Topic: So I went down to the bitcoin ATM today... - page 4. (Read 13529 times)
Some people just should stop using computers.
She's a possible victim of Cryptolocker?
I wonder why people invest/buy something, without educating themselves first.
I wonder why people invest/buy something, without educating themselves first.
Yes, it was definitely CryptoLocker or something similar. I will edit my original post to make this point more explicit.
Interestingly, the older lady told me that "Russians" were responsible for the virus as though it was a statement of fact. [I've seen no evidence to suggest where the virus originated.]
The other thing I noticed from this experience: I could tell she viewed bitcoin as completely independent from the virus. Bitcoins were "a thing she buys" and the virus was "Russian hackers." She was a bit hard to get clear facts out of, but she mumbled something about.... some other way to pay.....she tried and it didn't work.....so she wanted to get a bitcoin now. I am sure she assumed there were bitcoin ATMs all over.
It will probably force a great many people to learn how to buy bitcoins as well, however tragic a method it may be (in truth it is likely to be doing them a favor in a perverse way, as they are more likely to keep some for themselves...it could be what gives them that final push off the fence).
Revolution happens in the strangest ways.
Revolution happens in the strangest ways.
No I strongly disagree with this. If anything it will turn them off from Bitcoin and they will always associate it with evil.
Given the rampant "success" of Cryptolocker, I'm sure we'll see many copycats. Hackers now have serious financial incentive to break into people's systems.
Someone was asking on reddit today whether Bitcoin would force people to take security seriously. Maybe, but Cryptolocker and others like it will really force people to (or pay up). It will probably force a great many people to learn how to buy bitcoins as well, however tragic a method it may be (in truth it is likely to be doing them a favor in a perverse way, as they are more likely to keep some for themselves...it could be what gives them that final push off the fence).
Revolution happens in the strangest ways.
Someone was asking on reddit today whether Bitcoin would force people to take security seriously. Maybe, but Cryptolocker and others like it will really force people to (or pay up). It will probably force a great many people to learn how to buy bitcoins as well, however tragic a method it may be (in truth it is likely to be doing them a favor in a perverse way, as they are more likely to keep some for themselves...it could be what gives them that final push off the fence).
Revolution happens in the strangest ways.
Thanks Zanglebert. I was waiting for someone to say this--it was the conclusion my father and I came to as we drove home from the ATM.
In a perverse way--and so long as viruses like CryptoLocker stay 'honest' and unlock your files when you pay up--they give people a lesson they won't forget in the importance of computer security *and* they force them to discover this great new thing called bitcoin. I don't want to understate the frustration and pain this virus has caused, but the old saying "what doesn't kill you only makes you stronger" certainly applies here.
How did you not realise and tell her that its a virus?!?!? 
She already knew it was a virus. Like you implied, it's pretty obvious that when your computer says "pay me 1 BTC or I nuke the files" that it's not Mr. Gates on the other end. I was trying to write in an entertaining way, because explaining every reference gets tiring for both reader and writer.
In case you didn't get that reference: Mr Gates is short for William Henry "Bill" Gates III , the co-founder and current chairman of Microsoft. Microsoft is the company that owns the Windows Operating. The Windows operating system is what the older lady was running when her computer told her that it wanted a bitcoin. So when I say it wasn't "Mr. Gates on the other end" I am making a reference that obviously this is not normal Windows behaviour and is thus likely the result of something bad that has made its way into her PC.
See what I mean about getting tiring to explain every reference?
She's a possible victim of Cryptolocker?
I wonder why people invest/buy something, without educating themselves first.
I wonder why people invest/buy something, without educating themselves first.
Quote
The fact that bitcoins is still hard to use for the average person probably saved her some money. If the ransom was in dollars, the money would be lost already, and the kidnapper would be asking for more as we speak.
AFAIK, Cryptolocker offers the choice of dollars too (in the form of a MoneyPak) so she could have just gone down to the Walmart and gotten a card.
