Topic: So what is going on with Mt.Gox -> Dwolla. (Read 6132 times)

Thanks, Captain Obvious - I already trade there, hence my posts about my experience. I thought it would be obvious that by success I meant more business than just mine. 

I definitely give props to Bitfloor. I have moved my automated platform(s) from MTGox to Bitfloor finding it fairly painless.  The rates are far better than MTGox, especially to liquidity providers (.1% rebate instead of charging you between .3% and .8% like MTGox, so you can actually MAKE money on trades instead of lose it, even on a break even trade).

If I'm making an impression that I'm helplessly fighting  losing battle with MtGox, I'm not. All I'm trying to do is to be vocal about my concerns. It is one thing to have a problem, but much worse - to have a problem and not even speak of it.

That's why the OP of https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/mtgox-extortion-85938 wants his $100 back and is upset. MTGox tells him they need to verify in order to return the money since he used Dwolla. He sends in documentation that Dwolla would accept but MTGox asks for photo ID with unblurred id number, something the OP claims Dwolla doesn't require. MTGox hasn't addressed this main bone of contention.

As of now he can't take his $100 anywhere.

"I really hope Bitfloor is successful."

Don't just hope. Put action behind that hope. Trade there. BitFloor will be successful if enough people trade there. Vote with your bitcoins. Put your orders there, be they large or small. I've tried a lot of different exchanges. You need to check how you're going to get USD or other fiat currencies in and out of the exchange. If, after looking at the exchange, you like what you see, send a small amount or USD or BTC there and do a trade. If all goes OK, send more and repeat. Before you know it a new exchange has grown from nothing to a reliable alternative with good service. Follow that advice for BitFloor and the whole Bitcoin community will be better off IMHO.

And he charges 0 fees for the cash deposits, ING deposits, and for ACH withdrawal. That's long term thinking. I really hope Bitfloor is successful.

Totally agree.. While I have not had any bad experience with MTGOX, the P2P at BitFloor is very appealing and I have already begun to work my future trades through them because of this.

Stay on top of things or get left behind.

If you don't like the service that Mt Gox is giving you, take your business elsewhere. Personally, I've been trading at BitFloor lately. I can deposit USD via ING Direct Bank's P2P and withdraw USD via ACH to any checking account in the US. All for FREE! Plus most checking accounts have FDIC insurance, something that your USD balance in your Dwolla account doesn't have.

The fraud at Dwolla has caused a lot of headaches and chargebacks for the exchanges that use it. My solution is to skip Dwolla completely. There are other options to Dwolla (cash, check, money order, ACH, bank wire, ING Bank's P2P and Popmoney). And it you still want to use Dwolla, there are other BTC/USD exchanges besides Mt Gox such as CampBX and Intersango.

If you have BTC, just transfer them from Mt Gox to another exchange and sell them at the other exchange. If you have USD you may even want to bite the bullet and buy BTC with your USD and then transfer the BTC out of Mt Gox and give another exchange a try.

Competition is what keeps the level of service up. But if you get bad service and continue to do business with them, you deserve what you get.

What you said might be true, if I popped out of nothing, DWOLLA's a million bucks and then tried to wire them back next day, that would have definitely be something to take a note of.

But when your customer, who does transactions on a daily basis, for a year, requests a 100 bucks wire? Under circumstances that make it clear, why that happened (e.g.: outrageously long withdrawal times?). I think it's a pretty fishy thing when THAT gets delayed for a week.

Most companies keep their funds in this or another form of bank. The wire transfers should never be delayed if funds are available. This is why there's so much suspicion in this thread.

Another thing with DWOLLA transfers: as I said I've been verified with MtGox for a year. I sent them my ID a long time ago. What they did with it, I don't know, but now they canceled two of my DWOLLA transfers, citing their policy, and had me re-upload the documents AGAIN. And guess what - they didn't cancel it right away, instead they waited until the payout time. then they canceled it, then after I uploaded the documents, I'm back at the end of line.

All of it looks very fishy...

