Topic: So if China doesn't matter to BTC, what is causing the price to stay down? - page 2. (Read 2825 times)

Why do people think the price is "down"? It is exactly correct for the market forces that determine the price. It might be lower than you wish, but it is not low.

agree, i love the price and i love all the vc money going in. its the best time bitcoin ever had.

I am new here so I don't know what I am talking about and most likely will be labeled as a troll.

What I see is bunch of people sitting on their BTCs waiting for the price to sky rocket, again. Sure, history is full of those kinds of stories. NOT!

If this board is any indication, almost nobody is using BTC as a currency. They are sitting on BTCs in much the same way as somebody who is stashing cash, Fiat, in their mattress expecting it to grow.

Why should it grow in value if almost nobody is using it?

The idea that BTC is a currency is a joke.

The problem is that people don't look at everything as money. If people would stop considering fiat as money, and consider everything else in the world as money, their whole attitude would change.

If you trade Bitcoin for anything else in the world, world governments want to force you to give them a little fiat for making the trade. They want you to think that fiat is a special kind of money because the banks control it. So, whatever trading you do, even if it has nothing to do with fiat, governments and banks want to force you to go out and get some fiat and give it to them, simply because you made some kind of a trade.

Bitcoin is or could be a form of money that is entirely outside of the domain of fiat. Yet, almost any trading done using Bitcoin traffics within the domain of fiat at least a little, thereby making it part of the fiat system, sort of. The reason for this is that fiat has become so widespread, that it touches almost everything in the world and in life. And the few things that fiat does NOT touch, are talked about by bankers and governments in ways that suggest that they would want to them into the realm of fiat; and they will get around to bringing them in sooner or later if they can.

There is one method that I know of, that is respected by governments and bankers around the world, that remains outside of the fiat system, if it is used properly. The reason it remains outside of the fiat system is that the bankers want something else to fall back on whenever they need it this way. And they DO use it all the time between and among themselves. Also many rich of the world use it.

You hear about certain people and businesses, that are in some cases among the biggest in the world, yet they pay no income taxes for one reason or another. Many of these people and business use this strategy in everything that they do. This strategy or method is held almost sacred in the eyes of the super wealthy.

What does this have to do with Bitcoin and the price of Bitcoin? If common people wanted to use this strategy method entirely, implementing it in everything they do, while dropping the use of fiat at the same time, and trading using bitcoins for money among themselves, done properly, they would NOT be liable for taxes. As it is right now, without special implementation of some special strategy, if a person does NOT use fiat at all, he just might be able to eliminate fiat taxes from his life.

The point is, when the common people of the world finally figure out what this strategy/method is - I am not going to explain any more about it here; it's in use all over the place in many different forms - and when they implement it among themselves properly, then will be the time that they will TRULY start to throw off the various fiats of the world and become free. When they do this, Bitcoin will start to come into the true value position that it SHOULD hold.

Remember. Neither Bitcoin nor fiat have any inherent, intrinsic value in themselves. Their value is in the fact that people hold them to be valuable. Make Bitcoin valuable by making it the popular "money" of the world... or at least of your little section of the world.

You are wrong for a simple reason: You think it's an easy question.
I don't know, where the Price will go, there are too many likely Scenarios that could happen.

I know everyone likes to talk about how it went from A to B in price, but sadly the price is now at C(down).


Maybe it did get overinflated with China, or maybe all the major hacks/leaks drove prices down. I feel like their isn't any kind of frenzy driving it or much going for it now. It might be possible to gain another 100% in a year, but most things in life don't do that again.

I feel like most people think that the price of BTC has to go up, but in reality you can just have the same BTC trading hands more per day and it would accomplish the same thing.

My major concern and example is, since most major corporations that accept BTC do it through BitPay and all the other things like that, BitPay is getting out of BTC and into fiat ASAP so they can accept more BTC on behalf of their clients. SO they are constantly selling off their BTC to exchanges and wherever else they have to dump it right? That is what the future is right now(until companies hold their BTC themselves for the most part).

