Topic: So what is an easy way to have LN for a miner. And others. (Read 470 times)
Fees dropped a lot but I can still use nicehash or kraken if needed.
Bluewallet (the custodial version of lightning network that they used to have), Breez (non-custodial - but had my channel force closed), and Phoenix (non-custodial and I have been using it since February/March 2023 - but have have probably ONLY done fewer than 20 transactions with it).
easiest way for you to know that you are the owner of the funds vs using a custodian. is this
if YOU create a LN key and YOU fund that key to then have a channel of said balance, the funds are in your control
if you requested a router move LN msat balance to a channel via routing, then your channel partner is assigning IOU balance inbound to you, on their control of their funds, which they are reciprocally getting credited by their channel partner and so on and so on
if they are also offering "instant open" channels be aware. funding locks are NEVER instant
.. anyways time for christmas.
And I am not trying to suggest you run a node or do anything more than just use the lightning network in the way best for you. I believe fees are going to follow a trajectory much like the price and hashrate has. So doing mining as you do getting used to layer 2 strategies is going to become more and more important.
I apologize for the offtopic, but do you know of any way to run node LN on Windows? I've been looking and haven't found anything that I find interesting.https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/releases <-- Don't trust my links verify for yourself.
You would need that and a full BTC node.
With everything figure a full 1TB free on a drive before you start.
Keep in mind you will also need 24/7 uptime for the PC and your internet connection.
And coffee lots of coffee to keep you up while getting it to work.
-Dave
1) I have not set up a node either, but I thought that a potentially good option for running a node on a PC would be the DIY Start9.
https://docs.start9.com/0.3.5.x/diy/diy-x86
The DIY Start9 apparently runs on Linux, Windows or MacOS...
@cAPSLOCK Have you run one of these? or some variation of it? on your hardware or on their hardware?
2) @Phillip1957. In your several posts starting out this thread, there are several times that you are using the terms custodial versus non-custodial incorrectly.
I don't like those custodial/non-custodial terms either and I find them confusing (which is also probably the case with an overwhelming number of bitcoin newbies - and you are not even a newbie and you are not using the terms correctly.... and I am not even blaming you for that because they are confusing).
In any event, in order to lessen some of the ambiguity, I tend to use the term third-party custodial (to refer to custodial) and Self-custodial to refer to non-custodial.. We likely know that another ambiguous term that has been coming up is hosted versus unhosted wallets, in order to try to normalize third party custodial as if self-custody (or non-custodial or unhosted) was a bad thing.. and the fact of the matter is that the use of confusing terms is likely an attack vector on bitcoin and an attack on ideas of self-custodial, which everyone has rights to be able to custody his own money, information and value and to have privacy over these kinds of matters..
3) This website strives to categorize and describe several lightning network wallets in terms of custodial and non-custodial, and I personally have ONLY used Cash App (Custodial), Bluewallet (the custodial version of lightning network that they used to have), Breez (non-custodial - but had my channel force closed), and Phoenix (non-custodial and I have been using it since February/March 2023 - but have probably ONLY done fewer than 20 transactions with it).
I personally believe that it is not too much work to set up something like a Phoenix wallet, and you can store the 12 words, and you can also do a cloud backup, but I don't do that. The set up fees are a bit higher right now, and last week, they were like 30k to 50k satoshis because of onchain fees. They are now coming down to between 15k and 25k satoshis in the last few days, and maybe will be able to set up for less than 10k satoshis in the near future? Once the channel is open, then if you are using it every month, you will probably find it easier to use, and less concerns about using the (third-party) custodial services that you are currently exploring with nice hash, kraken and others that you are looking into. I have not tried to set up any Electrum wallet (or to use lighting network in that way), so I don't have that level of experience, so far... but like you, I am working on various ways to try to increase my exposure to various lightning network applications/wallets and to try to learn more about ways that I might be able to use them to have more options during sometimes uncertain fee times that still seems to be our current on-chain situation.
The biggest problem is coffee, I don't drink coffee. 
