So now that Pirate is closing BTCST...

smoothie

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Quote from: drakahn on August 18, 2012, 02:56:07 PM

Quote from: smoothie on August 18, 2012, 02:52:38 PM

Quote from: Coinoisseur on August 18, 2012, 02:50:04 AM

Not disagreeing with your assessment, just pointing out how BTC could be "tied up". If he has been loaning, regardless of what the loans are for, then he'll be relying on the debtors repaying.

If he was lending to other people whether because they were shorting BTC or some other reason, it's possible they would be paying him a high enough interest to payout the way he has been. Possible but I don't think it likely, myself.

Will be interesting if he disappears with most of the BTC, will people cry all over the forum despite all the warnings given and all the posts saying "don't cry to us if you lose it all"?

If he does run I will be the first to start laughing. Cheesy

And when he doesn't I will.

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the closest to pirate get their funds back but not all...that would make things even more interesting.....and I'll still be laughing.

"when"..........yeah keep telling yourself that as if you know the future. At least I use the word "if".

finway

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Simplest answer is the BEST answer:

ponzi.

drakahn

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Quote from: smoothie on August 18, 2012, 02:52:38 PM

Quote from: Coinoisseur on August 18, 2012, 02:50:04 AM

Not disagreeing with your assessment, just pointing out how BTC could be "tied up". If he has been loaning, regardless of what the loans are for, then he'll be relying on the debtors repaying.

If he was lending to other people whether because they were shorting BTC or some other reason, it's possible they would be paying him a high enough interest to payout the way he has been. Possible but I don't think it likely, myself.

Will be interesting if he disappears with most of the BTC, will people cry all over the forum despite all the warnings given and all the posts saying "don't cry to us if you lose it all"?

If he does run I will be the first to start laughing. Cheesy

And when he doesn't I will.

smoothie

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Quote from: Coinoisseur on August 18, 2012, 02:50:04 AM

Not disagreeing with your assessment, just pointing out how BTC could be "tied up". If he has been loaning, regardless of what the loans are for, then he'll be relying on the debtors repaying.

If he was lending to other people whether because they were shorting BTC or some other reason, it's possible they would be paying him a high enough interest to payout the way he has been. Possible but I don't think it likely, myself.

Will be interesting if he disappears with most of the BTC, will people cry all over the forum despite all the warnings given and all the posts saying "don't cry to us if you lose it all"?

If he does run I will be the first to start laughing. Cheesy

Coinoisseur

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Not disagreeing with your assessment, just pointing out how BTC could be "tied up". If he has been loaning, regardless of what the loans are for, then he'll be relying on the debtors repaying.

If he was lending to other people whether because they were shorting BTC or some other reason, it's possible they would be paying him a high enough interest to payout the way he has been. Possible but I don't think it likely, myself.

Will be interesting if he disappears with most of the BTC, will people cry all over the forum despite all the warnings given and all the posts saying "don't cry to us if you lose it all"?

smoothie

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Quote from: Coinoisseur on August 18, 2012, 01:00:30 AM

If he was lending or shorting then the BTC would be "tied up" something you professed to find odd, smoothie. If it's lending then recalling his loans would be the tied up period. Shorting, if he was shorting then he has to buy BTC back which is no different then having sold the BTC outright. However if he was acting as the source of BTC for others to short with, then that's a derivative of loaning so the same "tied up" situation as regular lending.

Okay scenario:

Investors give pirate btc

Pirate promises to pay 7% weekly interest.

Pirate gives "clients" btc for USD (lower prices than now)

Clients short btc by selling it on the market hoping to buy it back cheaper to repay pirate.

But since price hasn't gone down in recent months his "clients" will have to buy the btc back at a higher price assuming they sold short.

Now if the "clients" can't buy back Y x 100k btc because they dont have enough fiat..

It's not the "clients" that are going to get the heat for the non-return of investors' btc, but pirate.

Pirate has two options:

1. Buy btc on the market at higher prices

2. Mine them

Both options don't really fair well for him getting all 500k btc in tact by said deadline (week or two, whatever).

**Note: This whole scenario also doesn't really work well in how pirate is able to "make" 7+% each week. Unless his "clients" were dumb enough to pay +7% premium on each bitcoin when buying from pirate, which is retarded lol.

EDIT: That word shorting is another word for selling in the context you used it in. And if that is true that he shorted bitcoins lent to him then he is fucked because he only has two options above.

Coinoisseur

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If he was lending or shorting then the BTC would be "tied up" something you professed to find odd, smoothie. If it's lending then recalling his loans would be the tied up period. Shorting, if he was shorting then he has to buy BTC back which is no different then having sold the BTC outright. However if he was acting as the source of BTC for others to short with, then that's a derivative of loaning so the same "tied up" situation as regular lending.

smoothie

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Quote from: imsaguy on August 18, 2012, 12:10:03 AM

Quote from: smoothie on August 18, 2012, 12:06:50 AM

Quote from: imsaguy on August 17, 2012, 11:49:32 PM

Quote from: smoothie on August 17, 2012, 11:44:51 PM

What does that mean?

Two things you can do with bitcoins........sell them or trade them.

"tied" up? You mean like they bought it from him?

If they are "tied" up with clients then he needs to buy them from them at a higher price than they paid for it. Which means he will be short on USD that they gave him for the bitcoins in the first place.

Ok, first off.. selling is trading. So you only listed one thing. Second, there are other things you can do with them.

Like what?

Hoard?

Exchange for fiat?

Exchange for alt-coins?

Shorting, lending, etc

Both still trading......

Shorting is borrowing and selling....