Here's my question. Does the trojan securely wipe and delete the original files? Or can they be "undeleted" if the drive was not full? Although I think the bad guys would have thought of securely erasing the original files after they have been encrypted so the ransom must be paid.
They likely encrypt in place, so unless your HDD is less than 50% full and ALL writes are only in completely new sectors, you will loose data. Also they have all the time in the world to slowly encrypt (transparently) your files, then, as soon as the task is done, switch to ransom mode by sending off the key(s) and only displaying the splash page.I also think that they will likely give back the keys (even though that might cause them some trouble since they need another interaction with the victim) - after all they can re-infect a few months later and get ANOTHER payment, now even from victims that know the process of how to get BTC and pay them.
Even if you pay, there is a chance that you won't get any decryption key. After all, customer service is not exactly what these guys are up to, as most of their customers don't want to deal with them in the future again.
Word on the street is that the dudes keep their word for better or worst. You pay up on time, your files get decrypted. You pay late by 1 minute or don't pay at all and you're screwed, it just uninstalls itself and leaves you with a bunch of encrypted files.
There is a 0% chance that you can recover any files from her PC without paying - the people that code these viruses do know their stuff and crypto.
Even if you pay, there is a chance that you won't get any decryption key. After all, customer service is not exactly what these guys are up to, as most of their customers don't want to deal with them in the future again.
You help her best by getting her a backup software, reformatting the PC and showing her how to do backups in the future. If you want to, you can try to pay the criminals instead, though I have my doubts that it'll work. Once Bitcoin ATMs become more widespread, these kinds of "data kidnapping" will also spread out, they already accept other digital payments like paysafecard for quite some time now.
The fact that bitcoins is still hard to use for the average person probably saved her some money. If the ransom was in dollars, the money would be lost already, and the kidnapper would be asking for more as we speak. Even if you pay, there is a chance that you won't get any decryption key. After all, customer service is not exactly what these guys are up to, as most of their customers don't want to deal with them in the future again.
You help her best by getting her a backup software, reformatting the PC and showing her how to do backups in the future. If you want to, you can try to pay the criminals instead, though I have my doubts that it'll work. Once Bitcoin ATMs become more widespread, these kinds of "data kidnapping" will also spread out, they already accept other digital payments like paysafecard for quite some time now.
How did you not realise and tell her that its a virus?!?!?
Here's my question. Does the trojan securely wipe and delete the original files? Or can they be "undeleted" if the drive was not full? Although I think the bad guys would have thought of securely erasing the original files after they have been encrypted so the ransom must be paid.
There is a 0% chance that you can recover any files from her PC without paying - the people that code these viruses do know their stuff and crypto.
Even if you pay, there is a chance that you won't get any decryption key. After all, customer service is not exactly what these guys are up to, as most of their customers don't want to deal with them in the future again.
You help her best by getting her a backup software, reformatting the PC and showing her how to do backups in the future. If you want to, you can try to pay the criminals instead, though I have my doubts that it'll work. Once Bitcoin ATMs become more widespread, these kinds of "data kidnapping" will also spread out, they already accept other digital payments like paysafecard for quite some time now.
Even if you pay, there is a chance that you won't get any decryption key. After all, customer service is not exactly what these guys are up to, as most of their customers don't want to deal with them in the future again.
You help her best by getting her a backup software, reformatting the PC and showing her how to do backups in the future. If you want to, you can try to pay the criminals instead, though I have my doubts that it'll work. Once Bitcoin ATMs become more widespread, these kinds of "data kidnapping" will also spread out, they already accept other digital payments like paysafecard for quite some time now.
Given the rampant "success" of Cryptolocker, I'm sure we'll see many copycats. Hackers now have serious financial incentive to break into people's systems.
Someone was asking on reddit today whether Bitcoin would force people to take security seriously. Maybe, but Cryptolocker and others like it will really force people to (or pay up). It will probably force a great many people to learn how to buy bitcoins as well, however tragic a method it may be (in truth it is likely to be doing them a favor in a perverse way, as they are more likely to keep some for themselves...it could be what gives them that final push off the fence).