Could it be tea, if it's winter?
Could it be tea, if it's winter?
Only if it's this tea: https://www.republicoftea.com/breakfast-black-hicaf-natural-energy-tea-bags/p/v20145/
I don't think I need that much, I naturally don't sleep much, so it's not difficult to stay awake for a few hours trying to configure the LN monster!
My problem is time, I have less and less time for this type of adventure.
The biggest problem is coffee, I don't drink coffee.
Could it be tea, if it's winter?
Could it be tea, if it's winter?
Only if it's this tea: https://www.republicoftea.com/breakfast-black-hicaf-natural-energy-tea-bags/p/v20145/
...
3. Wallet of Satoshi. It is custodial, but it is a great way to get used to doing lightning to and from your phone and gives you a lightning address. Mine is [email protected]. Sending to and from a lightning address is as easy as using email....
3. Wallet of Satoshi. It is custodial, but it is a great way to get used to doing lightning to and from your phone and gives you a lightning address. Mine is [email protected]. Sending to and from a lightning address is as easy as using email....
Wallet of Satoshi is no longer available in the USA through either Google or Apple. Although it still works in the USA for now they could in theory shutdown all access to it. And since there is no way to recover anything since it is 100% custodial I would not recommend it. Witch is kind of sad since I have been recommending it and using it for a while. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/wallet-of-satoshi-vanishes-from-apple-and-googles-us-app-stores-5475337
-Dave
Yeah I fucked around with an LN node a year ago and said no no no.
I will be busy for holidays. But I will open my electrum wallet and try to get that working with LN.
That way I would have the ideal method for me.
Mine to nicehash send:
LN to kraken if I want cash
LN to electrum if I want to hodl
I will be busy for holidays. But I will open my electrum wallet and try to get that working with LN.
That way I would have the ideal method for me.
Mine to nicehash send:
LN to kraken if I want cash
LN to electrum if I want to hodl
Totally agree with the LN node part. You need to enjoy hitting yourself in the head with a brick if you want to run a production class node. It's not that it is impossible, it's just a serious endeavor. Like mining, really.
But luckily you can run a non custodial lightning wallet as an end user with about the same difficulty as using a Bitcoin wallet. (And custodial wallets are almost easier than a regular bitcoin wallet...)
I would only caution, that though I agree Electrum is a fantastic bitcoin wallet, the last time I looked at it's lightning implementation it was a lot trickier and a bit kludgy compared to Breez as well as a few others. But I will spin up lightning in electrum again in a recent release to see if they have smoothed it out yet. Maybe they have.
LND has pre-compiled windows binaries.
https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/releases <-- Don't trust my links verify for yourself.
You would need that and a full BTC node.
With everything figure a full 1TB free on a drive before you start.
Keep in mind you will also need 24/7 uptime for the PC and your internet connection.
And coffee lots of coffee to keep you up while getting it to work.
-Dave
https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/releases <-- Don't trust my links verify for yourself.
You would need that and a full BTC node.
With everything figure a full 1TB free on a drive before you start.
Keep in mind you will also need 24/7 uptime for the PC and your internet connection.
And coffee lots of coffee to keep you up while getting it to work.
-Dave
Dave answered your question exactly as I would have, down to the coffee.
Thanks for the answer.
Disk space and leaving the PC on 24 hours a day is not a problem for me, these are things I already do.
The biggest problem is coffee, I don't drink coffee.
Could it be tea, if it's winter?
Yes, I already realize that this is a small headache, but I will investigate and see what I can do. Thank you for the tips.
At dkbit98 too hard or difficult.
I want this to be easy peasy.
What do you mean to hard or difficult?!I want this to be easy peasy.
All you need is to install and open Breeze wallet... if that is to hard for you than I don't know what more to say, it's easier than opening new accounts on any exchange you mentioned
Backup is encrypted and exported to cloud or your own personal server... very simple.
Yeah I fucked around with an LN node a year ago and said no no no.
