So much for PoS from PoW for ETH | Bitcointalksearch.org

FP91G

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Quote from: joker_josue on December 11, 2022, 04:47:36 AM

Quote from: FP91G on December 11, 2022, 04:13:30 AM

In fact, there are already a lot of these solutions and I saw the first working projects more than 5 years ago. I think it's easy to find on the internet. The amount of heat generated depends on the amount of mining equipment, but this project requires additional costs, which is not always beneficial.

That's right, I think the cost of installing this type of solution is too expensive for the benefit. If it is to heat the water in a swimming pool, it can be used, but I think it would be too expensive for the efficiency generated. I find it more efficient to use this heat to heat the environment/house than to heat water.

You need to calculate how much money you pay for heating the water in the pool, and how many miners you need to get the same result. If you have video cards, then water cooling for each will be expensive, it is cheaper to immerse video cards in a special liquid that will transfer heat to water through a radiator. But I think that 99% of miners will not do this.

arielbit

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Quote from: joker_josue on December 12, 2022, 02:50:15 PM

Quote from: arielbit on December 12, 2022, 11:00:42 AM

Worst case scenario if the water is warm just 30 degrees max performance, your electric heater will not use 3000w of heating power, just 1000w because at low settings the water is already 40 degrees. That's 2000w savings.

It really can make it easier to reduce water heater consumption. But even so, water will hardly come out of close to the miners at 40 degrees, unless the tubes pass really close to the chips.

Following our conversation about plants, I found this news very interesting. Where in the Netherlands a tulip producer in partnership with a bitcoin miner, the greenhouses are heated:
https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/12/12/a-bitcoin-miner-and-tulip-grower-team-up-to-reduce-costs

Wow and the news is just December 12, very fresh.

I guess my water heater theories will remain theories without application/experimentation and computation. Letting it pass directly at chips is so much trouble, cost, and hassle, it was never an option.

At best, savings for bath heater, you still want to install electric heater either way because if you temporarily lost internet then you freeze in the shower LOL, things happen.

joker_josue

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Quote from: arielbit on December 12, 2022, 11:00:42 AM

Worst case scenario if the water is warm just 30 degrees max performance, your electric heater will not use 3000w of heating power, just 1000w because at low settings the water is already 40 degrees. That's 2000w savings.

It really can make it easier to reduce water heater consumption. But even so, water will hardly come out of close to the miners at 40 degrees, unless the tubes pass really close to the chips.

Following our conversation about plants, I found this news very interesting. Where in the Netherlands a tulip producer in partnership with a bitcoin miner, the greenhouses are heated:
https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/12/12/a-bitcoin-miner-and-tulip-grower-team-up-to-reduce-costs

arielbit

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Quote from: joker_josue on December 12, 2022, 03:06:17 AM

Quote from: arielbit on December 11, 2022, 10:39:15 PM

60 degrees?, do you use that hot water alone or mix it with cold? 50 degrees is already hot, for me around 40 degrees is ideal, around body temp.

Anyway, a typical shower heater is around 6000w, maybe miners that pulls at least double like12000w can deliver that heat, it is not efficient(heating-wise) but heat is just a by product, a farm with at least 70-100 cards might do it. Remember the solar solution are just tubes, and it can get as hot as a roof top in a mining room, sometimes it is even hotter than roof tops, also mining rooms deliver near constant heat unlike roof tops.

Size do matter as a storage, that's what water boiler tanks used to do, store hot water before the electric shower heater became the new standard.

Yes, 60 degrees in the tank or at the water heater outlet. Because then the water will run through some more tubes that will cool the water. When you get to the shower, the water should be around 40 degrees.

I am not questioning the power of the miners, capable of heating water, what I am saying is that in order to heat the water effectively, the water had to pass very close to the chips. That's where the heat is. If they pass 20 or 30 centimeters away, they will only catch the air emitted by the miner, who will walk at around 40 degrees. Which will be insufficient to heat water effectively.

Bigger tubes then let the water rotate through the piping that would reduce the temp(60-40), then those pipes will eventually heat up and then they won't absorb much of the heat before bathing, those pipes should be plastic(not a very good conductor of heat) but still the pipes beside the miners are metal.