Dwolla may or may not have something to do with it.  It people are putting funds into MtGox via Dwolla and then rapidly trying to withdraw via wire transfer, that should definitely flag their system as potentially fraudulent/ML activity and trying to limit their exposure to potential reversals is not just reasonable but essential to the best interests of all customers.  A lot of payment processors won't let you withdraw money via a method you haven't previously used to fund your account and the exchanges may very well end up having to put such restrictions in place eventually just to stay in business.

"That indeed is a nice theory, and it is well possible that it is a correct one. But how does it explain that wire transfers are also taking many days? Dwolla has nothing to do with it"

Perhaps they don't have many USD available in general for withdrawals, regardless of the transfer method. These delays are concerning. I've thought of selling some BTC at Mt Gox but these delays have me more concerned about the return OF my money than the return ON my money through some small arbitrage opportunity.

That indeed is a nice theory, and it is well possible that it is a correct one. But how does it explain that wire transfers are also taking many days? Dwolla has nothing to do with it

I'm pretty sure that the relations between MtGox and Dwolla are currently strained to the point that Gox believes their Dwolla account is going to get locked/stolen/deactivated any day now.

Normally an exchange needs to keep a balance at Dwolla in order to have fast transactions; when you withdraw from the exchange, you're actually getting part of this "MtGox deposit at Dwolla" immediately while, behind the scenes, MtGox makes a (slower) deposit/wire to Dwolla to replace the funds (unless counterbalanced by somebody else depositing to MtGox via Dwolla).

When things break down, the way to CYA is the following: Gox waits until "pending" oubound Dwolla transfers from its users equals its deposit at Dwolla.  Then, it puts all "pending" orders in a queue and processes only as many orders as it can without causing the {sum of value of all pending outbound transfers} to fall below {value of deposit at Dwolla}.

The upshot is this: if Dwolla seizes/freezes/goxes MtGox's account, MtGox can immediately release the queue of pending transfers -- perhaps even post them publicly with suitable anonymization -- and credibly claim that the money Dwolla stole actually belonged to those Dwolla customers.  Gox's hands are clean and the problem becomes Dwolla's to deal with.  Customers are upset at Dwolla, not Gox.  MtGox can even claim they entered those payments into Dwolla's system just moments before the account was frozen -- from the customer perspective, it's a "he said, she said".

All of this is speculative, but this is what I'd do if I were MtGox, and the visible effects on users would be exactly what we're seeing right now.  MtGox has shifted the risk of counterparty exposure to Dwolla from itself to those users making withdrawals via Dwolla.

Because you can't use paypal to buy currencies.  Doesn't matter if it's bitcoins or euros or krona.  Paypal can't be used to buy currencies.

That certainly confirms the theory (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/my-observations-and-mtgox-beware-of-those-who-hold-payouts-84634) that MtGox did something with incoming dollar funds, other than hold on to them, and now they don't have enough to cover withdrawals

The situation seems pretty messed up. We [bitcoin community, and especially businesses] desperately need a trade system that does not rely on several too-big-to-fail actors. I am starting to work on a new project - www.bitcontract.org - reputation tracker. Hopefully we would eventually be able to safely trade p2p using reputation, and not be bound to a handful big companies.

+1 to freshzive.  quick and easy.

Still have $200 Dwollars to trade for MG-USD.  Asking 2% premium (i.e. you = $100 Dwollars, me = $012 MG-USD).

Made a trade with D&T. Very smooth, cheers.

I've got upto 100 Dwolla at +1.5%

I think about 7-9 business days.  I got one going on 5 days now.

If you need it faster have Mt.Gox cancel it and I have up to $300 in Dwollars I will trade you for MtGoxUSD.  2% premium for instant delivery (i.e. $102 MtGox for me, $100 Dwolla for you).  PM me if interested.

So how long is Mtgox->Dwolla taking these days? Started a transfer yesterday morning, still at "Status: preparing". Argh.

Well don't make the idiotic mistake I did.  After Dwolla was delayed 7 days (plus 2 more to bank) I said well I should just pay the higher fee and go with the speed of an international wire.   