I will be busy for holidays. But I will open my electrum wallet and try to get that working with LN.
That way I would have the ideal method for me.
Mine to nicehash send:
LN to kraken if I want cash
LN to electrum if I want to hodl
I will be busy for holidays. But I will open my electrum wallet and try to get that working with LN.
That way I would have the ideal method for me.
Mine to nicehash send:
LN to kraken if I want cash
LN to electrum if I want to hodl
And I am not trying to suggest you run a node or do anything more than just use the lightning network in the way best for you. I believe fees are going to follow a trajectory much like the price and hashrate has. So doing mining as you do getting used to layer 2 strategies is going to become more and more important.
I apologize for the offtopic, but do you know of any way to run node LN on Windows? I've been looking and haven't found anything that I find interesting.
Dave answered your question exactly as I would have, down to the coffee.
And I am not trying to suggest you run a node or do anything more than just use the lightning network in the way best for you. I believe fees are going to follow a trajectory much like the price and hashrate has. So doing mining as you do getting used to layer 2 strategies is going to become more and more important.
I apologize for the offtopic, but do you know of any way to run node LN on Windows? I've been looking and haven't found anything that I find interesting.
LND has pre-compiled windows binaries.
https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/releases <-- Don't trust my links verify for yourself.
You would need that and a full BTC node.
With everything figure a full 1TB free on a drive before you start.
Keep in mind you will also need 24/7 uptime for the PC and your internet connection.
And coffee lots of coffee to keep you up while getting it to work.
-Dave
l have mentioned Breez. You do not have to go to the trouble of running a node (though breez actually does run one on your phone). Breez works well, and is at least as easy as the things you have done so far. You just have to let it update to the network, then you can send it lightning transactions ad YOU actually hold the sats.
really??
Quote from: https://breez.technology/mobile/
No channel management: zero-conf channels are created on the fly
Breez seamlessly opens channels as needed on-the-fly. Here's how it works:
When the recipient wants to receive a payment but lacks inbound capacity, their Breez app recognizes the lack and issues two invoices using the same preimage: one invoice is issued to the sender (requesting a payment) and a second is issued to the Breez LSP. The amount of the second invoice equals the amount requested from the payer minus a miniscule service fee to Breez for opening the channel the recipient requires. The invoice sent to the sender includes routing instructions, indicating a pseudo-channel between the recipient and the Breez node.
When the sender pays the invoice they received from the recipient, the Breez node intercepts the payment and holds it.
The Breez LSP then opens a channel with the recipient and skips funding confirmation. Then it pays the recipient the second invoice and receives the preimage.
Once the preimage is received from the recipient, Breez settles the payment with the sender.
Breez funds the convenience of zero-conf channel creation by charging a fee.
sounds like breeze controls things so users dont have toBreez seamlessly opens channels as needed on-the-fly. Here's how it works:
When the recipient wants to receive a payment but lacks inbound capacity, their Breez app recognizes the lack and issues two invoices using the same preimage: one invoice is issued to the sender (requesting a payment) and a second is issued to the Breez LSP. The amount of the second invoice equals the amount requested from the payer minus a miniscule service fee to Breez for opening the channel the recipient requires. The invoice sent to the sender includes routing instructions, indicating a pseudo-channel between the recipient and the Breez node.
When the sender pays the invoice they received from the recipient, the Breez node intercepts the payment and holds it.
The Breez LSP then opens a channel with the recipient and skips funding confirmation. Then it pays the recipient the second invoice and receives the preimage.
Once the preimage is received from the recipient, Breez settles the payment with the sender.
Breez funds the convenience of zero-conf channel creation by charging a fee.
no where in that statement does it say the user drops in their own seed to create their own channels to self fund
Quote from: https://doc.breez.technology/Sending-coins.html
Using the sendcoins command
Please note that the functionality described here is best left to advanced users.
In some cases, like channel closures, users' funds might be deposited automatically into Breez's built-in (on-chain) Bitcoin wallet. If this occurs, we strongly recommend sending the funds to a secure BTC address as soon as possible. Breez offers an Unexpected Funds screen to facilitate this process.