Worst case scenario if the water is warm just 30 degrees max performance, your electric heater will not use 3000w of heating power, just 1000w because at low settings the water is already 40 degrees. That's 2000w savings.

joker_josue

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Quote from: arielbit on December 11, 2022, 10:39:15 PM

60 degrees?, do you use that hot water alone or mix it with cold? 50 degrees is already hot, for me around 40 degrees is ideal, around body temp.

Anyway, a typical shower heater is around 6000w, maybe miners that pulls at least double like12000w can deliver that heat, it is not efficient(heating-wise) but heat is just a by product, a farm with at least 70-100 cards might do it. Remember the solar solution are just tubes, and it can get as hot as a roof top in a mining room, sometimes it is even hotter than roof tops, also mining rooms deliver near constant heat unlike roof tops.

Size do matter as a storage, that's what water boiler tanks used to do, store hot water before the electric shower heater became the new standard.

Yes, 60 degrees in the tank or at the water heater outlet. Because then the water will run through some more tubes that will cool the water. When you get to the shower, the water should be around 40 degrees.

I am not questioning the power of the miners, capable of heating water, what I am saying is that in order to heat the water effectively, the water had to pass very close to the chips. That's where the heat is. If they pass 20 or 30 centimeters away, they will only catch the air emitted by the miner, who will walk at around 40 degrees. Which will be insufficient to heat water effectively.

arielbit

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Quote from: joker_josue on December 11, 2022, 07:49:40 PM

Quote from: arielbit on December 11, 2022, 08:22:17 AM

Change parameters, 2 or 3 inch pipe and reduce flow rate. This will make more storage(pipe size), and the flow rate will make the water more hot, reduce the pipe at the exit to maybe 1/4 inch and use a smaller pump.

Maybe when the mining racks are placed besides the tubes then it will make the pipes hotter.

Now, you said it will generate lower heat than most heater, maybe not hot enough to kill plants if you go with the grow lights/indoor garden application.

Heating water is one thing, heating the environment is another.

It is not the size of the tubes or their length that will make the difference. It may help to raise the temperature a bit, but you need to receive more than 60 degrees of temperature to get hot water for a bath. Unless it's all next to each other. Even so, the cold water entering the plumbing would not heat up enough to be useful in a bath.

I don't know if you know, but for example, the evacuated tube solar collectors, used to heat water using the energy of the sun, need to work almost close to 100 degrees, to be able to heat the water that passes through the pipe so that it stays with a few 60 degrees.

Already heating the environment is all easier. Tropic plants live in temperatures around 30~40 degrees, this is the normal temperature generated by miners. You just have to wait to heat the space to that temperature, which it will naturally maintain.

60 degrees?, do you use that hot water alone or mix it with cold? 50 degrees is already hot, for me around 40 degrees is ideal, around body temp.

Anyway, a typical shower heater is around 6000w, maybe miners that pulls at least double like12000w can deliver that heat, it is not efficient(heating-wise) but heat is just a by product, a farm with at least 70-100 cards might do it. Remember the solar solution are just tubes, and it can get as hot as a roof top in a mining room, sometimes it is even hotter than roof tops, also mining rooms deliver near constant heat unlike roof tops.

Size do matter as a storage, that's what water boiler tanks used to do, store hot water before the electric shower heater became the new standard.

joker_josue

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Quote from: arielbit on December 11, 2022, 08:22:17 AM

Change parameters, 2 or 3 inch pipe and reduce flow rate. This will make more storage(pipe size), and the flow rate will make the water more hot, reduce the pipe at the exit to maybe 1/4 inch and use a smaller pump.

Maybe when the mining racks are placed besides the tubes then it will make the pipes hotter.

Now, you said it will generate lower heat than most heater, maybe not hot enough to kill plants if you go with the grow lights/indoor garden application.

Heating water is one thing, heating the environment is another.

It is not the size of the tubes or their length that will make the difference. It may help to raise the temperature a bit, but you need to receive more than 60 degrees of temperature to get hot water for a bath. Unless it's all next to each other. Even so, the cold water entering the plumbing would not heat up enough to be useful in a bath.

I don't know if you know, but for example, the evacuated tube solar collectors, used to heat water using the energy of the sun, need to work almost close to 100 degrees, to be able to heat the water that passes through the pipe so that it stays with a few 60 degrees.