Revolution happens in the strangest ways.
Someone was asking on reddit today whether Bitcoin would force people to take security seriously. Maybe, but Cryptolocker and others like it will really force people to (or pay up). It will probably force a great many people to learn how to buy bitcoins as well, however tragic a method it may be (in truth it is likely to be doing them a favor in a perverse way, as they are more likely to keep some for themselves...it could be what gives them that final push off the fence).
Revolution happens in the strangest ways.
*sigh* did you look at her computer?
did you offer to have her send the hackers payment address to you, so you could handle the transaction for her? did you offer to inform her next of kin in a more technical terms what was happening?
damni wish you had a way to contact he
did you offer to have her send the hackers payment address to you, so you could handle the transaction for her? did you offer to inform her next of kin in a more technical terms what was happening?
damni wish you had a way to contact he
She was pretty flustered and said that it was actually her work computer, so I don't think she could take me there to see it. I told her that her bitcoins were on the paper, and that she had to keep the code hidden and safe. I gave her contact information for both the Bitcoiniacs (the owners of the machine) and the Bitcoin Co-op in Vancouver. Hopefully this was enough.
But it was really tough for me. I wish I could have done more. And then she says that she "paid $60" and I'm thinking "well that's not enough for 1 bitcoin." I just couldn't break it to her that it would likely cost a lot more than $60 to get her files back.
you did your best. she is old enough and can get help from a computer expert or someone else.
If this is true then that is so sad! god humanity makes me sick sometimes
Thank God she didn't loose her entire house to some banksters
Its amazing how bad security is on todays operating systems. How can we possible prevent stuff like this from happening?
Its amazing how bad security is on todays operating systems. How can we possible prevent stuff like this from happening?
I had a similar thing with a local meet, i sold the guy 1 bitcoin, then afterwards he told me it was to pay a hacker, he himself new nothing about bitcoin he had just been told that is what the hacker accepted.
I asked if he was in trouble of any kind and he said no it was personal and it was left at that..... i guess some people just see it as another form of sending money like western union, paypal or ukash.
I asked if he was in trouble of any kind and he said no it was personal and it was left at that..... i guess some people just see it as another form of sending money like western union, paypal or ukash.
This general theme is a SERIOUS problem. I sell bitcoins to people on localbitcoins.com. Most of the time, these people do not really know how to handle their bitcoins. I spend 2 hours with all of them. I started telling them to come into the sale with electrum downloaded so I can show them how to back up their wallets. And I end up explaining what a hash is.
It is our duty as people who stand to get very rich off this to help these people. This is for two reasons, one selfish and one unselfish.
1) if we do not quickly figure out how to make bitcoin idiot proof, we are going to run into problems with the media
2) it isn't very nice of us to stand by and watch someone fuck up their coins (op not saying you did. Just incensed rhetoric). It truly feel obligated to help them. Why? Because I know bitcoin took effort - it was pretty time consuming for me to unravel all the information when I adopted it. I am a fucking physicist by trade. I'm by no means insulting the general population... the fact is people like us have a clear advantage in handling this money which is distinct from fiat money.
I love bitcoin because of equality. I don't want to see people lose money because they are lacking in internet/computer/mathematics/problem solving competence that isnt related to earnings, wealth, and well...money.
This is especially true for the elderly. It's straight up NOT FAIR to expect them to use bitcoin the way it works now. This story struck a nerve because I imagined somebody taking advantage of my grandmother or even mother and father. We have a duty, really.
Please help others with bitcoin.
It is our duty as people who stand to get very rich off this to help these people. This is for two reasons, one selfish and one unselfish.
1) if we do not quickly figure out how to make bitcoin idiot proof, we are going to run into problems with the media
2) it isn't very nice of us to stand by and watch someone fuck up their coins (op not saying you did. Just incensed rhetoric). It truly feel obligated to help them. Why? Because I know bitcoin took effort - it was pretty time consuming for me to unravel all the information when I adopted it. I am a fucking physicist by trade. I'm by no means insulting the general population... the fact is people like us have a clear advantage in handling this money which is distinct from fiat money.