Please note that the functionality described here is best left to advanced users.
In some cases, like channel closures, users' funds might be deposited automatically into Breez's built-in (on-chain) Bitcoin wallet. If this occurs, we strongly recommend sending the funds to a secure BTC address as soon as possible. Breez offers an Unexpected Funds screen to facilitate this process.
'breez's built in bitcoin wallet' = their custodian wallet
And I am not trying to suggest you run a node or do anything more than just use the lightning network in the way best for you. I believe fees are going to follow a trajectory much like the price and hashrate has. So doing mining as you do getting used to layer 2 strategies is going to become more and more important.
I apologize for the offtopic, but do you know of any way to run node LN on Windows? I've been looking and haven't found anything that I find interesting.
Oh. Also Fillippone's "Lightning Observer" thread is worth the time if you decide to fall all the way down the rabbit hole.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/lightning-network-observer-5348270
And one last thing. I have used every lightning network wallet that has ever been made (well... probably?) and I have also run both major lightning network nodes (LND and CL) since 2019. I know the stuff inside and out. I have even recovered nodes that have crahsed and burned due to hardware failure. I am glad to help or consult with you on any level needed if you have any questions or curiosities. Here or by PM, or SMS or even a phone call (though I hate phones).
And I am not trying to suggest you run a node or do anything more than just use the lightning network in the way best for you. I believe fees are going to follow a trajectory much like the price and hashrate has. So doing mining as you do getting used to layer 2 strategies is going to become more and more important.
I am also no slouch when it comes to Liquid, although neither are you since it is just Bitcoin's codebase (with part of Monero's privacy).
Anyway... do not hesitate.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/lightning-network-observer-5348270
And one last thing. I have used every lightning network wallet that has ever been made (well... probably?) and I have also run both major lightning network nodes (LND and CL) since 2019. I know the stuff inside and out. I have even recovered nodes that have crahsed and burned due to hardware failure. I am glad to help or consult with you on any level needed if you have any questions or curiosities. Here or by PM, or SMS or even a phone call (though I hate phones).
And I am not trying to suggest you run a node or do anything more than just use the lightning network in the way best for you. I believe fees are going to follow a trajectory much like the price and hashrate has. So doing mining as you do getting used to layer 2 strategies is going to become more and more important.
I am also no slouch when it comes to Liquid, although neither are you since it is just Bitcoin's codebase (with part of Monero's privacy).
Anyway... do not hesitate.
Congrats on learning to use the lightning network. It is currently Bitcoin's best scaling layer. And it works fairly well nowadays. Here are some small tips.
1. Several have mentioned Breez. You do not have to go to the trouble of running a node (though breez actually does run one on your phone). Breez works well, and is at least as easy as the things you have done so far. You just have to let it update to the network, then you can send it lightning transactions ad YOU actually hold the sats.
2. If you have a need to trade into or out of BTC/lightning/Liquid this is a good little non custodial exchange with great prices: https://boltz.exchange/
3. Wallet of Satoshi. It is custodial, but it is a great way to get used to doing lightning to and from your phone and gives you a lightning address. Mine is [email protected]. Sending to and from a lightning address is as easy as using email.
4. coinos.io (and classic.coinos.io) are great online custodial wallets with the ability to change from LN/BTC/Liquid.
Best of luck experimemting with lightning. It is the future. Don;t listen to franky, he is always mad.
1. Several have mentioned Breez. You do not have to go to the trouble of running a node (though breez actually does run one on your phone). Breez works well, and is at least as easy as the things you have done so far. You just have to let it update to the network, then you can send it lightning transactions ad YOU actually hold the sats.
2. If you have a need to trade into or out of BTC/lightning/Liquid this is a good little non custodial exchange with great prices: https://boltz.exchange/
3. Wallet of Satoshi. It is custodial, but it is a great way to get used to doing lightning to and from your phone and gives you a lightning address. Mine is [email protected]. Sending to and from a lightning address is as easy as using email.