Mt.Gox International Wire = just as slow as Dwolla but they charge you 50x as much.  

wasn't that holiday the first week of April?

Agree, but that 5% fee is pretty steep for a new guy to swallow... why pay 5% for this when paypal is "free" kind of thing. I'm not knocking the suggestion, it's just that this guy wants to see how it works - he wont even let me sell him any Bitcoins... so for an introduction to bitcoin, this is complete garbage now. I can't even imagine what a total noob would do on their own trying figure it out on their own these days.

Use Bitinstant with some cash!

I'm trying to walk my coworker through signing up at dwolla and mtgox so he can buy some bitcoins... I gotta say, this process is a huge bucket of shit.

I received mine today the 14th. It was sent on the 8th.

I got the same answer also. They offered to cancel it if I wanted. I hope they get this worked out soon.

I had to wait 7 weeks before I received funds from Mtgox.  I initiated a wire which was rejected by their bank 2 weeks later.  Mtgox asked me to make the same transfer again and it would be processed.  I did.  2 weeks later the second wire xfer was rejected by their bank.  I was asked to open a new local bank account, which I did.  I then initiated a 3rd bank wire.  The funds hit my account yesterday, 12 days after the 3rd wire xfer.  I was also told I was at fault for not knowing their policy.

Alternatively, on Monday I made a Western Union transfer from spendbitcoins and the transfer was processed on the same day.

5 days for me to get the transfer done.  MT.Gox Customer service always promptly replied to my questions.

Ah, just noticed that MtGox customer support replied back to me, and I quote:

I transferred $750 Monday evening and it still hasn't shown up in my Dwolla account.

Anyone know what the current delay time is?

Not sure if there is any faster method but if you contact Mt.Gox and ask them to cancel it they will and return the funds to your account.

I wish I had seen this first. I sent Dwolla 1k the other day to use for my daughters B-Day in a few days. They have always been extremely quick for me. MT.GOX to Dwolla in a few hours and to my bank in 1 business day.I hope this is temporary or else i will be forced to see what else is available.

Thanks.  Maybe need to look into that.
If nothing else I think I need to spread my volume around to other exchanges.

Cryptoxchange also looks decent but I dislike how they call $5 + 0.6% a "flat $5" transfer.    That wouldn't be my definition of "flat".

I just sent a small wire from Mt.Gox as a test.  Looks like it is $25 (2000Y) fee plus my bank fee ($16) + any interim bank fees.  Wonder how much I will be burned.  $41 total isn't too bad on $10K but if the interim fees double that well it starts to get prohibitive real quick.

I don't know if it's any "best alternative" but I've been using Intersango>Dwolla lately and it's been working very well.
Withdraws to Dwolla are near instant and then it's been taking approx 24hrs to reach my bank account from Dwolla.
All my transactions are kept under 1K and Dwolla has never required me to link with any "social" crap either but I think that has more to do with deposits than withdrawals.
Just my experience.

 

I have noticed longer and longer times as well.  This is a little scary since these transactions are the heart of my business.  I would hate to think I have thousands of dollars trapped in Mt.Gox.  What is the best alternative?

Ok my tx finally went through today.  It only took 6 days (plus another estimated 3 to hit my bank account).  So I guess Dwolla is now slightly slower than mailing a physical check but still works.

same here, used to the 1-2 hours max to deposit to dwolla and than a 3 week delay but team mtgox may it all right I guess..... three weeks later but I'm just happy they did

OK, xfer finally went through.

My withdrawal from the 3rd came through today.

Holy crap. I just realized they are holding on to 3.5K of withdrawals! And I was trying to understand where is all my cash gone  

Why is it always happening - the moment I think I can relax with those folks, they are getting me into another trouble

Weird they seem to be processing tx "out of order".

Requested Withdrawal on the 1st (Tuesday) and it is now the 8th (Tuesday). Still no funds Dwolla side yet. 