So now that we know BitPay has to dump BTC all the time, we get into the same BTC trading hands more frequently than before. If a company is holding BTC themselves they might keep it for weeks or months. BitPay is dumping it probably every day at least a few times(So they can try to get a higher prices during different parts of the day). So that being said, the same 1 full BTC that normally is held for months before it gets traded, is now being traded more frequently. Thus the price will stay stable roughly/go down slightly when they sell, as there is competition to sell(and BitPay has to sell, their business model depends on it IMO).  So that is how I see the current make up of BTC. Big companies and corporations are going to take it over(they already have) and will drive the price down due to too much supply being listed to get into Fiat constantly.

Now this may fix itself if more people accepted BTC and they obviously wouldn't always have to convert into BTC, but I feel like this is where BTC gets the bottleneck that is keeping it down right now.

Just ask yourselves how much of the current Bitcoin price is due to its utility (i.e. its use as currency for buying goods and services) and how much is due to the speculative bubble (i.e. people buying and holding coins only because they are sure price will rise). Think about this and you will get the answer.
Could bitcoin price rise still more in the next few months? Sure, but the more it will rise, the harder it will crash once the bubble will burst.

I am pretty sure, that there were People who said the same, when BTC reached 200 USD for the first time last year or any other significant marks since the beginning of Bitcoins.
According to your Forum-Profil, you are not Long enough in the game to know the rules(if there are any).

Where do you get this from? You're the ONLY person I've ever heard to say this!

Bitcoin price has reached its maximum. There is no way it can grow significantly in the next few years. Actually it could decrease if the speculative bubble deflates (i.e. if the "investors" that are holding bitcoins realize that the price is not going to grow and decide to sell).

BTC is one of the world's

weak hands is what causing the price to stay down, but it's a good thing for those waiting for price to go down to get in

Yes, this is good for BTC developing. we need btc for use not for speculated.

When it was rising in last year, everyone wanted to get in onto the hype train, and it soared and soared. Then it fell down - a lot of these new buyers realized that Bitcoin is not just going to go up all the time and left. That semi-mainstream "to the moon" mentality evaporated, and then the bad news hit to make things worse. So people are now more realistic with Bitcoin's future price - there is less of a belief that it will go into the thousands, after we saw it crash from 1k to below 500. The 1k price point was all hype that a lot of profit-seekers caught onto, and then left as soon as it crashed. Without these people the price doesn't have the fuel to grow, especially as quickly as it did at the end of 2013.

you are right, something has changed in china

    For the bitcoin volume in China, it is true not fake, but one thing you may not know is all chinese trading platform don't need trading fee, they are 0% and you can loan btc to trade even, that means you can sell and buy tens and huandreds one day, don't need to pay any fee. both these will increase the total volume.
    Chinese market is important to bitcoin of course, as at least 60% bitcoin miners are produced in China as i know(we are the one too), almost all my friend heard of bitcoin in the last 6 months(people can see bitcoin news everyday,mostly bad news in these months).
     At last, let me give you a number, bitcointalk.org regiester member is about 320,000 now and Chinese btc fans is more than this number for sure(due to some datas that i cant tell)
     It is no doubt that our goverment will ban it, but for now, here we are all prepare for it, i think finally the paltform will find a way to survive like trasfer to Hongkong, or ...
   

I think that if there is no China market, bitcoin prices will return to rational sleep, growth environment for the development of BTC is also very good, Chinese speculation too serious.

China does matter which is why price is where it is
Customer adoption has been lagging in absence of a killer app
Lots of talent working in btc  now, so patience is indicated

China is still very much in the game. I'd imagine we'd see a devastating drop if most of the Chinese actually sold. The price is holding up pretty good right now, given that about 3600 new coins are mined every day.

People simply shift money to diff coins and diff places