4. coinos.io (and classic.coinos.io) are great online custodial wallets with the ability to change from LN/BTC/Liquid.
Best of luck experimemting with lightning. It is the future. Don;t listen to franky, he is always mad.
What about using muun for the LN wallet? https://muun.com/
You can send funds there and then use a service like robosats to cash out. robosats.com
No KYC or anything else.
-Dave
You can send funds there and then use a service like robosats to cash out. robosats.com
No KYC or anything else.
-Dave
Well kraken is a pain in the ass.
Nicehash is not bad and I am mining 1000 to 2000 a month into it every month.
I empty it at the end on the month. For me personally having the two is enough.
But I have an electrum I can show that here. Even if it is ten or more steps. It is self custody.
once I do the electrum. I will look into munn and robosats.
This thread will likely have legs as I do not see us under 50 sats a byte for a long time.
the transaction count for 100 sats is over 40000 so another day of high fees is on us.
What about using muun for the LN wallet? https://muun.com/
You can send funds there and then use a service like robosats to cash out. robosats.com
No KYC or anything else.
-Dave
You can send funds there and then use a service like robosats to cash out. robosats.com
No KYC or anything else.
-Dave
I went to double post to help loading as lots of photos.
step 13 close to done the address invoice matches the amounts match
step 14 you get a new email from kraken
"You made a new withdrawal
Your recent withdrawal to the lighting test address is now being processed.
The processing time for your withdrawal depends on the currency and withdrawal method you chose.
The request came from this source:
Location
United States
IP Address
xx.xxx.xxx.xxx
Didn't request a withdrawal?
In this case, your account might be at risk. Follow these steps immediately:
Access your account and change your password.
Contact our Support team. We'll check your account for any suspicious activity. "
Step 15
Last step ! go back to nicehash check for the deposit . yeah it is there and it cleared quickly cost was dirt cheap
Upside
This helps my mining business > I can move the nicehash mining funds to kraken dirt cheap and cash for mining bills.
Down Side
I do not control nicehash or kraken funds ------ freezes and theft is possible.
My coinbase account does not do LN
And I am not sure about binance.us
since I have them both I will figure out what they can do.
I also will need to play with electrum.
step 13 close to done the address invoice matches the amounts match
step 14 you get a new email from kraken
"You made a new withdrawal
Your recent withdrawal to the lighting test address is now being processed.
The processing time for your withdrawal depends on the currency and withdrawal method you chose.
The request came from this source:
Location
United States
IP Address
xx.xxx.xxx.xxx
Didn't request a withdrawal?
In this case, your account might be at risk. Follow these steps immediately:
Access your account and change your password.
Contact our Support team. We'll check your account for any suspicious activity. "
Step 15
Last step ! go back to nicehash check for the deposit . yeah it is there and it cleared quickly cost was dirt cheap
Upside
This helps my mining business > I can move the nicehash mining funds to kraken dirt cheap and cash for mining bills.
Down Side
I do not control nicehash or kraken funds ------ freezes and theft is possible.
My coinbase account does not do LN
And I am not sure about binance.us
since I have them both I will figure out what they can do.
I also will need to play with electrum.
Actually
I can list 5 groups that want the high fees.
and I can list 5 ways to drive fees to 1-3 btc a block
1) Scrypt merge mined LTC and Doge have a vested interest in high fees for BTC why because they have low fees and should get more business from high BTC fees.
2) Major miners and pools like foundry are looking at 6.25 reward dropping to 3.125 reward. And they clearly want fees to be over 2 coins per block.
3) people running LN nodes Nicehash is an example as I have shown
4) kraken gains by this as they are a bit harder to use but not so bad.
5) all taxing governments want you to do what I am showing as it is all KYC
I can list 5 groups that want the high fees.
and I can list 5 ways to drive fees to 1-3 btc a block
1) Scrypt merge mined LTC and Doge have a vested interest in high fees for BTC why because they have low fees and should get more business from high BTC fees.