Requested last Tuesday, arrived Monday.  I'm hoping now that their holiday is over we'll see them catch up a bit better.  A week delay isn't too bad in my case, though there is still the 2 day wait for it to hit my bank account after it gets to Dwolla.

mufa23 - Sent Friday - Shows Tuesday
tgmarks - Sent Wed/Thur - Shows Monday
D&T - Sent Thursday - No Show

How that hell did that happen?

Mine was about the same.  I sent it wednesday or thursday and received it on monday.

Just got an email from Dwolla saying that I now have the money in my account. Just signed in, money was there. Just sent it to my Bank.

So I sent the money Friday, didn't show up until Tuesday (5 days, 3 Business Days). It says it should be in my bank by Friday the 11th at 5pm CST.

Anyone else have success?

Doh!  Sorry.  Fixed.

I'm in the same boat and this is stinking ridiculous.  Wish I had found this thread earlier.

Hey, you incorrectly quoted me.

Here's a thread specifically for those wishing to trade MTGUSD redeemable codes for Dwolla and vice-versa.

 - https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/usd-between-mtgox-dwolla-78512

what going on?

Working on it.

MtGox Dwolla Delays- It's a mixture of them not having enough USD in their American accounts to cover Dwolla / The week long Japanese holiday / Uptake in withdrawals via Dwolla / Dwolla imposing new limits and difficulties for merchants / Not sure what else.

The fact of the matter, right now, withdrawals are still being processed- even if it's taking 2 weeks or so. Hopefully the delays will thin out over the next few weeks.

Alright, so let cut to the chase.

I assume we are all in this thread because our money (USD) is currently frozen, right? Lets talk other options from getting money from MtGox to our bank accounts (and vice versa). Does Liberty Reserve do the same thing Dwolla can do? Prices/Fees? Wait time? Is there another proxy we can use until Dwolla is back online?

The last word on the support announcement:

Update (28/4/2012): Dwolla transfers are still delayed. While any outstanding withdrawals will be processed, transfers will happen at a significantly reduced speed. Any users who are concerned about their withdrawal are encouraged to contact Mt.Gox Support, and if so desired, cancel their withdrawal.

 - https://support.mtgox.com/entries/21290798-dwolla-delays

The wording of that (and an earlier status) makes it appear not be that Mt. Gox isn't willing to transfer sufficient cash to Dwolla but that Dwolla has limits as to how much of transfers they are allowed to perform.


There was a SINGLE report of that, and that single incident was resolved two days within a week after it was reported.
 - https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.869301

ok, they are back up. 

http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/dwolla.com

Dwolla is down for me and everyone else right now. 

It seems that anything in Dwolla that touches MtGox is subject to major delays. I don't know in this case whether the delay is due to lack of funds in MtGox's Dwolla account, or whether Dwolla is purposely delaying things, but I honestly suspect the latter. There have been reports of Dwolla users sending funds to other Dwolla users after withdrawing from MtGox, and being subjected to several day delays, instead of it being instant as usual.

Would be nice to know, I have a scheduled withdrawal happening on the 14th and would like to know the delay.

I sent USD from MtGox to Dwolla on the 2nd. Still waiting for it to show up in Dwolla. Not sure if this is a Dwolla problem, or MtGox problem.

Same thing with me. I withdrew to Dwolla on the 3rd and have yet to see anything on Dwolla's side. Mt. Gox does show it as confirmed so I'm hoping thats a good sign.

Anyone else sees massive delays.

It use to be 1-2 hours, then it turned into a couple hours, then a lot of hours but usually the same day.  My most recent tx was 3 days ago and hasn't shown up in Dwolla.  

Mt.Gox customer support is clueless as usual.  Anyone else having problem?

Hey Mt.Gox here is an idea if you DON'T HAVE THE FUNDS TO ALLOW A DWOLLA WITHDRAWAL ..... DRUMROLL .... DON'T FUCKING OFFER A DWOLLA WITHDRAWAL!

I would rather see "no funds available for Dwolla withdrawal.  Estimated delays 3-5 days" than a "withdrawal" button which does nothing and keeps my funds locked up in limbo.