Topic: Snowden Lied About China Contacts (Read 1608 times)

most people don't know, but the USA government repealed the law that stopped themselves from using propaganda on its own citizens last summer

http://www.heavy.com/news/2013/07/domestic-propaganda-smith-mundt-ndaa/


the State is in full effect

lol... the same reason why George W Bush and Billary hasn't been charged with crimes against humanity (as yet).

The top-down order eventually succumbs to failure which is often horrific, as explained in the linked Madmax outcome thread. The dog mauling is a microcosm example of greater horrors perhaps coming soon to all of us since all western nations have adopted all planks of the Communist Manifesto and top-down control pervades.

The chaos of trying to survive what is coming results in a bottom-up (dis)order, i.e. greater entropy.

Then out of the ashes humans will again repeat the same mistakes and rebuild the top-down order again.

Welcome to the hamster wheel of history.

My solution: "fuck it all. Create an anonymous cryptocurrency, then prepare popcorn to watch the chaos on CNN".

We cannot go to war with china. They have our Foxconn.

Among other things. This country wouldnt last a week without china.

Don't fuck with my iGadgets.

I do not know what you are saying in the quote you provided about dogs, but this is what I was asking about in my first question. What if control on top starts to fight, American government and China government, but the people they control do not support them? What will outcome be? Well top control destroy each other while down controlled just watch? Will top control force those they control to fight, making them hate them more? Will American government use propaganda on Americans to make them support them again, like they did after 9/11, when American president was extremely unpopular, but then gained much popularity and support for things that lead to what Snowden has revealed? If this becomes a fight, I can not see how this fight will become.

The enemy of your enemy is elimination of top-down control. China's ruling elite don't qualify.

Two questions I am now pondering.

1. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. American government is enemy of people, so if China starts fighting with America, even if China is also enemy of people, will that be bad? Even more importantly, what if American government starts to fight with China, while being unpopular with the people they rule? What are possible outcomes of that?

2. If all this spying was for private sector, I guess even in anarchocapitalist society, there will still always be spying. I guess that is to be expected, but is this spying better or worse than government spying? Government forces people, and can use information it learned from spying to pass laws and arrest people. Private corporations can use such laws and arrests to their advantage. But if there is no such powerful government to pass laws and arrest, will not that make spying much more benign, limited mostly to trying to steal business secrets?

jballs,

I wonder if the real issue will ever arise from the Snowden show.

Who does the NSA work for?

Russel Tice claims they had Obama's phone tapped before he even won a senate seat.

Who has that information, assuming such was kept?

Snowden didn't work for NSA. He worked fro Booz Allen Hamilton. They are slightly removed subsidiary of Carlyle Group. Carlyle Group is neck deep in everything from military arms sales in India to hospitals in Turkey to energy plants in the US to banks in London. They employed GH Bush Sr at the same time they had Bin Laden family money invested.

Forget the tinfoil hat stuff around those facts, are we really to believe the Carlyle Group doesn't exploit its access created by Booz Allen and the network Snowden revealed, to further their global private business interests that have nothing to do with national security?

To me that defies any reasonable expectation of restraint. I think it is far more reasonable to conclude that the bulk of the NSA is privatized and working for private interests moreso than they are working for Congress, or the executive branch, or the military, or the American people. Somehow the arrangement of a  private corporate structure is entirely overlooked in the Snowden debate.

With that in mind it is entirely possible that if Snowden revealed Chinese surveillance information, it may well have had nothing to do with national security. It may have been private companies leveraging the network for strategic market advantage. Whether that is treasonous is probably a question for the public to address, amidst a full congressional inquiry into the legality privatization of the security apparatus.

Just my opinion/speculation.  

When we get rid of the whole fscking thing called "government" by eliminating their ability to tax and regulate virtual commerce (i.e. the future of all high valued commerce), there are going to be a lot of people with no fscking idea how to fend for and protect themselves.

In short, socialists will die. Individualists will prosper.

I wish it was done already.

I don't need any NSA to do spying on China! Let China try to invade the USA where there is a gun under every blade of grass. We real Americans would love that. We Southerners are sitting on our porches locked and loaded. Bring it on Chinaman!