Already heating the environment is all easier. Tropic plants live in temperatures around 30~40 degrees, this is the normal temperature generated by miners. You just have to wait to heat the space to that temperature, which it will naturally maintain.

arielbit

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Quote from: joker_josue on December 11, 2022, 05:44:00 AM

Quote from: arielbit on December 11, 2022, 05:24:28 AM

You both lack imagination LOL,

Pick a wall

Take a 1inch lead pipe make, a "U" where you reach the otherside of the wall and the return to the other side, then a "U" again...left-right-right-left.. Until the top to bottom of the wall is filled with lead pipe.(or any metal pipe, copper if you can).

Then make a loop with water like a car radiator but here the radiator absorbs heat from the room, more like a huge heatsink.

If you touch a cement wall of a mining room it is uncomfortably warm, that is what those metal pipes are going to absorb, law of thermodynamics will make the heat transfer more from the environment to the pipe because the pipe is colder and the water inside transports heat to the other side of the wall where the heat is needed, or we can also say the colder room transfers cold thru the metal pipes to the hotter room.

But do you think that the heat generated will be enough to heat water? If the water is still, yes, but if it is flowing, no.
Don't forget that the miners' 60 degrees temperature is next to the chips and not in the surrounding air. Each miner should release about 30~40 degrees into the air. Therefore, unless the tubes pass next to the chips, the generated air will hardly be enough to significantly heat water. Water can be warm, but not hot for a good bath.

EDIT:
Actually a car radiator has the same method, but the water pipes pass right next to the engine, which is working at more than 80 degrees.

EDIT 2:
Take, for example, the water heater for the bath. It has to be heated to 40~50 degrees, so that when you get to the shower, you have the ideal temperature for a good shower. And we are talking about direct flame in the tube. If the air in the room is at that temperature, it hardly heats water.

Change parameters, 2 or 3 inch pipe and reduce flow rate. This will make more storage(pipe size), and the flow rate will make the water more hot, reduce the pipe at the exit to maybe 1/4 inch and use a smaller pump.

Maybe when the mining racks are placed besides the tubes then it will make the pipes hotter.

Now, you said it will generate lower heat than most heater, maybe not hot enough to kill plants if you go with the grow lights/indoor garden application.

joker_josue

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**In BTC since 2013**

Quote from: arielbit on December 11, 2022, 05:24:28 AM

You both lack imagination LOL,

Pick a wall

Take a 1inch lead pipe make, a "U" where you reach the otherside of the wall and the return to the other side, then a "U" again...left-right-right-left.. Until the top to bottom of the wall is filled with lead pipe.(or any metal pipe, copper if you can).

Then make a loop with water like a car radiator but here the radiator absorbs heat from the room, more like a huge heatsink.

If you touch a cement wall of a mining room it is uncomfortably warm, that is what those metal pipes are going to absorb, law of thermodynamics will make the heat transfer more from the environment to the pipe because the pipe is colder and the water inside transports heat to the other side of the wall where the heat is needed, or we can also say the colder room transfers cold thru the metal pipes to the hotter room.

But do you think that the heat generated will be enough to heat water? If the water is still, yes, but if it is flowing, no.
Don't forget that the miners' 60 degrees temperature is next to the chips and not in the surrounding air. Each miner should release about 30~40 degrees into the air. Therefore, unless the tubes pass next to the chips, the generated air will hardly be enough to significantly heat water. Water can be warm, but not hot for a good bath.

EDIT:
Actually a car radiator has the same method, but the water pipes pass right next to the engine, which is working at more than 80 degrees.

EDIT 2:
Take, for example, the water heater for the bath. It has to be heated to 40~50 degrees, so that when you get to the shower, you have the ideal temperature for a good shower. And we are talking about direct flame in the tube. If the air in the room is at that temperature, it hardly heats water.

arielbit

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Quote from: joker_josue on December 11, 2022, 04:47:36 AM

Quote from: FP91G on December 11, 2022, 04:13:30 AM

In fact, there are already a lot of these solutions and I saw the first working projects more than 5 years ago. I think it's easy to find on the internet. The amount of heat generated depends on the amount of mining equipment, but this project requires additional costs, which is not always beneficial.