I love bitcoin because of equality. I don't want to see people lose money because they are lacking in internet/computer/mathematics/problem solving competence that isnt related to earnings, wealth, and well...money.
This is especially true for the elderly. It's straight up NOT FAIR to expect them to use bitcoin the way it works now. This story struck a nerve because I imagined somebody taking advantage of my grandmother or even mother and father. We have a duty, really.
Please help others with bitcoin.
I completely agree that it is our duty to help people--especially the elderly. I truly tried my best and, like I said, even offered to come look at her computer. At least she has contact info now for the Bitcoin Co-op and Bitcoiniacs (owner of the ATM).
It's funny: I was debating whether to post this story in fear that I would look insensitive. I hope I didn't come across that way. But I must admit that bitcoin seemed a bit more "real" to me after this experience (unfortunately, in a way the hurt someone) but real nonetheless.
lol what a bs madeup story
funny none the less
funny none the less
This is the well-known cryptolocker virus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CryptoLocker
I never thought I'd meet a victim, but there she was: about 5' 3", short grey hair, and looking very overwhelmed. I hope by now she's tried to contact Mitchell Demeter from Bitcoiniacs (owners of the machine) or the guys in the BitCoin Co-op to try to get some more help.
What I thought was interesting was that a person who had no idea about bitcoin a few days ago, somehow found the ATM, and then just drove on down to Waves to "buy one" without ever realizing the novelty of what they were doing.
This general theme is a SERIOUS problem. I sell bitcoins to people on localbitcoins.com. Most of the time, these people do not really know how to handle their bitcoins. I spend 2 hours with all of them. I started telling them to come into the sale with electrum downloaded so I can show them how to back up their wallets. And I end up explaining what a hash is.
It is our duty as people who stand to get very rich off this to help these people. This is for two reasons, one selfish and one unselfish.
1) if we do not quickly figure out how to make bitcoin idiot proof, we are going to run into problems with the media
2) it isn't very nice of us to stand by and watch someone fuck up their coins (op not saying you did. Just incensed rhetoric). It truly feel obligated to help them. Why? Because I know bitcoin took effort - it was pretty time consuming for me to unravel all the information when I adopted it. I am a fucking physicist by trade. I'm by no means insulting the general population... the fact is people like us have a clear advantage in handling this money which is distinct from fiat money.
I love bitcoin because of equality. I don't want to see people lose money because they are lacking in internet/computer/mathematics/problem solving competence that isnt related to earnings, wealth, and well...money.
This is especially true for the elderly. It's straight up NOT FAIR to expect them to use bitcoin the way it works now. This story struck a nerve because I imagined somebody taking advantage of my grandmother or even mother and father. We have a duty, really.
Please help others with bitcoin.
did crypto locker exist before this? surely the people are traceable? Why Bitcoin? Do you think it's sabotage related from higher forces. It is our duty as people who stand to get very rich off this to help these people. This is for two reasons, one selfish and one unselfish.
1) if we do not quickly figure out how to make bitcoin idiot proof, we are going to run into problems with the media
2) it isn't very nice of us to stand by and watch someone fuck up their coins (op not saying you did. Just incensed rhetoric). It truly feel obligated to help them. Why? Because I know bitcoin took effort - it was pretty time consuming for me to unravel all the information when I adopted it. I am a fucking physicist by trade. I'm by no means insulting the general population... the fact is people like us have a clear advantage in handling this money which is distinct from fiat money.
I love bitcoin because of equality. I don't want to see people lose money because they are lacking in internet/computer/mathematics/problem solving competence that isnt related to earnings, wealth, and well...money.
This is especially true for the elderly. It's straight up NOT FAIR to expect them to use bitcoin the way it works now. This story struck a nerve because I imagined somebody taking advantage of my grandmother or even mother and father. We have a duty, really.
Please help others with bitcoin.
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