As for China's nuclear weapons and submarines, don't we still have sufficient deterrent to reduce their major cities to dust.

Besides China has no blue water navy and thus can't project power at such a distance. Otherwise they might do better to invade Europe which is a bunch of pussies for men who think only the government should have guns. But don't worry, because Russia may be doing that.

The whole fscking thing called "government" is not needed. It is a mafia. The CIA is deep into the drug trade for example. Even a CIA plane crashed loaded with drugs.

Besides at the highest levels, China and USA are cooperating behind the scenes to paint a drama to make us believe they are at odds. The elite in China are cooperating with the elite in every western country.

The charade is just so we are deluded into thinking there is some real purpose to government, other than the fact that it is a way to give control to the criminals.

national security agency is a euphemism for "agency that does whatever the fuck it wants, however the fuck it wants."

just like how our defense industry is just a euphemism for "we're going to kill and invade whoever the fuck we want."

Join the US government and never have to fear any real punishment, no matter how heinous or miniscule your victimful crime. You could slit babies' throats in the Rose Garden in front of the entire world press' cameras. Think that's hyperbole? Tell it to all the defenseless victims of democide.

Clapper is officially the worst bullshitter, hows this guy not been charged?

What would it take anyone from the obama administration to be fired? Not even the death of an ambassador or the secretary of state lying in the face of the parents, the coffins near her feet.

So clapper lying to a hearing is like no big deal, as long as they "do it for the good of the people". It is obvious the broad silence of the media regarding the NSA abuse is the real scandal.

Think about it: How many times did we hear about romney and a dog he forgot on the roof of his car 30 years ago during the campaign? Remember the cover of the million muppet march in DC? Google image it.

Now keep those two elements in your mind and compare them to the energy the media are putting behind each Snowden releases. Are we still supposed to believe the media is defending the citizen at large?

"But come on Wilikon! It was a presidential campaign!! Of course the energy and the money will flow much faster!!! Of course the media will cover the million muppet march in DC!!!! Those muppet puppets helped obama win! All of them!!!!!"

They're playing that classic American "Oh but these guys are much worse than us, if we didn't deal with them they'd come after you" card

I said that we will only hear about the "bad" leaks even though the "good" ones could not have happened without the "bad" ones.  I'm also saying that there will be a lot of people saying he should not be pardoned.  The real reason is that he exposed people like Clapper as having lied under oath. 

What they shouldn't have done and what they continue doing is to spy on the great bulk of Americian citizens, which is exactly what they promised repeatedly not to do (we are talking from 9/11/2001 forward to today).
I don't care if they have the farce of 'secret court approval' or not, and I also don't care if they have the approval of whatever POTUS is in charge.

There's no way around this issue.  I suspect what we'll see is a continuing, insistent bullying to keep this power, a continued attempt to influence media to not report it or under report it. 

Like it or not, Obama owns this issue and it seems like it moves the whole of the "Democratic party" in a totalitarian direction.  In fact, the NSA cannot spy on all Americans without turning the state into an Orwellian nightmare.  That's the very definition of such a thing.

So you are saying that Snowden shouldn't reveal any activity which could cause diplomatic issues?
In part I agree with that because it could lead to much worse events but at the same time I don't think it's fair.
That's what they do and we all imagine that but they shouldn't leave a trail behind them.
Now they must pay the consequences

Snowden is in a trap.  The steps he took to steal the data that exposed NSA surveillance also stole a lot of other data. Most sensible people agree that exposing the NSA's law breaking was a good thing.  But the exposure of the NSA hacking into Chinese computers was seen as not being a good thing.  That, after all, is what the NSA is paid to do.  

The way I see it, Snowden had to either allow the NSA to carry on its illegal acts or he had to risk a lot of "good" things being exposed along with the illegal acts.  We can expect to be bombarded with the "good" things he exposed for years now as the NSA is totally opposed to Obama giving him a pardon when he leaves office in 2017.

Just another propaganda piece from the US authorities. First let them take care of their own lies. Bunch of morons.