2) Major miners and pools like foundry are looking at 6.25 reward dropping to 3.125 reward. And they clearly want fees to be over 2 coins per block.
3) people running LN nodes Nicehash is an example as I have shown
4) kraken gains by this as they are a bit harder to use but not so bad.
5) all taxing governments want you to do what I am showing as it is all KYC
1. those altcoins have been round for years. dont blame them for the latest promotions trying to trigger people to move over to LN
2. asic miners dont choose fee's they just hash.. they care more for market price to deflate to be worth more fiat per coin.. the fee is not the subsidy its just a side bonus
5 governments are not causing bitcoin fee mania
every time there is a halving IDIOTS!!! think its tim to pay stupid excess fee's to pools
pools ran fine when the market was at $17k per coin. working fine at $34k per coin and working fine at $42k+ per coin. all while the reward is still 6.25btc.. so dont blame the halving either
when the halving happens the fiat market price takes care of it. we dont need to worry abut fee income for many more halvings
the real reasons for wanting high fees is the silly idiots that cant make money using bitcoin the traditional way o have to scam their way into taking middlemen fee's promoting crappy stuff as the next big thing
Except we are heading in the wrong direction on the thread.
Back to kraken LN send was hard to do.
I did 7 steps above. and did not know what to do when the 7th step showed up.
But when I paid with nicehash the requestor sent me a long ass format address . SO I went nicehash I realize I had to ask kraken what I wanted.
went to nicehash wallet picked deposit picked LN and generated a long code
so step 9 below not done.
step 10 approve an email from your kraken account
"Confirm your new withdrawal address
A new withdrawal address was just added to your account. Check the details below and confirm it within the next 60 minutes only if you recognize it.
Location
United States
IP Address
**.***.***.***
Keep in mind that approving withdrawal addresses you don't recognize can put your funds at risk.
Confirm address
Didn't add this new address?
In this case, your account might be at high risk and you should Contact our Support team immediately."
step 11 for a first time only (I think)
step 12
Actually
I can list 5 groups that want the high fees.
and I can list 5 ways to drive fees to 1-3 btc a block
1) Scrypt merge mined LTC and Doge have a vested interest in high fees for BTC why because they have low fees and should get more business from high BTC fees.
2) Major miners and pools like foundry are looking at 6.25 reward dropping to 3.125 reward. And they clearly want fees to be over 2 coins per block.
3) people running LN nodes Nicehash is an example as I have shown
4) kraken gains by this as they are a bit harder to use but not so bad.
5) all taxing governments want you to do what I am showing as it is all KYC
I can list 5 groups that want the high fees.
and I can list 5 ways to drive fees to 1-3 btc a block
1) Scrypt merge mined LTC and Doge have a vested interest in high fees for BTC why because they have low fees and should get more business from high BTC fees.
2) Major miners and pools like foundry are looking at 6.25 reward dropping to 3.125 reward. And they clearly want fees to be over 2 coins per block.
3) people running LN nodes Nicehash is an example as I have shown
4) kraken gains by this as they are a bit harder to use but not so bad.
5) all taxing governments want you to do what I am showing as it is all KYC
1. those altcoins have been round for years. dont blame them for the latest promotions trying to trigger people to move over to LN
2. asic miners dont choose fee's they just hash.. they care more for market price to deflate to be worth more fiat per coin.. the fee is not the subsidy its just a side bonus
5 governments are not causing bitcoin fee mania
every time there is a halving IDIOTS!!! think its tim to pay stupid excess fee's to pools
pools ran fine when the market was at $17k per coin. working fine at $34k per coin and working fine at $42k+ per coin. all while the reward is still 6.25btc.. so dont blame the halving either
when the halving happens the fiat market price takes care of it. we dont need to worry abut fee income for many more halvings
the real reasons for wanting high fees is the silly idiots that cant make money using bitcoin the traditional way o have to scam their way into taking middlemen fee's promoting crappy stuff as the next big thing
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