That's right, I think the cost of installing this type of solution is too expensive for the benefit. If it is to heat the water in a swimming pool, it can be used, but I think it would be too expensive for the efficiency generated. I find it more efficient to use this heat to heat the environment/house than to heat water.

You both lack imagination LOL,

Pick a wall

Take a 1inch lead pipe make, a "U" where you reach the otherside of the wall and the return to the other side, then a "U" again...left-right-right-left.. Until the top to bottom of the wall is filled with lead pipe.(or any metal pipe, copper if you can).

Then make a loop with water like a car radiator but here the radiator absorbs heat from the room, more like a huge heatsink.

If you touch a cement wall of a mining room it is uncomfortably warm, that is what those metal pipes are going to absorb, law of thermodynamics will make the heat transfer more from the environment to the pipe because the pipe is colder and the water inside transports heat to the other side of the wall where the heat is needed, or we can also say the colder room transfers cold thru the metal pipes to the hotter room.

joker_josue

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Quote from: FP91G on December 11, 2022, 04:13:30 AM

In fact, there are already a lot of these solutions and I saw the first working projects more than 5 years ago. I think it's easy to find on the internet. The amount of heat generated depends on the amount of mining equipment, but this project requires additional costs, which is not always beneficial.

That's right, I think the cost of installing this type of solution is too expensive for the benefit. If it is to heat the water in a swimming pool, it can be used, but I think it would be too expensive for the efficiency generated. I find it more efficient to use this heat to heat the environment/house than to heat water.

FP91G

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Activity: 1834

Merit: 1136

Quote from: joker_josue on December 10, 2022, 12:53:38 PM

Quote from: FP91G on December 10, 2022, 08:27:00 AM

The easiest way to use the heat from mining is for space heating or water heating. This will be a very simple and reliable system that does not require much knowledge from the operating personnel. And the more complex and expensive the system, the more problems in the future.

Water heating?
I don't see how the heat from mining will be enough to heat water. Only if it's on a small scale.

Do you know of any concrete reports about this that you can share?

In fact, there are already a lot of these solutions and I saw the first working projects more than 5 years ago. I think it's easy to find on the internet. The amount of heat generated depends on the amount of mining equipment, but this project requires additional costs, which is not always beneficial.

joker_josue

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Quote from: JayDDee on December 10, 2022, 03:19:46 PM

It's hard to find a balance when there are requirements at both ends. You want effective cooling of the equipment and useful heat byproduct.
You can usually only do one effectively. The heat byproduct can be used as a secondary heat source. One example is a drone water tank
that warms water before going into the heated tank. Most drone tanks just use ambient heat to warm the ground water but a little extra
boost from mining waste heat can't hurt. An aquarium or swimming pool might also be a good use.

Of course, we can't want to take full advantage of two things. Either we have one or the other, both at the same time is difficult.

Now, I have some doubts about the efficiency of mining to heat water, especially in small miners.
Large mining centers, yes the heat generated could be useful for water heating.

JayDDee

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Quote from: joker_josue on December 10, 2022, 12:53:38 PM

Quote from: FP91G on December 10, 2022, 08:27:00 AM

The easiest way to use the heat from mining is for space heating or water heating. This will be a very simple and reliable system that does not require much knowledge from the operating personnel. And the more complex and expensive the system, the more problems in the future.

Water heating?
I don't see how the heat from mining will be enough to heat water. Only if it's on a small scale.

Do you know of any concrete reports about this that you can share?

It's hard to find a balance when there are requirements at both ends. You want effective cooling of the equipment and useful heat byproduct.
You can usually only do one effectively. The heat byproduct can be used as a secondary heat source. One example is a drone water tank
that warms water before going into the heated tank. Most drone tanks just use ambient heat to warm the ground water but a little extra
boost from mining waste heat can't hurt. An aquarium or swimming pool might also be a good use.

joker_josue

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Quote from: FP91G on December 10, 2022, 08:27:00 AM

The easiest way to use the heat from mining is for space heating or water heating. This will be a very simple and reliable system that does not require much knowledge from the operating personnel. And the more complex and expensive the system, the more problems in the future.

Water heating?
I don't see how the heat from mining will be enough to heat water. Only if it's on a small scale.

Do you know of any concrete reports about this that you can share?