Lending is borrowing and paying interest....

imsaguy

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Quote from: smoothie on August 18, 2012, 12:06:50 AM

Quote from: imsaguy on August 17, 2012, 11:49:32 PM

Quote from: smoothie on August 17, 2012, 11:44:51 PM

What does that mean?

Two things you can do with bitcoins........sell them or trade them.

"tied" up? You mean like they bought it from him?

If they are "tied" up with clients then he needs to buy them from them at a higher price than they paid for it. Which means he will be short on USD that they gave him for the bitcoins in the first place.

Ok, first off.. selling is trading. So you only listed one thing. Second, there are other things you can do with them.

Like what?

Hoard?

Exchange for fiat?

Exchange for alt-coins?

Shorting, lending, etc

smoothie

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Quote from: imsaguy on August 17, 2012, 11:49:32 PM

Quote from: smoothie on August 17, 2012, 11:44:51 PM

What does that mean?

Two things you can do with bitcoins........sell them or trade them.

"tied" up? You mean like they bought it from him?

If they are "tied" up with clients then he needs to buy them from them at a higher price than they paid for it. Which means he will be short on USD that they gave him for the bitcoins in the first place.

Ok, first off.. selling is trading. So you only listed one thing. Second, there are other things you can do with them.

Like what?

Hoard?

Exchange for fiat?

Exchange for alt-coins?

imsaguy

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Quote from: smoothie on August 17, 2012, 11:44:51 PM

What does that mean?

Two things you can do with bitcoins........sell them or trade them.

"tied" up? You mean like they bought it from him?

If they are "tied" up with clients then he needs to buy them from them at a higher price than they paid for it. Which means he will be short on USD that they gave him for the bitcoins in the first place.

Ok, first off.. selling is trading. So you only listed one thing. Second, there are other things you can do with them.

smoothie

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Quote from: notme on August 17, 2012, 11:22:33 PM

Quote from: smoothie on August 17, 2012, 11:20:08 PM

Quote from: imsaguy on August 17, 2012, 06:37:00 PM

Quote from: silverbox on August 17, 2012, 05:59:36 PM

So I estimate the redemptions that caused pirate to close up to be around 30-50k btc..

So he can't come up with 30-50k btc today.

But on Monday he'll have ~500k btc all ready to distribute to the depositors? Huh

He has said it will probably take about 2 weeks to totally unwind.

Bullshit...it shouldn't take more than a week to get all of the investors their btc if he has it.

Otherwise he is short btc and needs to mine it or buy it on the open market.

Or he has it tied up with his clients, like he said.

What does that mean?

Two things you can do with bitcoins........sell them or trade them.

"tied" up? You mean like they bought it from him?

If they are "tied" up with clients then he needs to buy them from them at a higher price than they paid for it. Which means he will be short on USD that they gave him for the bitcoins in the first place.

Bitcoin Oz

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Wat

Quote from: smoothie on August 17, 2012, 11:20:08 PM

Quote from: imsaguy on August 17, 2012, 06:37:00 PM

Quote from: silverbox on August 17, 2012, 05:59:36 PM

So I estimate the redemptions that caused pirate to close up to be around 30-50k btc..

So he can't come up with 30-50k btc today.

But on Monday he'll have ~500k btc all ready to distribute to the depositors? Huh

He has said it will probably take about 2 weeks to totally unwind.

Bullshit...it shouldn't take more than a week to get all of the investors their btc if he has it.

Otherwise he is short btc and needs to mine it or buy it on the open market.

It would depend what he was using the coins for. Maybe once it unwinds we will find out what he was doing when he sells the book for btc Cheesy

notme

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Quote from: smoothie on August 17, 2012, 11:20:08 PM

Quote from: imsaguy on August 17, 2012, 06:37:00 PM

Quote from: silverbox on August 17, 2012, 05:59:36 PM

So I estimate the redemptions that caused pirate to close up to be around 30-50k btc..

So he can't come up with 30-50k btc today.

But on Monday he'll have ~500k btc all ready to distribute to the depositors? Huh

He has said it will probably take about 2 weeks to totally unwind.

Bullshit...it shouldn't take more than a week to get all of the investors their btc if he has it.

Otherwise he is short btc and needs to mine it or buy it on the open market.

Or he has it tied up with his clients, like he said.

smoothie

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Quote from: imsaguy on August 17, 2012, 06:37:00 PM

Quote from: silverbox on August 17, 2012, 05:59:36 PM

So I estimate the redemptions that caused pirate to close up to be around 30-50k btc..

So he can't come up with 30-50k btc today.

But on Monday he'll have ~500k btc all ready to distribute to the depositors? Huh

He has said it will probably take about 2 weeks to totally unwind.

Bullshit...it shouldn't take more than a week to get all of the investors their btc if he has it.

Otherwise he is short btc and needs to mine it or buy it on the open market.

dust

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Quote from: dust on August 17, 2012, 05:11:28 PM

If pirate is legit and has some extra coins, he should be buying every single pass through selling under face value. Of course, this hasn't happened...

Someone just bought 428 TYGRR.BOND-P at 0.9795. Pirate, is that you?

repentance

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Quote from: silverfuture on August 17, 2012, 04:18:44 PM

Great! now maybe there will be funding opportunities for real businesses that can't promise such a high return.

It's a different target market. pirate's investors will simply look elsewhere for rapid, high returns. The HYIPs with all their attendant risk were attractive when BTC price was relatively stable, but now that it's volatile again a lot of people will return to speculating.

imsaguy

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Quote from: silverbox on August 17, 2012, 05:59:36 PM

So I estimate the redemptions that caused pirate to close up to be around 30-50k btc..

So he can't come up with 30-50k btc today.

But on Monday he'll have ~500k btc all ready to distribute to the depositors? Huh