes, it's a form of digital rights management and the assumption is the implementations will be strong enough that it's easier to just pay back the loan than break the crypto-locks. Eg, to break most vehicle immobilizer systems requires replacing the engine (except for BMW cars where they screwed up). Immobilizers are often not particularly competent DRM systems - some manufacturers don't even use real cryptography at all - but they're good enough to stop most car thieves.

If you want to take things to an extreme, Bitcoin itself is just a form of DRM - the rights it manages are claims on quantities of value, and it manages those claims digitally to ensure you don't "copy" the value (double spend).

I don't have any personal problems with DRM - the idea that it's inherently evil is dogma and we should rise above it to examine the arguments on their merits. Locks of any form, whether digital or not, arise when the legal system cannot satisfactorily provide enough security because it's too hard to build and process a case against perpetrators of a crime. Without door locks burglaries would be a lot more common and most of them would go unpunished. Likewise, the legal system has shown itself incapable of handling copyright infringement even when the evidence is watertight, so content creators naturally resort to technical measures.

This leads to the question of whether the crypto-locks on smart property would be trustable (by the lender). Computer security systems of all kinds have a patchy track record but especially DRM.

I think it's absolutely possible to build systems that are good enough for this. The success of immobilizers show that even very weak digital security was a huge upgrade over analogue/physical locks and slashed car thefts. Systems built by experts tend to be even stronger.

These things come in generations. I'd expect the first few generations of smart property systems to have flaws that lead to them breaking. Over time defenders learn from experience and get better. We can see this with the development of pay-TV encryption, games console security, video disc security and so on. The difficulty of breaking later generations was orders of magnitude higher than for earlier generations. Eventually it reaches a point where the attackers go away. I've seen it happen multiple times.

Quote
Mike do patents, copyrights, trademarks for "Smart property protocol" only for Bitcoin blockchain,this should be under the control of the core team

Re: patents. You can't patent something that has already been disclosed (at least not in theory).

One reason I've been doing all this research is to try and ensure nobody actually does patent these features or protocols. Arguably Bitcoin has bigger problems to fix right now, but long-term public research is important to avoid trolls tying up the use of ideas that are too important to own.
member
Activity: 80
Merit: 10
September 22, 2012, 10:34:17 PM
#21
I've written a new article covering smart property, that is, physical items in the real world whose ownership is controlled by the Bitcoin block chain. You can find it here:

  https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Smart_Property

I give cars, phones and house locks as examples of things which can be traded or used as collateral in a cryptographically mediated way. Feedback welcome as always.

So if you give me a loan to buy an Iphone are you going to write into the contract that I'm not allowed to jailbreak it?  And isn't that the same as not paying a third party to implement the hair-brained DRM in the first place and just ask nicely to abide by the terms of the contract?
donator
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1019
September 22, 2012, 04:42:51 PM
#20
A guy named Nick Szabo has been writing about similar ideas since the mid-to-late 1990s.

Without intending to disparage the intellectual effort involved in the creation/maintenance of the idea, I hate it for the same reasons and in the same way I hate DRM and "copy protection". It's the same thing, but applied to physical items, and I believe it will fail in similar ways.

No, it's not the same thing: you can't just copy a car... wait!
member
Activity: 113
Merit: 10
September 22, 2012, 02:08:41 PM
#19
A guy named Nick Szabo has been writing about similar ideas since the mid-to-late 1990s.

Without intending to disparage the intellectual effort involved in the creation/maintenance of the idea, I hate it for the same reasons and in the same way I hate DRM and "copy protection". It's the same thing, but applied to physical items, and I believe it will fail in similar ways.
hero member
Activity: 743
Merit: 500
September 22, 2012, 01:04:51 PM
#18
bingo,this is big
Mike do patents, copyrights, trademarks for "Smart property protocol" only for Bitcoin blockchain,this should be under the control of the core team
newbie
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
September 22, 2012, 12:48:54 PM
#17
This would work well for anything that cannot be picked up and hidden. Land, intellectual property(patents, copyrights, trademarks etc) and other such items would be transferable without the need for a central authority.
hero member
Activity: 743
Merit: 500
September 22, 2012, 11:08:14 AM
#16
Also, DRM on music/movies/content/ppv (physical disc, or digital download) could potentially be implemented as a smart property, this seems more likely in the near term than the car scenario.
Don't tell to Hollywood  Grin
full member
Activity: 147
Merit: 100
September 21, 2012, 08:07:50 AM
#15
wouldn't namecoin be better suited for that purpose?
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
September 21, 2012, 07:56:25 AM
#14
I've written a new article covering smart property, that is, physical items in the real world whose ownership is controlled by the Bitcoin block chain. You can find it here:

  https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Smart_Property

I give cars, phones and house locks as examples of things which can be traded or used as collateral in a cryptographically mediated way. Feedback welcome as always.

After my London stay, hotel room locks come to mind also Wink

EDIT: I'm trying to come up with more "immediate" (not that Mikes examples are unrealistic, they are just a bit far away for now) examples, something we can do now, rather than after having the automobile industry embrace bitcoin, which might take another year or 1.5 ;->.

Maybe access to gaming platforms is feasable, or access to servers? Could we make a pam module?


Also seen in London: unattended public bike rentals, similar to the car situation.  Like your hotel lock example, once internet connectivity becomes cheap and widespread enough to embed anywhere, you could potentially "smartify" all kinds of miniobjects like parking spaces or stadium seats whereby they'd restrict or allow occupancy through blockchain address ownership, instead of using meters or physical tickets.

Also, DRM on music/movies/content/ppv (physical disc, or digital download) could potentially be implemented as a smart property, this seems more likely in the near term than the car scenario.
legendary
Activity: 1526
Merit: 1134
September 21, 2012, 07:51:29 AM
#13
Yes, a PAM module or OpenSSH extension is possible. Access to remote computers is mentioned on the smart property wiki page as a possible use case. It ties together with the idea of agents quite nicely.
donator
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1019
September 21, 2012, 05:29:32 AM
#12
I've written a new article covering smart property, that is, physical items in the real world whose ownership is controlled by the Bitcoin block chain. You can find it here:

  https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Smart_Property

I give cars, phones and house locks as examples of things which can be traded or used as collateral in a cryptographically mediated way. Feedback welcome as always.

After my London stay, hotel room locks come to mind also Wink

EDIT: I'm trying to come up with more "immediate" (not that Mikes examples are unrealistic, they are just a bit far away for now) examples, something we can do now, rather than after having the automobile industry embrace bitcoin, which might take another year or 1.5 ;->.

Maybe access to gaming platforms is feasable, or access to servers? Could we make a pam module?
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 250
September 20, 2012, 11:51:01 AM
#11
holy fucking shit to this, which i am just seeing and necroing.

more attention please?
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