FP91G

legendary

Activity: 1834

Merit: 1136

Quote from: halalsolutions on December 09, 2022, 02:53:26 AM

And here we are ; )
Based on the ARMedOne we are going to offer IT-Containers and small IT-Tresors
The heat created inside has to be taken out. By having the hardware in its own „atmosphere“ but taking heat out we go around the humidity problem.

The easiest way to use the heat from mining is for space heating or water heating. This will be a very simple and reliable system that does not require much knowledge from the operating personnel. And the more complex and expensive the system, the more problems in the future.

arielbit

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Quote from: joker_josue on December 09, 2022, 02:56:57 AM

Quote from: JayDDee on December 08, 2022, 06:29:43 PM

When I was in school a classmate's parents ran a flower shop and he, being a computer geek, convinced them to sell PCs as well.
But plants like high humidity, computers don't. It's good to try to use the heat from mining in a useful way but mining in a hothouse
is not a good idea. The issue with growing in winter is the lack of sunlight so grow lights are needed and they also produce heat.

Any equipment that generates heat (electric) does not like humidity. It is true that there are equipment that are prepared for this type of scenario, obviously.
In this type of case, which we are talking about here, the mining equipment would have to be in a separate room from the plants, but with the generated heat directed towards the plant room. But I agree that the idea will not be the most efficient for effective plant production.

But I remember a few years ago, having read a news story about a mining farm that consumed energy clandestinely, which was discovered by the police, because the police thought that the facilities were used for the production of drugs, due to the heat generated and consumed energy.

If you search the internet, there are business in tropical countries where they grew in containers non tropical plants with AC, AC removes humidity and can dry plants but they did it. Now the inverted version of this is "heating".

I bet humidity can be introduced, there are humidifier appliances BTW, misting can also increase humidity, and yes you grew them at a separate room where the heat eminates from the mining room.

They grew them in the heart of the city, customers are restaurants.

The business was feasible because the logistics of transporting those plants from far away cost more, besides the quality and freshness of plants grown in a very close location is the selling point.

joker_josue

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Quote from: JayDDee on December 08, 2022, 06:29:43 PM

When I was in school a classmate's parents ran a flower shop and he, being a computer geek, convinced them to sell PCs as well.
But plants like high humidity, computers don't. It's good to try to use the heat from mining in a useful way but mining in a hothouse
is not a good idea. The issue with growing in winter is the lack of sunlight so grow lights are needed and they also produce heat.

Any equipment that generates heat (electric) does not like humidity. It is true that there are equipment that are prepared for this type of scenario, obviously.
In this type of case, which we are talking about here, the mining equipment would have to be in a separate room from the plants, but with the generated heat directed towards the plant room. But I agree that the idea will not be the most efficient for effective plant production.

But I remember a few years ago, having read a news story about a mining farm that consumed energy clandestinely, which was discovered by the police, because the police thought that the facilities were used for the production of drugs, due to the heat generated and consumed energy.

halalsolutions

copper member

Activity: 79

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And here we are ; )
Based on the ARMedOne we are going to offer IT-Containers and small IT-Tresors
The heat created inside has to be taken out. By having the hardware in its own „atmosphere“ but taking heat out we go around the humidity problem.

JayDDee

full member

Activity: 1424

Merit: 225

Quote from: joker_josue on December 08, 2022, 06:04:41 PM

Quote from: arielbit on December 08, 2022, 02:17:03 PM

If your temp becomes an ideal growing temp to some plant that is expensive there because you are in a cold climate or because the plant is grown in hotter season, maybe it is feasible to become a gpu farmer and an exotic/off season plant farmer at the same time, with a niche market for hotels and expensive restaurants.

You won't worry anymore with bear markets if you can pull that off LOL

Despite being funny, the idea itself is not entirely unreasonable.
Has any miner thought of that and is selling tropical plants as extra income? Roll Eyes

If there is someone doing this, I would like to know its history, it must be very interesting.

When I was in school a classmate's parents ran a flower shop and he, being a computer geek, convinced them to sell PCs as well.
But plants like high humidity, computers don't. It's good to try to use the heat from mining in a useful way but mining in a hothouse
is not a good idea. The issue with growing in winter is the lack of sunlight so grow lights are needed and they also produce heat.

Topic: So much for PoS from PoW for ETH (Read 945 times)